steering gear arm alignment

timsch · Aug 9, 2016

The steering gear arms on my '48 8N both are positioned at about 30 degrees rearward from straight down when the front wheels are straight forward. Is this acceptable? It seems that most 8N pictures I've seen have the arms straight down with wheels straight ahead.

I'm working on diagnosing hard steering. Would this have an effect? I have plenty of adjustability on the drag links if needed to shorten them.

HCooke · Aug 9, 2016

When the wheels are straight ahead, the sector arms should both point to the socket that holds the end of the radius arm. This is not
straight down.

HCooke · Aug 9, 2016

Here is a pic.

timsch · Aug 9, 2016

Thanks for the info. Mine are a bit more to the rear than yours are, maybe twice as much, but even yours are pointing behind the socket, by an inch or so.

What's the effect on steering if they're not aligned with the socket?

HCooke · Aug 10, 2016

Jack up the front of your tractor. Is the steering easier now? IF so you need to look at the front suspension to find your problem.

timsch · Aug 10, 2016

I've jacked it up and the steering is easier, but then, the wheels are of the ground, so it would be. It is not as easy as it should be, and is easier to the left than to the right. I've already straightened the radius arms, replaced spindle bushings & bearings, & adjusted toe in, and filled the steering box with cornhead grease. The steering turns without any sounds coming from the box and without the steering wheel moving up & down.

I'm trying to eliminate all possibilities before going into the box.

souNdguy · Aug 11, 2016

slightly swept back is correct.

you rotate the round covers to take up backlash. usually you don't have enough adjustment on those old boxes..

But just
for S&G's, you didn't rotate the covers till it was hard to steer did you?

No up and down on the wheel is good. Question.. you didn't go into the box and replace the metal bearings and cups with those
POS nylon jobs did you? Doing so can cause reduced steering performance and hard steering if you put the box top on hard to
clamp them in and keep out thrust play.

Speaking of thrust play, you didn't remove too many shims and thus have the wormshaft held in a bind do you?

Lastly.. if it steers ok with the front up but hard, front down, check the spindle bushings.

If it steers harder one way than the other.. when the front is up.. it's in the box, unless you have binding at the spindles.

disconnect steering arms either at the front or back.. if it's binding in the box.. you will be going back in.

as said.. binding could be:

too tight adjustment on side covers

chitty nylon thrust bearings

insuficient shim stack between box and top putting a bind on the worm shaft.

a badly worn ballnut that is tipping upon steering.

PS.. having the gears out of time just reduces your lock to lock steering range, and/or, makes it so that you can steer farther
to one side than the other.

Post back

timsch · Aug 12, 2016

souNdguy, I just made a new post with a bit more info on the steering box before seeing your response.

I didn't make any adjustments on the box up to this point. I did attempt adjusting the sectors last night and they were not too tight.

I've not been into the box and don't know whether the metal B&Bs have been replaced with nylon. The wheel spins easily with drag links removed. I was hoping a simple adjustment would help, but, like you said, there was no adjustment left - the right sector just spun.

Spindle bushings & bearings all recently replaced. The wheels rotate easily with drag links removed.

Part of the problem seems to be geometry. It is hardest to get the wheels turning back from full lock to the left. At that position, the left front wheel spindle arm is point nearly forward, and the line of force on it from the drag link acts more along the line of the arm itself going toward the spindle rather than along the arc that the spindle arm end travels. The less force going along the arc, the less torque at the spindle, so harder steering.

Not that the steering was great overall, but turning back from full left was a PITA.

Maybe the gears were a bit out of time. It did seem that the left wheel turned out quickly at the end of travel, making the problem worse. I was hoping that the adjustment would help, so when the adjustment failed, it was a bit of a drag (no pun intended....)

Caryc · Aug 12, 2016

(quoted from post at 09:36:27 08/12/16) souNdguy, I just made a new post with a bit more info on the steering box before seeing your response.

I didn't make any adjustments on the box up to this point. I did attempt adjusting the sectors last night and they were not too tight.

I've not been into the box and don't know whether the metal B&Bs have been replaced with nylon. The wheel spins easily with drag links removed. I was hoping a simple adjustment would help, but, like you said, there was no adjustment left - the right sector just spun.

Spindle bushings & bearings all recently replaced. The wheels rotate easily with drag links removed.

Part of the problem seems to be geometry. It is hardest to get the wheels turning back from full lock to the left. [b:bd8658b82d] [color=red:bd8658b82d]At that position, the left front wheel spindle arm is point nearly forward, and the line of force on it from the drag link acts more along the line of the arm itself going toward the spindle rather than along the arc that the spindle arm end travels. The less force going along the arc, the less torque at the spindle, so harder steering.[/color:bd8658b82d][/b:bd8658b82d]

Not that the steering was great overall, but turning back from full left was a PITA.

Maybe the gears were a bit out of time. It did seem that the left wheel turned out quickly at the end of travel, making the problem worse. I was hoping that the adjustment would help, so when the adjustment failed, it was a bit of a drag (no pun intended....)

Now that's a mouthful. I think that is one of those things better understood when you're there looking at it in action. :wink:

I hope you get your problem figured out.

timsch · Aug 12, 2016

Yeah, I know. I was hesitant to post that, but didn't know how else to better explain it.

The drag link pulls/pushes straight forward & back for the most part, but the spindle arm is not always pointing in the same direction. When the spindle arm is at a 90 degree angle to the drag link, then the push/pull from the DL all goes to rotating the arm around the spindle.

Like using a breaker bar on a bolt. You push perpendicular to the bar. You don't push at some other angle other than perpendicular to it because it is less effective. If you push straight down the shaft of the bar, it doesn't turn the bolt at all.

A similar thing happens with the drag link when the left wheel is turned fully to the left. The spindle arm points almost forward (at least on mine it does), while the drag link pulls almost rearward, so most of the force goes into pulling the arm back into the spindle rather than rotating the arm around the spindle.

I'd think that if the steering box is adjusted right that this is not so much a problem. I've found now that my steering box cannot be adjusted properly, so that is compounding my problem.

timsch · Aug 15, 2016

Everyone can ignore all of my babble above. My steering problems begin and end with my early model steering box and the fact that I can't adjust it any more. Too much backlash resulting in not holding the wheels in alignment.

steering gear arm alignment

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