8N sleeve

This message is a reply to an archived post by Bulldozer on November 08, 2012 at 14:33:58.
The original subject was "Re: 8N sleeve".

I will just chime in on this old post that I have run into some aggravation installing new .040 steel sleeves. I broke two out of 4 sleeve flanges even though I used a hydraulic press very carefully to install them with a proper steel installation tool. Just out of curiosity, I reinstalled two of the old sleeves using the same method and the flanges were fine. Not only that but when first delivered, one of the four .040 sleeves had a 2 inch crack in the sleeve from the bottom edge up. I am going to go ahead and have the block bored for .090 iron sleeves, but possibly understand now why some builders always go to the .090 sleeves, and don't even bother with the apparently poor quality .040 steel sleeves that are available these days.

(quoted from post at 18:56:08 08/22/16) This message is a reply to an archived post by Bulldozer on November 08, 2012 at 14:33:58.
The original subject was "Re: 8N sleeve".

I will just chime in on this old post that I have run into some aggravation installing new .040 steel sleeves. I broke two out of 4 sleeve flanges even though I used a hydraulic press very carefully to install them with a proper steel installation tool. Just out of curiosity, I reinstalled two of the old sleeves using the same method and the flanges were fine. Not only that but when first delivered, one of the four .040 sleeves had a 2 inch crack in the sleeve from the bottom edge up. I am going to go ahead and have the block bored for .090 iron sleeves, but possibly understand now why some builders always go to the .090 sleeves, and don't even bother with the apparently poor quality .040 steel sleeves that are available these days.

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I think you will find new .040 sleeves are centrifugally cast gray iron - not steel ;-)

TOH

OK, at any rate they are certainly fragile. If I look at the fracture line where the flanges cracked it certainly does look porous like cast iron. That's good since the rings are then the same for both the .040 and .090 I assume. Out of curiosity I compressed them oval until they cracked and the old liners are considerably more ductile, so I guess the new suppliers have something to learn about metallurgy.

Actually "porous" is the wrong word, more like a "brittle fracture" as you would expect from cast iron.

(quoted from post at 20:35:55 08/22/16) OK, at any rate they are certainly fragile. If I look at the fracture line where the flanges cracked it certainly does look porous like cast iron. That's good since the rings are then the same for both the .040 and .090 I assume. Out of curiosity I compressed them oval until they cracked and the old liners are considerably more ductile, so I guess the new suppliers have something to learn about metallurgy.

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I think the new suppliers know way more about metallurgy than they ever did. The new spun cast iron liners are a big improvement over the steel liners which were an engineering mistake that took Ford 10+ years to recognize and fix.

TOH

Could be, but I am certainly disappointed in the apparently poor quality of the new ones I just bought (as I said one arrived cracked, and two failed when installed properly). Perhaps a "bad batch" but I am not going to give the .040 another try that's for sure.

(quoted from post at 20:42:54 08/22/16) Actually "porous" is the wrong word, more like a "brittle fracture" as you would expect from cast iron.

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From a metallurgy standpoint they are technically made of ductile cast iron AKA nodular cast iron or spheroidal graphite cast iron. DCI is produced by the addition of nodulizing elements (commonly magnesium) that promote the formation of nodular rather than flake graphite and make it more ductile than conventional grey cast iron. Here is a good description of the sleeve characteristics from Melling:

[i:218e7cc85f][u:218e7cc85f]Melling “HP” sleeves are made from centrifugally cast, high strength gray iron. It is a lower carbon iron alloyed with chromium, copper and nickel to produce a harder (241-293 BHN) more wear resistant surface. The average tensile strength (45,000 - 50,000 p.s.i) is 1/3 greater than “regular” iron sleeves and nearly all OEM cylinder blocks. This translates into this proven sleeve material has been used successfully for years in heavy- duty diesel and performance engines to give longer life with less distortion and enhanced reliability. Our HP”
iron is compatible with all ring materials[/u:218e7cc85f]
[/i:218e7cc85f]

TOH

Have you actually seen such a thing as an iron .040 sleeve?

A year or so ago I contacted several of the more reliable vendors selling .040 sleeves,including Tisco, and they all told me
either that theirs were steel or they didn't know and had no way of finding out. My conclusion was that iron just wasn't strong
enough to use that thin.

One of the vendors who said theirs were steel had them described as iron in their catalog.

(quoted from post at 09:14:15 08/25/16) Have you actually seen such a thing as an iron .040 sleeve?

A year or so ago I contacted several of the more reliable vendors selling .040 sleeves,including Tisco, and they all told me
either that theirs were steel or they didn't know and had no way of finding out. My conclusion was that iron just wasn't strong
enough to use that thin.

One of the vendors who said theirs were steel had them described as iron in their catalog.

Click to expand...

I have never had one in my hand so I can't say from personal experience and FWIW S10vette's description doesn't sound like steel to me.

I suspect most if not all vendors actually "don't know" so I would take anything they said with a grain of salt. I have much more confidence in what the OEM catalogs are saying. The Melling catalog certainly indicates their .040 Ford sleeves (CSL301F) are HP ductile cast iron same as the .090 wall sleeves (CSL304F). An older Federal Mogul installation guide has a special section just for their Ford .040 wall sleeves and it says quite explicitly they are "cast iron".

But since you ask I just emailed Melling technical support to see what they say....

TOH