So my Ford NAA has been converted to 12v with an electronic conversion kit in the distributor. When I first got the tractor, totally rebuilt, after a few days of use it does on me. I was out bush offing and it was like someone turned the key off...just died. No sputtering or anything...just died and would start. Would turn over but not start. Figured out it was the electronics. Replaced them and it fired right up. Today while discing, the tractor sputtered a few times and died, I just knew I had run out of fuel. But no, It has plenty of fuel. It will not start back for anything. I'm getting fuel and the coil is firing but the plug wires are not. This is just like what happened with the last electronics failure. I do not see any visual defects with the electronics nor did I with the previous kit. Everything appears as it should but I bet when I replace the electronics kit it's going to fire right up. I have only put about 5 hours at most on the tractor since I last replaced the electronics about 2 months ago. Any ideas as to what is going on here??? I have not left the key on for any length of time without the tractor running.
- Thread starter tvlis49
- Start date
Ultradog MN
Well-known Member
- Location
- Twin Cities
Hook a jumper wire directly from the + side of the battery to the coil. It could be the key switch. The switches are known to fail.
Tvlis49,You say that, I'm getting fuel and the coil is firing but the plug wires are not.When you say the coil is firing but the plug wires are not.Are you getting fire out of the center coil wire held a 1/4" from the block while cranking over.If so the rotor could be shorted to the distributor shaft if not getting fire to the plug wires,or the cap could be bad.
Bruce (VA)
Well-known Member
I had exactly the same thing happen on my 1950 MG-TD. I ran all the tests as suggested by Pertronix. They said the module was bad & I went & got a new one. That one lasted all of 300 miles. Same issue; intermittent spark. This time, I finally found out the cause of the failures in an email from Pertronix:
The Ignitor is a modern system that is affected by the RFI noise that the
wires emit. We do recommend using suppression wires because of this.
You can buy a set of universal wires and make a set for your application.
We have seen many failures due to using non-suppression type spark plug
wires.
Well, making wires for a 1950 MG isn't going to happen; they have a special connector that screws into the cap. It's back on points as Lucas (The Prince of Darkness) designed it.
So, if the module is bad after running the recommended tests, then exchange it & buy suppression (not resistor) plug wires.
75 Tips
The Ignitor is a modern system that is affected by the RFI noise that the
wires emit. We do recommend using suppression wires because of this.
You can buy a set of universal wires and make a set for your application.
We have seen many failures due to using non-suppression type spark plug
wires.
Well, making wires for a 1950 MG isn't going to happen; they have a special connector that screws into the cap. It's back on points as Lucas (The Prince of Darkness) designed it.
So, if the module is bad after running the recommended tests, then exchange it & buy suppression (not resistor) plug wires.
75 Tips
Mike Groom
Well-known Member
I run Pertronics in all my tractors and a couple of collector cars ,no problems in the last 16 years,are you sure the unit is for 12 volt?If you just put a NAA conversion in it would probably be 6 volt,I don't know about the plug wire problem but I have never had problems with any of my John Deeres or Jubilee or 3000 series and I'm sure they have copper plug wires.
Bruce (VA)
Well-known Member
" I don't know about the plug wire problem but I have never had problems with any of my John Deeres or Jubilee or 3000 series and I'm sure they have copper plug wires. "
Neither had I.
I think it's a problem w/ the newer units.
Neither had I.
I think it's a problem w/ the newer units.
Charles Krammin
Member
Have you checked the coil? Common problem with coil- start-run-heat up-tar like insulation melts causing short. Cool down then starts and runs again. Can check resistance with a "digital ohm meter", but only accurate if fully shorted or when it stalls. 1.3 ohms on 6 volt and about 2.75 on a 12 volt coil.
Only sure way to check, is to have a known good coil, to replace questionable intermittent coil.
Charles Krammin
Only sure way to check, is to have a known good coil, to replace questionable intermittent coil.
Charles Krammin
Bruce (VA)
Well-known Member
Amen.
And the motto of owners of British cars:
"Home before dark".
And you know why Brits drink warm beer?
Because Lucas made refrigerators too.
And the motto of owners of British cars:
"Home before dark".
And you know why Brits drink warm beer?
Because Lucas made refrigerators too.
Hobo,NC
Well-known Member
- Location
- Sanford, NC
explain how you confirmed the module was bad... Swapping parts is not a option...
Bruce (VA)
Well-known Member
I ran a jumper directly from the Battery to
the module and observed the same
intermittent spark. What was most telling is
that it would usually spark as soon as I let
off the starter. I did swap rotors,
batteries and the coil to eliminate both as
possibilities.
the module and observed the same
intermittent spark. What was most telling is
that it would usually spark as soon as I let
off the starter. I did swap rotors,
batteries and the coil to eliminate both as
possibilities.
"When you say the coil is firing but the plug wires are not."
Yep, that caught my eye too.
If the coil high voltage terminal is firing you could test any
and all leads off the distributor to see what is going on.
How are we testing spark at the coil and spark plug wires?
Yep, that caught my eye too.
If the coil high voltage terminal is firing you could test any
and all leads off the distributor to see what is going on.
How are we testing spark at the coil and spark plug wires?
Hobo,NC
Well-known Member
- Location
- Sanford, NC
What part number did you use.
Den N---Yes, I put on a new coil yesterday and got a few good, blue sparks from 1/4" away form the block but then nothing but small, intermittent white sparks when touched directly to the block. When sticking a screwdriver into the plug wires I get no sparks when turning the engine over.
Ultradog---I ran a wire directly from the positive post on the battery to the positive post on the coil. Still only got small white sparks and engine wouldn't start.
Bruce---I'm not even sure what type of plug wires I have but I will be looking into it.
Mike--- I am positive it is a 12v unit.
Charles---I installed a brand new coil yesterday and got a few good sparks from 1/4" away but then nothing but small, intermittent white sparks when touched directly to metal.
Bob, Soundguy, Bruce, and HFG--- I have no idea who Lucas is.
Hobo--- I took someone else's advise and installed the new electronic ignition set in the distributor. It worked fine for about 2 months but now the same problem. I'm not sure of the part number but I might be able to find it this afternoon.
Ultradog---I ran a wire directly from the positive post on the battery to the positive post on the coil. Still only got small white sparks and engine wouldn't start.
Bruce---I'm not even sure what type of plug wires I have but I will be looking into it.
Mike--- I am positive it is a 12v unit.
Charles---I installed a brand new coil yesterday and got a few good sparks from 1/4" away but then nothing but small, intermittent white sparks when touched directly to metal.
Bob, Soundguy, Bruce, and HFG--- I have no idea who Lucas is.
Hobo--- I took someone else's advise and installed the new electronic ignition set in the distributor. It worked fine for about 2 months but now the same problem. I'm not sure of the part number but I might be able to find it this afternoon.
Bruce (VA)
Well-known Member
Bruce (VA)
Well-known Member
I was using the LU-146 unit on the TD. And I did a voltage drop test on the module as well.
Hobo,NC
Well-known Member
- Location
- Sanford, NC
There Diagnostic approach shuck but I understand there theory on there approach to determine the wiring is good and sound. If the module switches its good. Its a electronic switch (points are a manual switch) :wink: The fact it will make spark tells me the module is switching look elsewhere its not the module.
b:3ffc2edfad][i:3ffc2edfad](quoted from post at 21:22:20 08/25/16) "I have no idea who Lucas is."
Lucky you!
Lucas electrics had a less than stellar reputation.
Doesn't affect your NAA at all.
It wasn't Lucas to start with and definitely isn't now.
Certainly does bring back memories for many of us though.
I used to have a TR3-A widemouth, that knew Lucas very well!!!!
YUCKY!!!!!![/i:3ffc2edfad][/b:3ffc2edfad]
Hobo, so you're saying that if I remove the center
wire from the distributor cap (the one coming from
the coil) and touch the end to metal and get any
kind of spark, even if it's not a "good" spark then
that means the electronic ignition module inside the
distributor is working as it should??
wire from the distributor cap (the one coming from
the coil) and touch the end to metal and get any
kind of spark, even if it's not a "good" spark then
that means the electronic ignition module inside the
distributor is working as it should??
Hobo,NC
Well-known Member
- Location
- Sanford, NC
Yes
[email protected]
New User
zuhnc
Member
- Location
- Macks Creek, MO
Yes to changing the plug wires to resistance-type wires. The ORIGINAL Pertronix Ignitor I could use either solid or resistance. The later type II and III MUST use resistance wire. I have about 250 hours on my 8N Pertronix conversion, resistance wires, original coil, 12V conversion, with no issues. I have Pertronix products on my Onan JC generator, as well as two other Onan generators. No failures from any of them; all equipped with resistance wires. No ballast resistors needed, either.
Suppression and resistance wires are the same thing - they both reduce electromagnetic interference and probably dampen high voltage (higher than ignition requirements) spikes that could possibly damage the module, This is my opinion on the spikes. I have no first-hand knowledge about this, but Pertronix specifies resistance wires for a reason, I would presume.
This post was edited by zuhnc on 09/10/2021 at 10:14 pm.
Suppression and resistance wires are the same thing - they both reduce electromagnetic interference and probably dampen high voltage (higher than ignition requirements) spikes that could possibly damage the module, This is my opinion on the spikes. I have no first-hand knowledge about this, but Pertronix specifies resistance wires for a reason, I would presume.
This post was edited by zuhnc on 09/10/2021 at 10:14 pm.
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