Ratface's new knock

Now that he's figured out his manifold/carb issues, he has
a new noise. [b:063c3db4d7]Here's[/b:063c3db4d7] a short video of it running.
What do you all here?

Throttle or choke plate screw on top of a piston?

Possible, but could be water pump. A stethoscope could help locate it.

Knock sounds a little to fast at that rpm for a piston or rod,could be coming from the governor.

(quoted from post at 22:26:32 08/02/16) Possible, but could be water pump. A stethoscope could help locate it.

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b:42c076cd0e][i:42c076cd0e]

I'm with you HC..........sounds to me like a waterpump knock (fixen to fall apart) ????

Gary :?: [/i:42c076cd0e][/b:42c076cd0e]

(quoted from post at 22:00:21 08/02/16)

(quoted from post at 22:26:32 08/02/16) Possible, but could be water pump. A stethoscope could help locate it.

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b:c0d1c9a666][i:c0d1c9a666]

I'm with you HC..........sounds to me like a waterpump knock (fixen to fall apart) ????

Gary :?: [/i:c0d1c9a666][/b:c0d1c9a666]

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I do believe you can see it jumping right along with the noise.

(quoted from post at 23:18:10 08/02/16)

(quoted from post at 22:00:21 08/02/16)

(quoted from post at 22:26:32 08/02/16) Possible, but could be water pump. A stethoscope could help locate it.

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b:1a01e5097b][i:1a01e5097b]

I'm with you HC..........sounds to me like a waterpump knock (fixen to fall apart) ????

Gary :?: [/i:1a01e5097b][/b:1a01e5097b]

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I do believe you can see it jumping right along with the noise.

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b:1a01e5097b][i:1a01e5097b]

Yep,....I thought I saw it jumping.....thought I might have just been seeing things!!
GB[/i:1a01e5097b][/b:1a01e5097b]

Unless I'm hearing it wrong it seems like it skips a knock every so often. I'd take the belt off and try again.

Thanks everyone, I did remove the belt and the noise remained, wouldn't that rule out the waterpump?

(quoted from post at 05:32:47 08/03/16) Thanks everyone, I did remove the belt and the noise remained, wouldn't that rule out the waterpump?

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If not water pump I vote for distributor advance weight hitting a hold down screw that's just a little long.

Might explain erratic idle too.

"Thanks everyone, I did remove the belt and the noise remained, wouldn't that rule out the waterpump?"

yes.

teddy would that have required the head off recently? It hasn't been off in at least 8 years.

(quoted from post at 08:00:30 08/03/16) teddy would that have required the head off recently? It hasn't been off in at least 8 years.

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I'd try and localize the sound to make for better guesswork,
by using a mechanics stethoscope, a rubber heater hose or a broomstick. Listen through the pan all the way along, listen to the block mid-way up, listen to the head all along, etc.

You also might try having it running and unplugging one cylinder at a time at the distributor. See if the knock disappears when that piston isn't firing.

T

working on it now, removed belt for the second time, knocking is still there. Going to look at the distributor next. Also noticed that if I tap a crankshaft pulley with my hand on an old engine it has the same vibrational sound to it? Just coincidence??? it's a hollow knocking and I can almost replicate it on the old pulley. I can't budge the pulley with my hands on the tractor but that's probably normal. Tractor has been down most of this year and it's driving me crazy! Did run a hose around on various locations with my ear on the other. I pretty much get a whooshing sound on the block, oil pan, distributor, governor, and water pump. I can rock the Water pump a little bit up and down and it probably needs replacing but I don't think that's it? Still looking. Got another video maybe Royce and post it later tonight for me of it running making the noise with the belt disconnected.

Sure, send it to me and I'll post it for you.
The more ears the better.

Screw can be sucked from the carb through the intake. Also if the plugs had a pebble by them when you take them out, it could fall in .

Just checked the distributor and there are no screws protruding from the bottom. Going to put a different distributor on it and see what happens just for laughs.

[b:5b843c5909]Here[/b:5b843c5909] you are!

royse? those videos are unlisted. please think twice about sharing them.

:lol:

seriously, wtf does that even mean?

Ratface,what is the oil pressure like at idle?It could be the crank is hitting the oil pump pickup tube.

It means you can get to them with a link, but they're not found
in a general search of YouTube as a "Public" video would be.
Not quite the same as "Unrated" thank goodness!

To recap, this was a great running tractor earlier this year when I decided to change the manifold because it had gotten very loud, was leaking around the number 4 exhaust port as many of them do. Then had sooting of plugs and finally discovered new manifold had pushed carburetor forward toward radiator changing butterfly tension on a newly rebuilt carburetor. Fixed that issue but about the same time as the manifold change it developed a loud knock as the videos demonstrate. Disconnecting belt has no effect. Changing distributor has no effect on noise. Noise is a knocking thumping hollow noise. Listening up and down the tractor it seems I can detect the noise in two places, The most profound is on the governor rod which leads to the carburetor, the short one. I discovered this by accident while checking near the valve covers. The second place where the knocking is heard is near the oil drain plug on the oil pan. It is more profound at the governor. The knock is only noticeable at idle, the lower the rpms the louder, but it could just be I can't hear it at high rpms? Disconnecting the short governor rod and operating it by hand has no effect. Assuming the carburetor was pushed forward with the new manifold I elongated the long throttle rod with the adjusting turn wheels out to six threads, no difference. Put them back to full closed position. I am not able to operate the tractor within the first six notches on the throttle quadrant as it just dies out. I can get the idle rpms between 4-500 and the high rpms to 2200. I use a laser hand held measuring tool. I disconnected each plug wire in turn while engine is idling with no change in knocking noise. Oil pressure has always been low at idle and rises to around ten under load. Honestly oil pressure is at near zero at idle. Compression check showed good numbers from 1-4, dry and then wet, 107-110, 110-112, 105-108, 108-115. Just took it out for a test brush hogging and it runs poorly, general lack of power. All I really changed was the manifold? I brush hog near a river and the brakes need redoing, might make a great beaver dam?

<snip> The most profound is on the governor rod which leads to the carburetor, the short one. I discovered this by accident while checking near the valve covers. The second place where the knocking is heard is near the oil drain plug on the oil pan. It is more profound at the governor. The knock is only noticeable at idle, the lower the rpms the louder, but it could just be I can't hear it at high rpms?

Loudest at the oil plug could mean pickup tube as someone suggested, or maybe something amiss with the pistons nearest the drain plug.

In the mid seventies a heavy equipment operator told me something very interesting.

He said that if the knocking goes away with increased rpm (and the subsequent increase in pressure) it is rod bearing related. If the knocking sound only gets more rapid with rpm increase, then it is wrist pin related.

To tell you the truth, I could have gotten that scenario totally backward after all this time

But it is something to think about none the less.

If it makes a noise like that in a transmission it is a broken tooth on a gear. Could be a broken tooth under the timing cover. Pull the goviner and check it out as well as see if you can inspect the other gears visually from the hole it mounts in.. my 2 cents worth.

Ideas:

Loose pick up tube

Broken valve

Did you use the correct bolts when you installed the manifold? If the bolts are too long, who knows what damage they could do.

Was there something in the new manifold that is interfering with an intake valve?

As long as we are trying things/ideas, remove governor, operate carb throttle manually while running. Maybe gov coming apart kind of noise?

I'll pull the governor next trip out, but it seems to be working as it should , as I can hear it changing my speed on inclines.

(quoted from post at 17:12:07 08/03/16) It means you can get to them with a link, but they're not found
in a general search of YouTube as a "Public" video would be.
Not quite the same as "Unrated" thank goodness!

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tractor knocking without belt

Uploaded on Aug 3, 2016

Category [color=blue:4e70fffa72]Comedy[/color:4e70fffa72]

License Standard YouTube License