Marvel TSX Question

Re. the correct idle adjust needle . . .
Did the TSX come with the 30 degree point on the Idle Adjust Screw Needle or the 15 degree point . . . or did they vary?

I'm about put in a kit and want to be sure I don't repeat someone else's possible error by just replacing the needle with the same one as the one I remove.

Or is it obvious which needle tip is required by just looking in at the seat?

Thanks,
T

Never seen them sold by angle, just use correct part number for carb being rebuilt.

(quoted from post at 12:55:53 09/29/16) Never seen them sold by angle, just use correct part number for carb being rebuilt.

Click to expand...

No part numbers on these two new needles.

The kit came with two needles and a note saying to be sure to use the one identical to the one I remove . . . which I'm about to do, so I was just working from the safe point of being sure that what I pull out was the correct one to begin with.

I've rebuilt carbs as we all have where several mistakes were made by the previous rebuilder.

I can hear my email beeping from the shop stereo.

Thanks,
Terry

If you have problems with it running with one , try the other.

Mr. Geiger,

It has been running rich and giving it more air didn't help.

I removed the throttle shaft and I'm stuck again.
the kit has a felt seal and a rubber one. (?)

The felt one fits in the recess of the retainer, the rubber one doesn't.

Is the retainer that's pressed in now, correct with open side out?

Should I use the felt or the rubber?

Thanks,
Terry

i DO BELIEVE THE FELT ONE IS FOR THE CHOKE SHAFT AND THE RUBBER ONE IS FOR THE THROTTLE SHAFT.

(quoted from post at 15:28:43 09/29/16) i DO BELIEVE THE FELT ONE IS FOR THE CHOKE SHAFT AND THE RUBBER ONE IS FOR THE THROTTLE SHAFT.

Click to expand...

I hate carb kit instructions.

This YT Kit printed sheet shows no numbered parts at all in the exploded view for the Choke shaft assembly.

But for the throttle shaft:

Part 21: RETAINER- THROTTLE SHAFT SEAL
Part 22: SEAL (FELT) - THROTTLE SHAFT
Part 22A SEAL (RUBBER) THROTTLE SHAFT

The exploded view shows the numbers 22 and 22A BOTH
together and with the arrow pointing to the seal which could be rubber or felt -- can't tell by the picture. How useless is that
for instructing someone who has never put a kit in one of these!!

My best guess is that the 22A (rubber) is a REVISION -- an improvement over the felt.

Thanks,
Terry

(quoted from post at 18:51:43 09/29/16)

(quoted from post at 15:28:43 09/29/16) i DO BELIEVE THE FELT ONE IS FOR THE CHOKE SHAFT AND THE RUBBER ONE IS FOR THE THROTTLE SHAFT.

Click to expand...

I hate carb kit instructions.

This YT Kit printed sheet shows no numbered parts at all in the exploded view for the Choke shaft assembly.

But for the throttle shaft:

Part 21: RETAINER- THROTTLE SHAFT SEAL
Part 22: SEAL (FELT) - THROTTLE SHAFT
Part 22A SEAL (RUBBER) THROTTLE SHAFT

The exploded view shows the numbers 22 and 22A BOTH
together and with the arrow pointing to the seal which could be rubber or felt -- can't tell by the picture. How useless is that
for instructing someone who has never put a kit in one of these!!

My best guess is that the 22A (rubber) is a REVISION -- an improvement over the felt.

Thanks,
Terry

Click to expand...

Hey Terry, Mr. Geiger is right. When possible the rubber lip seal goes on the throttle shaft.
Lip in, brass cup out side of it as shown in your picture.
Obviously the old brass cup and seal have to come out first.

I have ran into many that did not have an original bore deep enough for the rubber seal and the cup,
and even more that had a bushing installed that didn't allow it to fit.
On a few of those I have used the felt seal. I don't care for it.

There should have been two felt seals, the other for the choke shaft.
The choke shaft seal is really more of a dust seal.
Fits in the hole behind a smaller brass cup.

On the air adjustment, remember that these work backwards.
In for a richer mixture, out for more air.
Knowing this isn't your first rodeo, it may be easy to forget that.
Best of luck!

(quoted from post at 15:51:43 09/29/16)

(quoted from post at 15:28:43 09/29/16) i DO BELIEVE THE FELT ONE IS FOR THE CHOKE SHAFT AND THE RUBBER ONE IS FOR THE THROTTLE SHAFT.

Click to expand...

I hate carb kit instructions.

This YT Kit printed sheet shows no numbered parts at all in the exploded view for the Choke shaft assembly.

But for the throttle shaft:

Part 21: RETAINER- THROTTLE SHAFT SEAL
Part 22: SEAL (FELT) - THROTTLE SHAFT
Part 22A SEAL (RUBBER) THROTTLE SHAFT

The exploded view shows the numbers 22 and 22A BOTH
together and with the arrow pointing to the seal which could be rubber or felt -- can't tell by the picture. How useless is that
for instructing someone who has never put a kit in one of these!!

My best guess is that the 22A (rubber) is a REVISION -- an improvement over the felt.

Thanks,
Terry

Click to expand...

put the Y/T kit in my M/S carb about a month ago. I admit it wasn't the best instructional diagram I've seen. The hardest part for me was lining up the choke plate. After all was said and done and the carb was back on the tractor I've never heard it run so smooth. Before all I did was ajust and readjust that thing ever 30 minutes. I haven't touched it since the rebuild.

Hi Royse,

Was hoping you'd make an appearance.

You wrote:

[color=darkblue:26bdb40d5a]I have ran into many that did not have an original bore deep enough for the rubber seal and the cup,
and even more that had a bushing installed that didn't allow it to fit.
On a few of those I have used the felt seal. I don't care for it.[/color:26bdb40d5a]

I see. Because of the way they have the rubber and felt in the same spot on the exploded view, They may be allowing for the variances you speak of. So I'll see how the rubber fits and yes, open lip side in.

[color=darkblue:26bdb40d5a]There should have been two felt seals, the other for the choke shaft.[/color:26bdb40d5a]

Not that I can see but I'll look again. Maybe that's what I get for getting the inexpensive kit.

[color=darkblue:26bdb40d5a]The choke shaft seal is really more of a dust seal.
Fits in the hole behind a smaller brass cup.[/color:26bdb40d5a]

Right thanks.

[color=darkblue:26bdb40d5a]On the air adjustment, remember that these work backwards.
In for a richer mixture, out for more air.
Knowing this isn't your first rodeo, it may be easy to forget that.[/color:26bdb40d5a]

that much I've always known.

Can you explain again the plug in the bottom center of the bowl? This one looks like someone put some sealant in the recess around the edge. (?) I'm inclined to leave it alone but wondering if i should scrape away whatever is stuck to it.

So far:
• A kind of poorly cut bowl gasket
• Flat washer missing on power needle
• Float level incorrect by half (1/8" excessive drop)
• Needle seat not tight enough
* Main nozzle not snug enough
• Broken choke return spring (typical I know) but I fixed it with the spring wire that was left. I know I don't really need it.

Thanks much!
Terry

"Can you explain again the plug in the bottom center of the bowl?"

I circled the sintered bronze strainer in the picture below.
It's purpose is to let gas drip out when the carb gets flooded
and to keep dust/dirt/bugs out the rest of the time.

Sometimes people had trouble with their carb flooding so gas
would drip out of that "hole" (as it should), but folks mistakenly
thought the hole was the problem and sealed it with RTV, etc.

On some models there was just a metal disc there holding in
some fiber. No bronze strainer. Purpose is the same though.

Perfect explanation Royse; thanks!

I was going to say "sintered screen", but then I went and looked up "sintered" and concluded that I might be misusing the word.

Terry

Royse,

I'm not sure if what I did was unconventional or not but after installing the rubber cup until it seated, I saw that there would be excessive space between the outside of that seal and the brass plug. I didn't want to punch the brass inward until it touched the rubber to keep it square so I installed the felt seal behind it which left the perfect space for the brass plug to be flush with the outside of the boss but bearing slightly on the felt.

In the kit diagram it actually looks like what I did was supposed to be the game plan because as you can see part 22 (rubber) and 22A (felt) are shown together with no special notes regarding that.

Without the felt backing the rubber seal would have been too free to move in the bore.

So the felt is serving to fill the gap and serving as a dust seal also adding to shaft alignment stability.

Anyway . . . the throttle shaft feels like new and the Jube is running smoothly. My idle mix needle is now functional, because reduction of air flow now stops the engine from loping (too lean and it lopes, too rich and it surges).

I razor knifed off the small sized pipes (stepped down) on that fuel filter for the best flow through and it shows. I have a screen in the carb inlet now and was going to go continuous steel line but the new line I have is too long . . . so later maybe.

Fumes from the crankcase breather not smelling toxic anymore.

Thanks all for the support,
Terry

In my opinion, definitely unconventional. I don't think I've
ever seen one with a bore deep enough to accept both seals.
If anything, I have to use an end mill to increase depth when
they have been fitted with a brass bushing to get the seal in.

However, I don't see any harm in doing it that way if they fit
unless it leaves the side of your throttle rod support too weak.
Which probably doesn't matter at this point because it was
already that way and short of an extensive project, it is - as is.

I'm not a fan of the plastic filters and hoses but at least on a
Jubilee they are not right out in front of the manifold to get
heated and/or ripped off like on an N series.
Since yours ran rich to begin with, I doubt it was the issue.

Glad to hear it is running well again!

"I'm not a fan of the plastic filters and hoses but at least on a
Jubilee they are not right out in front of the manifold to get
heated and/or ripped off like on an N series."

my inline filter might as well be in the vault at fort knox, in comparison to the unspeakable vertical exhaust :shock:

(quoted from post at 23:12:51 09/30/16)
"I'm not a fan of the plastic filters and hoses but at least on a
Jubilee they are not right out in front of the manifold to get
heated and/or ripped off like on an N series."

my inline filter might as well be in the vault at fort knox, in comparison to the unspeakable vertical exhaust :shock:

Click to expand...

Maybe the vertical exhaust would protect it a bit?
Depends on how you have it ran I guess.

I backed my Farmall BN into the garage one day and forgot
to pull the vertical muffler off first. Do you suppose it bent
the muffler? Oh heck no! Snapped the manifold clean in two.

My 960 and one of the Jubes have vertical exhausts.
I can't say that I'm a fan of the noise or the showers.
All three now have short mufflers so as not to hit the door.

I always hated that exhaust when mowing under/around trees.
However I appreciate it when I have to hook implements to
the 3pt hitch at the rear of the tractor.

My JD 2 cylinder has a vertical exhaust too but it doesn't
bug me a bit. Not sure if it is the long hood or just the norm
of listening to that 2 cylinder Johnnie-popping engine but it
doesn't give me a shower when I start it cold.

All of them have Marvel Schebler carbs on them. :lol:

(quoted from post at 20:12:51 09/30/16)
"I'm not a fan of the plastic filters and hoses but at least on a
Jubilee they are not right out in front of the manifold to get
heated and/or ripped off like on an N series."

my inline filter might as well be in the vault at fort knox, in comparison to the unspeakable vertical exhaust :shock:

Click to expand...

HFJ
As well as getting a Round-to-it
I needed a double flaring tool today
I would have eliminated that filter.

My friend has that tool, that he lends me once in a blue moon.

I'm thinking of a Rube Goldberg crankcase breather stack . . .
Unless I go propane
The question "Why Propane?'
Is a real engineering no brainer
But too bad how the tank detracts from the tractor.

"Maybe the vertical exhaust would protect it a bit?"

that's possible. but you'll have to ask someone who still has a vertical exhaust

(quoted from post at 23:43:10 09/30/16)

(quoted from post at 20:12:51 09/30/16)
"I'm not a fan of the plastic filters and hoses but at least on a
Jubilee they are not right out in front of the manifold to get
heated and/or ripped off like on an N series."

my inline filter might as well be in the vault at fort knox, in comparison to the unspeakable vertical exhaust :shock:

Click to expand...

HFJ
As well as getting a Round-to-it
I needed a double flaring tool today
I would have eliminated that filter.

My friend has that tool, that he lends me once in a blue moon.

I'm thinking of a Rube Goldberg crankcase breather stack . . .
Unless I go propane
The question "Why Propane?'
Is a real engineering no brainer
But too bad how the tank detracts from the tractor.

Click to expand...

Around here, a permanently mounted propane tank means
a fuel delivery charge or a tractor ride to a filling station.
An option may be to mount a forklift style tank elsewhere
and leave the original look as is. Then just take the tank in.
Obviously rules vary by location.

"Around here, a permanently mounted propane tank means
a fuel delivery charge or a tractor ride to a filling station.
An option may be to mount a forklift style tank elsewhere
and leave the original look as is."

Ya, I've always like the forklift style where you can unstrap the tank.

Maybe one day I'll lay a tank where the Jube hood hole is -- I have a complete setup now that I took out of a Lada. 2 miles to the propane dealers. Apparently, it's only $40 per year to license (insurance) the tractor for the road's here.

Remember I mentioned Russ, the highway maintenance 30 year equipment mechanic, who helped me retrieve my tires after my rims episode? Well, he passed me going into the auto parts store and says, "well I believe you now!" I asked him what he was referring to and he said, "Propane . . . I took the heads off a 350 Chev with 150,000 miles on it and there was only a barely perceptible cylinder wall ridge. He might have said, "no ridge" I can't remember.

No more wet fuels washing oil from the upper walls

just CO2 and Water Vapor in the exhaust.
The plants will thank you for the CO2!
Plants in the field would grow bigger and stronger
if the tractors doing the cultivating are running propane or natural gas.

Endless hours spraying them with what they need the most, CO2. Plants love CO2 and need it every bit as much as we need oxygen. Big operation would just get their own propane storage tank.

Be nice to not have to have the mercaptan (sp) that they put in the propane for smell detection.

Cheers,
The Giraffe Whisperer

the pieman at the market calls me that.

Steve,

Glad your rebuild was a success too.

How deep was the throttle shaft seal recess on your carb?

Mine was deep enough and perfectly so, that when I installed the rubber seal until it bottomed out on the shoulder, there was a lot of space between the installed seal and brass retainer (when pressed in flush with the surface of the carb body).

Before pressing the retainer I tested that white felt washer in the YT kit and it PERFECTLY filled the gap between rubber and I could see that when the retainer was pressed in it would even pressurize the felt and in so doing make the felt snugger on the shaft and acting as the rubber seal stabilizer and DUST seal to keep dirt away from the rubber seal and shaft.

I used silglyde grease on the shaft, rubber and white felt ring - - - so the felt can also act as a lubricator and will soak up any future lubricant squirted at the shaft end.

Because of the depth of that bore, I would have had to do something to take up the free space in there, and the felt became what I think is the perfect solution and maybe the intended use for the white felt. Without the felt in there too, all the brass cup would have been was a bore end plug and not really a seal "retainer" keeping the rubber seal square to the bore.

How can you tell I'm glad I made that decision.
My rubber seal has an added stabilizing backup dust seal.