SNAG! 12 volt Conversion troubles

Summers70

Member
Recently I made the decision to do a 12 volt conversion on my dads 53 NAA. As part of the conversion kit, it came with a two wire dash light and a 2 wire volt meter. The trouble is, the original dash light only had one wire running to the light switch, so I don't know where to place the other wire(which I assume is the ground). Additionally my conversion instructions say nothing about the two wires on the volt meter. Can those just be clipped? Or should they be run to the terminal block some how? Pictures to follow. Thanks in advance.
39299.jpg
 

yes, i'm reasonably sure your extra wire is a ground.

and i imagine the two wires on the voltmeter are for a light so u can read the meter at night.
 

scratch "i imagine". having just now spotted the L on the back of the meter by those 2 wires, i'm sure it's a light.
 


Which wire do you think is the ground? The one at the bottom of the harness or the one that goes up inside?

Also, I didn't consider that those two wires maybe for a light. Can you think of any way to hook it up, or how to delete them?

Thanks!
 

on the separate dash light, the ground should be the wire which is in contact with the outer casing of the bulb's base. the hot wire for that bulb will be the one isolated in the center.

for the meter light, it doesn't likely matter which one u make ground and which u make hot. the hot wire should come from the switched terminal on your light switch, the ground can go to any convenient grounding point. or, u could simply not wire that light.
 

ps: if your headlight circuit happens to be fused, u want to get power for those bulbs from a spot past the fuse.
 

Well I've got it all hooked up. Went to start it, and the volt meter shows nothing. The solenoid did click when I pushed the button but that's it. Any ideas/suggestions? Triple check all the connections per the directions/diagrams.

Thanks in advance!
 

Bad battery connection somewhere or bad battery. Could be bad solinoid too if it only clicked. You should have had a voltage reading.
 

Hmm...maybe a bad connection. I just purchased the battery today from Napa. I thought they came charged, but maybe not? I believe solenoid was good before on the 6v system...
 

Here is is a major question for ya. You assume that light is a dash light for you to see with. Yes? Is it that kind of light or is it an idiot light as they call it that is only supposed to come on when the alternator quits charging? If thats the case, it should only come on when you turn the key on and then go out after it starts unless its not charging.
 
Have to change solinoid to a 12 volt solinoid also. May have blown it out if you used it on 12 volt system. Some may say it will work ok for awhile that way. Dont know. But, i bought a 12 volt sol to replace mine just to avoid such a problem.
 

PS. Rural King, Tractor Supply, or other farm and fleet store carries them but can get them at any auto parts store as well. tractor supply stores list them for the 8N. But the look like GM parts to me.
 
(quoted from post at 17:36:54 08/15/16) Have to change solinoid to a 12 volt solinoid also. May have blown it out if you used it on 12 volt system. Some may say it will work ok for awhile that way. Dont know. But, i bought a 12 volt sol to replace mine just to avoid such a problem.
I have no problem with the 6 volt solenoid on my 12 volt 8n. Works just great and expect it to for along time.
 

I assume it to be a dash light for illuminating in low light conditions. I can't say that's the case definitively. I hadn't seen anything prior about switching the solenoid during a conversion but that's good to know. I'll try wiggling the connection in a few mins after I get some chow. The best way for me to explain what's happening is that it's exactly like when the battery is dead. Turn the key, push the button and click. Nothing more. My "value brand" voltmeter starts at 8 and goes to 20 I think. So if there's less then 8volts charge on the battery, I won't know. Like I say, I thought those batteries came charged, but maybe not. It's weird.

Thanks again!
 

I assume it to be a dash light for illuminating in low light conditions. I can't say that's the case definitively. I hadn't seen anything prior about switching the solenoid during a conversion but that's good to know. I'll try wiggling the connection in a few mins after I get some chow. The best way for me to explain what's happening is that it's exactly like when the battery is dead. Turn the key, push the button and click. Nothing more. My "value brand" voltmeter starts at 8 and goes to 20 I think. So if there's less then 8volts charge on the battery, I won't know. Like I say, I thought those batteries came charged, but maybe not. It's weird.

Thanks again!
 

having never seen this voltmeter working, u don't yet know if it's wired right. do u own a handheld volt meter? if not, i'd suggest u get one. a cheap digital meter will work fine when the tractor is off, but is easily confused when it's running. an analog meter (the swinging needle kind) won't have that problem.

see how many volts one says your battery has.
 
Ok, I'll give that a try. I hate to say it but I'm thinking of contacting one of my local tractor dealers and seeing if they'll send out a mechanic. It may end up being something super simple or something not. I don't have a lot of confidence in my electrical skills and don't want to cause too much damage if I don't have too.
 

not to worry, u won't find anyone locally who knows more about these than the people here :)
 
The 2 wires coming out of the volt meter would be for a light. The black goes to ground and the red goes to a power source(one that's energized when you turn the headlights on).
 
Unless you have an older mechanic at the local dealership,
they likely won't know how to fix it unless they can plug
their computer into it somewhere. ;)

Google "wiring diagrams by JMOR" to get a correct diagram.
Your voltmeter should read battery voltage when you turn the
key on. That makes me think it's not wired right somewhere.
If the 12V battery is less than 8V you need another new one.

I agree with the others on the voltmeter and light. The two
small wires on the gauge are for a light, the one connected
to the base of the other light is ground.
Best of luck and let us know what you find.
 

"the red goes to a power source"

ah, ty. mr. partially colorblind here looked at that pic and saw 4 black wires. now that u mention it, i see the left one is red :oops:

happily, while convention is good, light bulbs don't care :)
 

HFJ - no worries. I still appreciate your help.

Royce - I greatly appreciate your suggestion. I'm gunna post a couple pictures. You'll notice some differences right away, as did I. I'm not saying that this is the proverbial missing link (pun fully intended) but it may certainly make a big difference. I assumed the diagram I was sent (black and white photo), was the correct one. For all I knew when that diagram said "& Up" I assumed it meant and up into the NAA. The second picture (the color diagram) affirms what happens when people, myself included, assume.

PS I'm gunna hold off correcting my mistakes until morning. I don't think anyone within ear shot would appreciate me firing the old girl up at 3:00am.
39333.jpg
39334.jpg
 
....and don't worry about 6v vs 12v solenoid, as 6v will be fine forever, plus you will be worse off it you replace it with the wrong 12v unit! Almost all 12v conversion kits, if not all, are one wire alternators , soooo, that light id NOT for use as charge indicator lamp. Furthermore, IF it were for that purpose, both terminals would need to be ungrounded, unlike that one.
 
That first diagram is one of JMOR's too and is correct for a 12V
conversion using an [b:f4283b5082]ammeter[/b:f4283b5082]. Yours has a voltmeter though.
They are wired differently. That's probably the issue with the gauge.
Once you can double check the wiring any other problems will
be easier to identify and correct if needed.
 


I also noticed that the top one is for the 8N. JMOR has two separate ones for the NAA/Jubilee- one for ammeter, one for volt meter. The wiring for the 8N vs the Jubilee is a little different regardless what gauge you've got. I figured "eh, must be the same from the 8N up into the NAA." But I was wrong.
 


I also noticed that the top one is for the 8N. JMOR has two separate ones for the NAA/Jubilee- one for ammeter, one for volt meter. The wiring for the 8N vs the Jubilee is a little different regardless what gauge you've got. I figured "eh, must be the same from the 8N up into the NAA." But I was wrong.
 
"wiring for the 8N vs the Jubilee is a little different"

Not to mention the distributor rotation is opposite. ;)
 

Update...

I broke a post off the terminal block, hence the delay as I had to order a new one. I wired it up according to the new appropriate NAA diagram I found and now I get a voltage reading, but still no start. More specifically, I turn the key and get the reading right around 12volts, but then go to push the button and I hear a click and lose the reading. So I readjust the cables on the battery a little and try again, and the same thing happens. Is it possible that I have a good enough connection to show on the volt meter but not enough to roll over the starter? I purposely haven't tightened down the battery cables for ease of tinkering at the moment...

Thanks in advance!
 
"Is it possible that I have a good enough connection to show
on the volt meter but not enough to roll over the starter?"

Very possible and that's what it sounds like to me.
 
What kind of condition are the battery cables in? Do they have OEM ends or the clamp on repair ends?

Rick
 

Rick-
They have original manufacture ends on them. The ground looks to be a replacement at one time. But they worked fine on the 6v.

Update:
I've triple checked the wiring diagram on this thing. I can't figure out where the problem could be. The voltmeter shows its reading, the solenoid clicks when the button is pushed and that's it. Voltmeter shows the battery's charged and the connection has to be good at the battery and cables. All the other wiring nuts are tight. I thought I'd check the lights as another test but they don't work either (yes I changed them to 12v). Somethings gotta be wrong, I just don't know what. The alternator is installed, the coil switched and installed, the voltage regulator deleted. Help?

By the way I do have a tester. The type that looks like a pen/screwdriver that lights up and has an alligator clip at the one end. I don't know if it'll do me any good or not or if I'd have to upgrade to a multimeter, I'm sure you fellas will let me know.

Thanks again for your time and your patience in advance.
 

"Voltmeter shows the battery's charged"

i trust my battery charger to give me a better idea of my battery's health than a meter. if i take 8 AAA batteries and connect them together in series, a voltmeter will show 12 volts - but i'm pretty sure they won't start my tractor ;)
 
Now that you have double checked all the connections,
when you push the button and the solenoid clicks, what
does the voltmeter do once you release the button?
If it stays at zero, still a bad connection.
If it comes back up to battery voltage, maybe a stuck starter.
That might be freed by putting it in gear and rocking the
rear tires hard enough to turn the fan blade on the engine.
 
"if i take 8 AAA batteries and connect them together in series,
a voltmeter will show 12 volts - but i'm pretty sure they won't
start my tractor ;)"

ROFL Are you sure about that?
You might want to try it so you can say for sure. ;)
 
It goes back to zero. If I wiggle the ground cable a little, it comes back up to a little above 12 volts. Otherwise if I turn the key off for a few minutes and then turn it back on the needle goes back up again.
 
(quoted from post at 18:31:51 08/21/16) It goes back to zero. If I wiggle the ground cable a little, it comes back up to a little above 12 volts. Otherwise if I turn the key off for a few minutes and then turn it back on the needle goes back up again.
You have a bad connection. Likely that ground that you are wiggling.
 
Positive post is bigger than the negative.
I don't know that there is a difference between brands, etc.
Part of why I'm not a fan of "universal" connection ends.
 

Interesting. That explains why the positive post doesn't really accept its cable and what the negative still wiggles when it's tightened all the way down.
 

dang it, royse, now you've got me questioning myself. i'm gonna feel pretty stupid if this works :)
 

whew, i feel better now, it didn't start. but this gives me an idea for a fun offseason project. i'll convert it back to 6 volts. i have a feeling i'll be able to start it with 4 AAAs :D
 

Good luck with that! Haha

I've got it running now. Poor connection of the ground cable (negative) to the post. Replaced the cable and it turned right over. Interestingly the voltmeter reads 16-18 volts when it's running. I assume that's because it's charging? Thanks everyone for your help.
 
Glad to hear you got it going!

"I assume that's because it's charging?'
Well, yes and no. Yes it should read more than 12V when charging.
I would expect about 14V and would consider 16-18 too high if continuous.
Then again, the gauge may not be completely accurate either.
Charge the battery and then start it. What does it read then?
If you have a hand-held VOM or analog voltmeter, see if it
agrees with the in dash gauge when running as a double-check.
 
I haven't run it a ton but ill monitor it when I go and mow. What would I do if it does continuously run 16v or more? And no I don't have a multimeter.
 
Borrow a handheld voltmeter and verify they match.
Let the owner use it for you if he will, that way you won't get
any of the borrower blame if his meter goes bad next week.
An analog meter may work better than a digital one in this case.
Digital meters can be sensitive to the electrical noise on these
old tractors.
 

Sorry for the delay... I finally procured a multimeter and just finally tried it out. At idle and at PTO speed I'm running at 14.76 volts. When the tractor is shut off it sits at 12.82volts.
 

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