8N 3 point lift

Caryc

Well-known Member
While doing some work yesterday on my 1950 side mount 8N, my lift quit working. I removed the dip stick plate and discover that my quadrant lever was not moving my control valve very much. With the tractor running, I could reach in there with a wrench and push the control rod forward and the lift would work.

After removing the top cover I found a bent control rod as you can see in the pics below. There was a lot of discussion when I said I had an 8N with no draft/position control switch lever on it. In other words is probably a 2N top cover.

Yes I did have position control. What you see in the pics is what was inside that top cover. Now ai have to figure out how to get that control rod off to straighten it if it can be done.

While I have that top cover off, I plan to put in a new NAA piston and a new relief valve. I see no need to remove the pump at this time. I'll just drain it and clean out the sump as best I can. It looks like that dowel pin just doesn't do anything any more.

Any advice I should know about before doing any of this? Should I use a gasket sealer on the new top cover gasket?

DSC03717_zpsoilohdpn.jpg

DSC03718_zpspnbm7hok.jpg

DSC03719_zpstgphgtmt.jpg

DSC03720_zpsgc6yjbnn.jpg

DSC03721_zpsi41pjst4.jpg
 
Forgot to ask.

Anybody got a nice straight control rod they would be willing to sell me? Or know where to get one?
 
Sorry, I do not have a spare. But I would be asking myself, how did it get bent and what is going to keep it from happening again? It can be straightened, but be careful with too much pounding or that small end will break off.
 
(quoted from post at 12:38:14 09/22/16) Sorry, I do not have a spare. But I would be asking myself, how did it get bent and what is going to keep it from happening again? It can be straightened, but be careful with too much pounding or that small end will break off.

Should the rod be heated to attempt to straighten it?
 
I have straightened bent control rods with a vise, hammer and anvil without bad effect. Of course you will need to support the rod such that the stress is not applied to the small, weak section with the ball end.

Bending the control rod from the outside with a piece of pipe was once a not uncommon shade tree method of compensating for a worn cam follower pin.

By all means, install a new cam follower pin while the cover is off.

Is some of the position control mechanism missing from your lift cover?

Dean
 
There are two causes for a control rod to bend.

It can be bent from a jack-leg adjustment method to avoid pulling the top cover, replacing the cam follower pin & adjusting the internal linkage.

The other & most common cause occurs when the control valve sticks. When that happens, the lift just keeps on raising up and pushing against the neutral dowel that the piston comes in contact when the lift is at the top of its travel. Pushing against the neutral dowel bends the control rod if the valve is stuck.

Time to clean the pump.

Get a jig from Zane & adjust the linkage while you're in there.

I'm batting .500 with fixing bent rods. Fixed 2; 1 broke in a week.

These guys should be able to help you w/ used parts:

John Smith smith8NATatt.net

Rod Mondor fltractorATpeoplepc.com


Replace the AT in the address w/ @

Rod forest lake tractor 651 464 4628

NO gasket sealer on the gasket.
75 Tips
 
(quoted from post at 16:31:21 09/22/16) There are two causes for a control rod to bend.

It can be bent from a jack-leg adjustment method to avoid pulling the top cover, replacing the cam follower pin & adjusting the internal linkage.

The other & most common cause occurs when the control valve sticks. When that happens, the lift just keeps on raising up and pushing against the neutral dowel that the piston comes in contact when the lift is at the top of its travel. Pushing against the neutral dowel bends the control rod if the valve is stuck.

Time to clean the pump.

Get a jig from Zane & adjust the linkage while you're in there.

I'm batting .500 with fixing bent rods. Fixed 2; 1 broke in a week.

These guys should be able to help you w/ used parts:

John Smith smith8NATatt.net

Rod Mondor fltractorATpeoplepc.com


Replace the AT in the address w/ @

Rod forest lake tractor 651 464 4628

NO gasket sealer on the gasket.
75 Tips
'm on-board with Bruce, here, however, the anomaly I see is that with the direction of that bend, why did you need to push arm forward to make it lift? Seems that it should have more likely wanted to lift all the time & never be able to lower?
 
(quoted from post at 13:29:28 09/22/16) I have straightened bent control rods with a vise, hammer and anvil without bad effect. Of course you will need to support the rod such that the stress is not applied to the small, weak section with the ball end.

Bending the control rod from the outside with a piece of pipe was once a not uncommon shade tree method of compensating for a worn cam follower pin.

By all means, install a new cam follower pin while the cover is off.

Is some of the position control mechanism missing from your lift cover?

Dean

As I said before. This is what I guess to be a 2N top cover that was put on my 8N. And yes, the position control worked.

The pics are of the top cover just as it came off of my 8N. I haven't removed any parts from it.

It would help me if someone could post some pics of an 8N top cover showing the cam follower pin. The only dowel pin in this thing is shown in the third picture down and looks like it's resting against the edge of the piston chamber. Does that dowel pin do anything?
 
Yes.

The pictured pin is a fail safe mechanism. It is intended to push the control rod so as to stop the flow of oil to the lift cylinder to prevent the lift piston from deadheading against the ram arm if the lift mechanism fails for whatever reason.

Dean
 
(quoted from post at 14:53:24 09/22/16) Yes.

The pictured pin is a fail safe mechanism. It is intended to push the control rod so as to stop the flow of oil to the lift cylinder to prevent the lift piston from deadheading against the ram arm if the lift mechanism fails for whatever reason.

Dean

Thank you, that explains it. I guess when the former owner replaced the top cover with whatever he had available to him namely a 2N top cover, he put in only what parts he needed for it to have position control.
 
The pin is marked on photo & the part you are missing is the flat strap, just beyond the spring, that connects toggle at rear of spring down & forward to the Position/Draft lever that you are also missing. That toggle wants to be in relaxed position so as not to compress the spring (default position) & thus without the strap & Posn/draft lever to force it into the position to compress the spring, you are left forever in Position mode.
 
(quoted from post at 15:42:39 09/22/16) The pin is marked on photo & the part you are missing is the flat strap, just beyond the spring, that connects toggle at rear of spring down & forward to the Position/Draft lever that you are also missing. That toggle wants to be in relaxed position so as not to compress the spring (default position) & thus without the strap & Posn/draft lever to force it into the position to compress the spring, you are left forever in Position mode.

Thanks, that clears it up a bit. Forever in "position control" suits me just fine since I have and don't need any ground engaging equipment.

So when replacing that bent control rod would I still need Zanes jig for setting it up right?
 
Interesting cobble job someone did.
Given the choice, I would much rather have
position control than draft. But it is
nice to have both.
You might try Rod at Forrest Lake Tractor
for the parts you are missing. He has a
lot of N parts.
Good man and honest trader.
651 464 4628 8-4:30 central time.
 
(quoted from post at 17:21:36 09/22/16) Interesting cobble job someone did.
Given the choice, I would much rather have
position control than draft. But it is
nice to have both.
You might try Rod at Forrest Lake Tractor
for the parts you are missing. He has a
lot of N parts.
Good man and honest trader.
651 464 4628 8-4:30 central time.

Thanks, I will try Rod.

I have the MF 202 now, so once I get the three point lift going again on that I will have both position control and draft mode on that one.
 
(quoted from post at 20:11:40 09/22/16)
(quoted from post at 15:42:39 09/22/16) The pin is marked on photo & the part you are missing is the flat strap, just beyond the spring, that connects toggle at rear of spring down & forward to the Position/Draft lever that you are also missing. That toggle wants to be in relaxed position so as not to compress the spring (default position) & thus without the strap & Posn/draft lever to force it into the position to compress the spring, you are left forever in Position mode.

Thanks, that clears it up a bit. Forever in "position control" suits me just fine since I have and don't need any ground engaging equipment.

So when replacing that bent control rod would I still need Zanes jig for setting it up right?
t probably makes it easier for some folks.
 


When I started reading that I thought you were going to say: "I have the MF 202 now, so once I get the three point lift going again on that I will have both position control and
draft mode on that one - and the N will sit in the shed..."
Wink
 
(quoted from post at 18:59:11 09/22/16)

When I started reading that I thought you were going to say: "I have the MF 202 now, so once I get the three point lift going again on that I will have both position control and
draft mode on that one - and the N will sit in the shed..."
Wink

Nope, that little N has been my buddy and saved my back from ten years of work. It won't be ignored, if anything it will be improved.

I've never really had any time to do much to it before since it was my only tractor and needed to stay in operating mode.
 
My rod looked like that. I took it off and set it on the
concrete floor. I took a hammer and tapped it back
straight. On literally the last tap the last inch
including the ball end shot off into the shop corner. I
just kind of stared in disbelief. It must have been
cracked and couldn't take the vibration. I got a
replacement and then welded up my old as a spare.

Moral of the story? I'd set it on a 2x4 block before
tapping it back straight.
 
(quoted from post at 22:49:06 09/22/16) My rod looked like that. I took it off and set it on the
concrete floor. I took a hammer and tapped it back
straight. On literally the last tap the last inch
including the ball end shot off into the shop corner. I
just kind of stared in disbelief. It must have been
cracked and couldn't take the vibration. I got a
replacement and then welded up my old as a spare.

Moral of the story? I'd set it on a 2x4 block before
tapping it back straight.
he wood helps as a dampener............I think.
 
(quoted from post at 20:21:07 09/22/16)
(quoted from post at 22:49:06 09/22/16) My rod looked like that. I took it off and set it on the
concrete floor. I took a hammer and tapped it back
straight. On literally the last tap the last inch
including the ball end shot off into the shop corner. I
just kind of stared in disbelief. It must have been
cracked and couldn't take the vibration. I got a
replacement and then welded up my old as a spare.

Moral of the story? I'd set it on a 2x4 block before
tapping it back straight.
he wood helps as a dampener............I think.

So, again I ask, no heat?
 
So, I've decided to go ahead and drop the pump and clean it out good. Also upgrade the PTO to 1 3/8" while I"m at it.

As to someone who was wondering about the direction that the rod is bent and why it did not want to have the arms stuck at the top all the time...

I wonder about that also. Maybe the control rod was no longer actually in the cup that it is supposed to be in. I really can't remember. While the oil was still in it, I did reach down there and push the control valve in by hand. I guess I didn't pay attention enough to be certain that the end ball was actually in the cup.

But with the fluid now drained out, I reached down there and the control valve seems to work very well with no hint of any hold ups. So, I don't know why it was bent. I'm not actually going to drop the pump until my new parts order gets here.
 
(quoted from post at 01:16:24 09/23/16)
(quoted from post at 20:21:07 09/22/16)
(quoted from post at 22:49:06 09/22/16) My rod looked like that. I took it off and set it on the
concrete floor. I took a hammer and tapped it back
straight. On literally the last tap the last inch
including the ball end shot off into the shop corner. I
just kind of stared in disbelief. It must have been
cracked and couldn't take the vibration. I got a
replacement and then welded up my old as a spare.

Moral of the story? I'd set it on a 2x4 block before
tapping it back straight.
he wood helps as a dampener............I think.

So, again I ask, no heat?
have no answer to the heat question.
 

I have bent them (see deans post ) and straighten them with heat.
I have seen quite a few bent and no doubt someone reached thru the inspection hole and heated the arm and bent it.

If you get Zane's jig and FOLLOW the instructions to the T life will be good.
 
Caryc, I have one 8N-524 in my hand right now that appears to be in good condition and straight. Send me your e-mail or cell phone number and I'll send you a couple of pictures.
 
(quoted from post at 09:08:34 09/23/16) Caryc, I have one 8N-524 in my hand right now that appears to be in good condition and straight. Send me your e-mail or cell phone number and I'll send you a couple of pictures.

No way to contact you here on the forum but my email address is below

[email protected]
 
(quoted from post at 02:41:33 09/26/16) I post the link for you on my tractor forum

Yes Kirk, I saw that. I also answered that I have already found a control rod from BMACK518N.

Thanks anyway, I appreciate the help.
 
A special thanks to BMACK518N. I got a nice straight control rod from him. He is a very reasonable and accommodating guy to deal with.

He has a very good supply of parts if anyone needs anything. There are some parts like my control rod that you just can't get here on Yesterday's Tractor's site.

I did buy a lot of parts from YT for this hydraulic rebuild but as I said, there are certain things they just don't have.
 

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