1948 8N with a series 100 Du-al loader problem

warewolf43

New User
Hey guys,
first time posting so please be gentle ;)
we bought an old 8n that ran pretty well for use on our small farm, came with a Du-al loader (which was a big part of the reason for the purchase) which worked real well for about three weeks until the one day we really needed it for moving 20 yards of manure. I drove it into the pile, rotated the bucket up and a loud screech/bang came from the front of the motor.
I was a tad bit concerned cuz i thought i had broken the motor, but everything was running fine will i tried to raise the loader assembly up to dump out the load and nothing happened, i tried the down lever, that worked cuz i was bleeding pressure obviously. Thought maybe i had blown the hydraulic pump up, nope, took that off and apart and everything was fine. I finally got the loader assembly removed and was able to pull the sheetmetal, and front mount off the tractor and STILL didnt find anything wrong other than the shaft had fallen out someplace on the 40 damn acres we have. So i guess my question is this: what could be causing my problem? the sahft adapter plate i pulled off the crankshaft pully doesnt look broken or worn out, but i cannot find an identical one anywhere for reference.

thanks in advance for any help y'all can offer
 
(quoted from post at 19:21:51 11/09/16) Hey guys,
first time posting so please be gentle ;)
we bought an old 8n that ran pretty well for use on our small farm, came with a Du-al loader (which was a big part of the reason for the purchase) which worked real well for about three weeks until the one day we really needed it for moving 20 yards of manure. I drove it into the pile, rotated the bucket up and a loud screech/bang came from the front of the motor.
I was a tad bit concerned cuz i thought i had broken the motor, but everything was running fine will i tried to raise the loader assembly up to dump out the load and nothing happened, i tried the down lever, that worked cuz i was bleeding pressure obviously. Thought maybe i had blown the hydraulic pump up, nope, took that off and apart and everything was fine. I finally got the loader assembly removed and was able to pull the sheetmetal, and front mount off the tractor and STILL didnt find anything wrong other than the shaft had fallen out someplace on the 40 damn acres we have. So i guess my question is this: what could be causing my problem? the sahft adapter plate i pulled off the crankshaft pully doesnt look broken or worn out, but i cannot find an identical one anywhere for reference.

thanks in advance for any help y'all can offer

That's a Woods Bro's loader and should have a model number on it somewhere. Post a picture of the hub you took off and maybe someone can help. There should have been a flexible coupler of some sort that connects the missing shaft to the pump. Is your coupler MIA as well???? Woods seemed to like roller chain couplers.....

Push come to shove you can roll your own using "standard" parts.

TOH
 
42389.jpg

Here's the adapter plate, but there's no other rubber insulator plate to be found. This plate has a 275 cast into it and a zerk fitting.[/img]
 
(quoted from post at 20:44:58 11/09/16)
Here's the adapter plate, but there's no other rubber insulator plate to be found. This plate has a 275 cast into it and a zerk fitting.

From the looks of the splines it has been wobbling a bit. My guess is something came apart hard. That hub is a Du-Al specific part - again a model number would be helpful. How/where is the pump mounted - picture if possible. The "standard" loader drive on the N-series is a 3/4" six spline hub and shaft:

Crankshaft pulley - 192160
Hub - 192161
Shaft - 194354
Shaft coupler - L601-9 or L601-14

Total for the complete rig is about $200-$225

TOH
 
Oops sorry about that, here are pics of the id plate on the loader, and a couple of how the pump was mounted to the tractor.

42390.jpg
42391.jpg
42392.jpg
 
Dan, the pump and drive assembly isn't DuAl, but rather a Char-Lynn K-302-C.

I don't know if DuAl sold those Char-Lynn kits along with the loaders, or if it would have come from a tractor dealer set up to sell the various kits Char-Lynn had to install live hydraulics on a multitude of tractors.

It is NOT shown in detail in the parts list for the "100" loader.

When it was first installed, the pump shaft came in three pieces, the front and back shaft with splines, part #273, and a sleeve, part #278.

The installer was directed to adjust the length to allow for a small amount of fore and aft movement (1/16", IIRC), and then was instructed to BRAZE the three pieces together!

The rubber parts, part #20852 which might appear to be coupling "spiders" are actually rubber boots to seal the splined shaft-to-coupling area, which the installer was supposed to put grease in, then slip the boots into place. And now you know "The Rest of The Story"!

If I read the original post correctly, he's lost the shaft, which I don't see how it could get out of place maybe it broke apart???

Wolf, Char-Lynn is now a part of Eaton, and IDK if there's any possibility some parts might still be available through any of their resellers.

<img src = "http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u125/27Grainfield/N%20Ford/Char-Lynn_zpsyozdyjjf.jpg">
 
ONE other thing, if maybe he lost the shaft driving it with the pump removed and the shaft was intact???

If so, the pin, part #20343 might have sheared. At original installation, the installer was to drill though the existing hole in the new pulley, into the front face of the crankshaft "snout", then install the pin to key the pulley to the crank.

That might have been the original problem... the pin sheared and the pulley stopped when a load was put on the pump.
 
(quoted from post at 04:00:28 11/10/16) Dan, the pump and drive assembly isn't DuAl, but rather a Char-Lynn K-302-C.

I don't know if DuAl sold those Char-Lynn kits along with the loaders, or if it would have come from a tractor dealer set up to sell the various kits Char-Lynn had to install live hydraulics on a multitude of tractors.

It is NOT shown in detail in the parts list for the "100" loader.

When it was first installed, the pump shaft came in three pieces, the front and back shaft with splines, part #273, and a sleeve, part #278.

The installer was directed to adjust the length to allow for a small amount of fore and aft movement (1/16", IIRC), and then was instructed to BRAZE the three pieces together!

The rubber parts, part #20852 which might appear to be coupling "spiders" are actually rubber boots to seal the splined shaft-to-coupling area, which the installer was supposed to put grease in, then slip the boots into place. And now you know "The Rest of The Story"!

If I read the original post correctly, he's lost the shaft, which I don't see how it could get out of place maybe it broke apart???

Wolf, Char-Lynn is now a part of Eaton, and IDK if there's any possibility some parts might still be available through any of their resellers.

&lt;img src = "http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u125/27Grainfield/N%20Ford/Char-Lynn_zpsyozdyjjf.jpg"&gt;

Thanks Bob,

That pump mount looks eerily similar to one I devised a while back. Same general idea with a different shaft design. I am in the process of making one for another customer right now. Perhaps I ran across that Char-Lynn diagram somewhere and it lodged in the back of my brain and I didn't realize it ;-) Like you I can't see how that shaft could escape unless it was in pieces :roll:

TOH

IMG_2141.jpg
 

Bob, first and foremost: Thankyou!
that diagram helps me understand how this thing went together and then how it failed. Yes, i did leave the shaft in the axle tube assembly because no matter what i did i couldnt get it out without completely disassembling things when i still needed the tractor to bush hog the whole property. the shaft did subsequently fall out someplace on the property, so i get to hunt for that. part #20343 has been non existent for a long time cuz i found both pin locator holes packed with prairie grease. the adapter sleeve part #278 was missing as well or another shaft was used. The adapter collar on the pump end is still attached to the pump so im good there. the dust/grease boots are missing (or disintegrated )
all in all i think i can figure what happened. the slip collar failed and/or broke the pins which caused the bang/screech sound which in turn caused the pump to quit circulating, hence the loss of power.

Thank you again for helping out to both TOH and Bob!
 
Check to be sure a hole has been drilled in the front of the crank and the 1/4" pin installed, see (Step 5).

The replacement pulley doesn't get to grab much of the woodruff key in the crankshaft, and I still think your original problem MAY have been the pulley not being driven by the crankshaft while under load from the pump.

<img src = "http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u125/27Grainfield/N%20Ford/pin_zpsrkpfytub.jpg">
 

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