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water pump lube

Only if you are using plain water with no anti-freeze. In that case a rust inhibitor should also be used.
 
(quoted from post at 06:48:18 06/07/16) does adding water pump lube do any good or is it so much snake oil?

thanks.
Click to expand...

I have no scientific evidence , just my personal observation , but antifreeze has lubricating / rust preventative compounds that break down faster than the lifespan of the thermal elements .My gauge may say it is good to ten below but I don't know about the rust inhibitors .I have changed a few 4 & v6 water pumps on vehicles that had good service records documented that had a nasty build up of rust around the impeller and cavity .

I flush and replace my anti freeze every other year in my good motors and use the left overs for topping off old machinery . I use a water soluble synthic oil on my cold saw , so I add some to my used anti freeze .

If you follow the manufactures recommended servicing schedule you should not need anything extra . In most cases , if you feel you need to add something you would probably do better with a good vinegar flush and fresh anti freeze .I don't think that 5 year orange stuff lasted over 4 but that's another story .
 
Any decent permanent anti-freeze contains water pump lubricating additives.

If you change the anti-freeze every couple of years there is no need for any other coolant additives in your N.

Dean
 
(quoted from post at 08:43:27 06/07/16) Any decent permanent anti-freeze contains water pump lubricating additives.

If you change the anti-freeze every couple of years there is no need for any other coolant additives in your N.

Dean
Click to expand...

Very sound advice .
I would bet good money that over half of motor vehicle owners do not change there antifreeze until there is a cooling issue , unless they are still taking it to a dealer / under warranty. I would also bet less than ten percent even check it with a simple ball float gauge .

It is the " If it ain't broke don't fix it " concept .
 
At a more fundamental level, one might ask, lubricate what?, since if coolant gets to bearings, then it is leaking & needs pump replacement. I guess you could lubricate 'part' of a non-leaking seal?
 
My understanding is you are not lubricating bearing you are increasing the ability of to coolant to pass through the pump fins/vanes to reduce wear on the pump fins/vanes or housing.
 
(quoted from post at 12:33:18 06/07/16) My understanding is you are not lubricating bearing you are increasing the ability of to coolant to pass through the pump fins/vanes to reduce wear on the pump fins/vanes or housing.
Click to expand...
nhibit rust to keep surfaces smooth.
 
Steve........in the long ago time, you used to haffta add water pump lube. Wynn's was common brand. Looked like baby poop. Modern anti-freeze includes water pump lube, I wouldn't mucka round, but what ever pleases you, iff'n it makes you happy, doo itt.......HTH, the amazed Dell
 
You can add sca back in, this is what makes the protective barrier that inhibits corrosion, this is common in diesel engines to replenish them. Antifreeze never goes bad it only becomes contaminated or breaks down the sca package. When at a seminar once on diesels and antifreeze maintenance the instructor had mentioned how it never goes bad and I asked about what needs replenishing in gas engine antifreeze then and he said that just a small doses of the additive we use in the diesels would bring back that in very old antifreeze as long as it's not contaminated of course
 
(quoted from post at 14:05:23 06/07/16) You can add sca back in, this is what makes the protective barrier that inhibits corrosion, this is common in diesel engines to replenish them. Antifreeze never goes bad it only becomes contaminated or breaks down the sca package. When at a seminar once on diesels and antifreeze maintenance the instructor had mentioned how it never goes bad and I asked about what needs replenishing in gas engine antifreeze then and he said that just a small doses of the additive we use in the diesels would bring back that in very old antifreeze as long as it's not contaminated of course
Click to expand...

Your instructor needs to do some real research. When used as thermal transfer fluids aqueous ethylene/propylene glycol solutions undergo a thermal breakdown. The glycol compounds breakdown and form organic acids, most notably glycolic acid. When that happens the coolant becomes overly acidic and also loses it's ability to protect against freezing. When the pH of automotive coolant falls below 7.0 it is quite literally "worn out" and needs to be replaced. A brief synopsis of NIST research on the issue:

Thermal Degradation of Glycol Thermal Transfer Fluids

TOH
 

Every once in awhile I will run across a engine that is full of rust no matter how much you flush you will keep getting brown water out of it and no matter what you do the rust comes back... I flush as good as possible and dump a few cans of Max's water pump lube in them it does help with the rust issue...

Pontiac V8's use the be the worst for this. Some Fords like there V6 3.0"s and every now and again a Chebby 4.3...

I have never seen it hurt and have seen it help...

On older engines It was possible that at one time are another plan water was added instead of good coolant. I have always thought that may start a rust issue that once started could not be reversed are stopped unless some type of rust prevention was add like water pump lube.

I don't see were it will hurt and may help...
 

Drop a piece of cast drop it in vinegar for a few days take it out and see how fast it rust... It will supersize you... I am not sold on it because I did just that... Its starts a reaction that hard to reverse...
 
I would not run 100% water with out water pump lube.
Permanent anti freeze I figure has it built in.
We used Mac's 13, 50-65 years ago in water only vehicles.
 
Good info TOH, I was under the
impression that the sca package of
additives helps bring the ph back to
where it should be since our test strips
generally reflected that result?
 
(quoted from post at 09:19:20 06/08/16) Good info TOH, I was under the
impression that the sca package of
additives helps bring the ph back to
where it should be since our test strips
generally reflected that result?
Click to expand...

I am sure it does. This is a basic qualitative versus quantitative chemistry lab experiment.

The addition or formation of any buffering agent in the solution will raise the pH. It will neutralize the acids in the solution resulting in a higher pH but it won't reverse the degradation of the glycols. That is why the summary I provided notes that pH cannot be used as a reliable [u:12a7fd12e5]quantitative[/u:12a7fd12e5] measure of glycol degradation:

[i:12a7fd12e5][color=red:12a7fd12e5]Measurements of the pH of the final solution afforded no correlation between pH level and amount of degradation products. This was attributed to buffering due to metal complexes formed.[/color:12a7fd12e5][/i:12a7fd12e5]

However when you are starting with a "fresh" mix of coolant a pH test is a good [u:12a7fd12e5]qualitative[/u:12a7fd12e5] indicator. A pH below 7.0 tells you that SIGNIFICANT glycol degradation has occured in the mix. Once you start adding more buffers to that solution your pH test is telling you nothing about the cumulative magnitude of glycol degradation. All you are doing is raising the pH to help prevent corrosion and the glycol continues to degrade further creating more acids and necessitating additions of more buffers to counteract them. You are extending the service life of the coolant by maintaining a base pH using additional SCA's at the cost of ever increasing glycol degradation. Keep that cycle going long enough and you have some very degraded antifreeze.

TOH
 
(quoted from post at 09:07:02 06/08/16) I would not run 100% water with out water pump lube.
Permanent anti freeze I figure has it built in.
We used Mac's 13, 50-65 years ago in water only vehicles.
Click to expand...

Redline WaterWetter (has lube in it)
had a following at the dragstrip when I raced.

I was always tempted to try a bottle in a tractor ThermoSyphon system.
 

I use modern view I don't keep up with who reply to what :)...

BTW Water Pump lube want hurt a fudgen thang I am not sure what the big deal is about it... I think I will order a case and start PUt'N it in every thang I work on...
 
In response to Bob, I'll pass on the blinker fluid. My tractor,was made before blinkers were standard equipment . It would be a waste of money on my part. Thanks anyway. :lol:
 
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