8n Snow Blade: What R The Limits

Ultradogmn here on yesterdaystractor just provided a link to an ad for a tractor that has the front mount snow blade on it. Me and my husband have been thinking about a front-mount snow blade for a couple years. We really don't like the rear-mount blade because of constantly having to twist around to see what you're doing and so when we clicked on ultradogmn's link, and saw the front-mount blade again, we wanted to dig a little deeper on their in's n out's.

When a front-mount snow blade is mounted using the long frame which mounts to the rear of the tractor and extends to the front, is this type of setup still more for only plowing snow or shoving loose dirt or can it be rugged enough to actually do some digging/landscaping without being a burden on the tractor itself?





 
not UD but I have owned three of those setups over the years. all mounted on a 9N or 8N and operated with the 3pt lift arms. on level ground they all moved snow quite well as long as you had chains and/or weighted rear tires. never tried to move dirt or stones with the blades.

my biggest beef with those types of blades was they were mostly useless on uneven terrain and they did not lift very far off the ground.

FWIW
 
I have been studying the Dearborn frame to build me a push blade for limbs and fallen trees that are in the pasture where I need to mow . I did see the Bull Dozier blade attachment for the 19-1 frame .

I am wanting to maybe beef up the stabilizer bar pins and use them as an attachment point . I think my 3000 is about 6 inches longer , so I would like to make it fit both machines since the diesel is heavier with more power .

Any info on this thread would be helpful . I would assume there are lots of homemade variations out there .
 
my biggest beef with those types of blades was they were mostly useless on uneven terrain and they did not lift very far off the ground.

FWIW

Was the height limitation from the distance of the front pulleys or the amount of lift from the back end . I could build a wider frame and relocate the front pullies on the inside of the tubing if that would help .

Do you feel like the front brackets had much effect on side to side movement ?
 
I have a "Dearborn J-1" "bulldozer" (similar like 3rd picture) on my 1945 2N and use it for snowplowing, leveling gravel and pushing fallen trees in the woods. I have 6" implement tire on front, loaded tires on rear, with tire chains on rear.
Its very durable and I like it a lot. I am currently trying to mount depth guide wheels (like from a belly lawnmower)to keep the blade from digging in on unfrozen ground, when plowing snow, (Chain on rear mount set height and depth (like an 8N depth control), however dips and dives still cut in sometimes. Other limitation is it only raises 8 inches.
Things to watch for when buying one are, 1. front anti sway and cable connector for front axle, rear under fender mounts, for attaching and chain hooks for depth, spring on blade for snow high speed work. These usually went with tractor sale. I had to make all these items. Angle iron from tractor supply and weld slots, construct angle iron for front axle, springs for blade from a pickup snow blade.
I will try and send pictures of plowing and manual later.

Charles Krammin
 
(quoted from post at 08:31:32 04/27/16) I have a "Dearborn J-1" "bulldozer" (similar like 3rd picture) on my 1945 2N and use it for snowplowing, leveling gravel and pushing fallen trees in the woods. I have 6" implement tire on front, loaded tires on rear, with tire chains on rear.
Its very durable and I like it a lot. I am currently trying to mount depth guide wheels (like from a belly lawnmower)to keep the blade from digging in on unfrozen ground, when plowing snow, (Chain on rear mount set height and depth (like an 8N depth control), however dips and dives still cut in sometimes. Other limitation is it only raises 8 inches.
Things to watch for when buying one are, 1. front anti sway and cable connector for front axle, rear under fender mounts, for attaching and chain hooks for depth, spring on blade for snow high speed work. These usually went with tractor sale. I had to make all these items. Angle iron from tractor supply and weld slots, construct angle iron for front axle, springs for blade from a pickup snow blade.
I will try and send pictures of plowing and manual later.

Charles Krammin

Sounds great! Thanks Charles :)
 
I have a Dearborn blade for my 8N.

they built quite well and can push a lot of weigh. the way the frame is designed you are pushing off of the brackets under the rear axle. I pushed snow and some dirt with mine for 3 years I think.

lift height is a limitation. doesn't matter what you do, the frame can only lift till it hits the front axle. Also wouldn't want to be taking my N off-roading with that frame hanging under it.

When it was all I had, it was great. Now that I have a front plow on my 860 with down pressure, I couldn't really see myself going back to plowing with that
 
(quoted from post at 08:38:20 04/27/16) I have a Dearborn blade for my 8N.

they built quite well and can push a lot of weigh. the way the frame is designed you are pushing off of the brackets under the rear axle. I pushed snow and some dirt with mine for 3 years I think.

lift height is a limitation. doesn't matter what you do, the frame can only lift till it hits the front axle. Also wouldn't want to be taking my N off-roading with that frame hanging under it.

When it was all I had, it was great. Now that I have a front plow on my 860 with down pressure, I couldn't really see myself going back to plowing with that

Definitely nice to keep hearing that they can be used for some heavier duty work than just pushing snow!

We've been seeing how the Dearborn and Arps used a pulley and cable system than worked off of the 3-pt hitch to raise and lower the front blade. So how does the blade keep from getting raised up when shoving something... if there is only a cable and no actual solid latching system, then the blade can be shoved upward instead of staying at the height you want you at?
 
As you can see there is a difference between the dearborn blades. The 19-2 dozer blade is shorter and not as wide
and the 19-3 snowplow blade with the trip springs. Both blades have 3 to 4 hole to adjust the pitch for better
bite. The dozer blade will move dirt as well as snow. I have never moved dirt with the snowplow blade but moved a
lot of snow over the years.
I have both the dearborn 19-1 frame in your first photo and the ARPS frame in your second photo. I prefer the
ARPS frame. I have had dearborn frames that have been twisted.
Both frame are cable operated working off the 3pt and you will have no down pressure to dig
The big thing is to make sure you get all the bracket needed for mounting.
100_4307_zps3vdunb86.jpg
 
Some random thoughts about front blades:
As you can see in Kirks photos, the snow blade has trip springs and the dozer blade does not.
I never tried pushing dirt with the couple of snow blades I've had but can say that the dozer blade would be much more effective for pushing dirt.
The snow plow would want to trip before you got much dirt in front of it.
On the other hand, not having the trip means if you hit a hard object you will stop right NOW. Possibly causing damage to you and your equipment.
Because of the cantilever effect of having the snow plow (or dozer blade) mounted out in front you will have less traction on your rear tires. Either loaded tires, wheel weights
or both are a must. And in winter on snow and ice tire chains are also a must have. Any of these ford tractors when properly ballasted and chained will make a rather
remarkable little snow mover.
The N and Jubilee push frames all pushed from the rear axle.
On the 600 and newer tractors the push frame connected to the transmission as they had heavy mounting lugs that N an Jubes didn't have.
One disadvantage to the cable lift is it only lifts the blade about 8' off the ground. Generally you don't need more than that though I have gotten one hung up in a frozen snow
bank and had to get pulled off.
The hydraulic lift blades on later models will lift about twice that amount.
Some guys like down pressure. I do not.
I like to be able to steer.
If you look at snow plows built for trucks, pickups and equipment you will see that about 98% of them do not have down pressure.
When pushing snow into a pile the blade will ride up to it's max height and push the pile higher. Note the height of the snow bank behind the tractor in the photo.
Different tractor but same principle.
The exact same snow plow and dozer blade was used from about 1950 on the Dearborn frame till about 1970 on the Ford frames. Different tractors, different frames, different
colors and different means of lifting them but all the blades were basically identical and will interchange.

100_01311.jpg
 
We're actually not too concerned with a pressure-down set up, but what is very important is that the blade stays at the position we put it at since we don't want the blade having the ability to get raised up from what we're shoving. We understand that the hydraulic cylinder will keep pressure down on the blade and keep the blade from leaving that position but there should have been and should be a practical way of securing the position of the blade on the existing cable system.

The cable will only lift and lower the blade and since the cable isn't rigid but flexes, it doesn't secure the blade at the height you want it at.

Looks like we'll have to design a latching system where by we can 'lock' the blade in position after having selected the desired height.
 
(quoted from post at 07:16:32 04/28/16) We're actually not too concerned with a pressure-down set up, but what is very important is that the blade stays at the position we put it at since we don't want the blade having the ability to get raised up from what we're shoving. We understand that the hydraulic cylinder will keep pressure down on the blade and keep the blade from leaving that position but there should have been and should be a practical way of securing the position of the blade on the existing cable system.

The cable will only lift and lower the blade and since the cable isn't rigid but flexes, it doesn't secure the blade at the height you want it at.

Looks like we'll have to design a latching system where by we can 'lock' the blade in position after having selected the desired height.

I think you are over thinking this. the rear 3 pt of an N does not have down pressure, but folks have moved dirt with them since they came out.

ANYTHING you run on the back of your N has the ability to be raised up higher than where you set.

I think you are creating a problem that doesn't exist. yes with no downpressure the blade could raise, but in my years of using my blade for snow and light dirt I never had it raise up on me. I'd venture that if you got into a situation where the blade was raising up you are probably in a situation where a loader would be more appropriate
 
(quoted from post at 04:25:13 04/28/16)
(quoted from post at 07:16:32 04/28/16) We're actually not too concerned with a pressure-down set up, but what is very important is that the blade stays at the position we put it at since we don't want the blade having the ability to get raised up from what we're shoving. We understand that the hydraulic cylinder will keep pressure down on the blade and keep the blade from leaving that position but there should have been and should be a practical way of securing the position of the blade on the existing cable system.

The cable will only lift and lower the blade and since the cable isn't rigid but flexes, it doesn't secure the blade at the height you want it at.

Looks like we'll have to design a latching system where by we can 'lock' the blade in position after having selected the desired height.

I think you are over thinking this. the rear 3 pt of an N does not have down pressure, but folks have moved dirt with them since they came out.

ANYTHING you run on the back of your N has the ability to be raised up higher than where you set.

I think you are creating a problem that doesn't exist. yes with no downpressure the blade could raise, but in my years of using my blade for snow and light dirt I never had it raise up on me. I'd venture that if you got into a situation where the blade was raising up you are probably in a situation where a loader would be more appropriate

Well it's very possible that you're not reading everything that we have previously written in this post :) ...we're not wanting this to move "snow and light dirt".

We have a loader ready for a tractor but not going to put it on a 8n....waiting until we can afford a Ford 2000-4000 model tractor for that and it will be several years until we can save up enough to buy one and so for now we want to work on our 8n
 

I read exactly what you posted. you said "what is important to us is the blade stays where we put it"

and as I said, NO blade on an N- front or rear- is going to stay where you set it. They will all float. period. unless you modify the system to lock the blade down.

in your original post you used the word digging. I don't know what you call digging, but what I think of it as, no blade is going to dig.

my front blade will do anything my rear blade will do.
 
(quoted from post at 07:17:31 04/28/16)
I read exactly what you posted. you said "what is important to us is the blade stays where we put it"

and as I said, NO blade on an N- front or rear- is going to stay where you set it. They will all float. period. unless you modify the system to lock the blade down.

in your original post you used the word digging. I don't know what you call digging, but what I think of it as, no blade is going to dig.

my front blade will do anything my rear blade will do.

Redundancy?

You didn't read exactly what we said since we didn't just use the word "digging " as you said...we said "digging/landscaping" which clearly defines what we're wanting to do with the tractor and blade.

We already know that n-series blade won't keep from moving upward and so needs to be modified since we already said it.

you said "no blade is going to dig."

You clearly haven't got enough experience with blades then... we've been digging down into the ground with a blade and then scraping the dirt for years.
 
I have a homemade front blade setup I bought from a guy near Duluth, MN. It is heavy duty, uses a hydraulic cylinder to raise/lower. He told me his grandfather had built it to dig the basement for his house. I have only used it for snow, but with chains and loaded tires on my 8N, it will push snow that is drifted higher than the hood of the tractor!
 
(quoted from post at 08:11:18 04/28/16) I have a homemade front blade setup I bought from a guy near Duluth, MN. It is heavy duty, uses a hydraulic cylinder to raise/lower. He told me his grandfather had built it to dig the basement for his house. I have only used it for snow, but with chains and loaded tires on my 8N, it will push snow that is drifted higher than the hood of the tractor!

Definitely like how the hydraulic piston will keep the blade at the height we would want it to stay but with our particular situation, we didn't want the time of searching for one that's ready to hook up and the cost is a factor as well.

Now the Dearborn and Arps style frame is something me and my husband can fabricate especially since we already have the materials laying around.

In the mean time we already got one heck of a set of tire chains in the making, and the rear wheel weights are being delivered soon by my brother-in-law who got them for 65.00 outside of Cleveland. I MEAN WOOHOO 65.00 FOR THEM!
 
like I said we clearly have different definitions of digging.

I dig with a 20 ton track loader. scraping with a blade is just playing in my book
 
I've scrapped 4 or 5 or those over the years, 2 or 3 of them looked like new. The retired guy I got them from said they did not work well. At least 2 of the others were used in a dairy barn to push waste out the door-- so they could take a larger tractor and load it on the spreader. You know what they looked like.
 
While any tractor will do....anything...with a little thought,
ya gotta remember the design limits.
Tractors aren't bulldozers or excavators.
A front blade is what it is....a [i:90c9a17c6f]pusher[/i:90c9a17c6f] blade.
Get a slip-scoop for the back if you need to dig, then the blade to push it around.
Modify a blade so it can't move on a little tractor = broken tractor.

...and even though we all do it.....a loader isn't the answer either, when you need to [i:90c9a17c6f]dig[/i:90c9a17c6f] into undisturbed Earth...... Loaders carry stuff after the real digger...digs.

hint...if you have to use what you have....plow and disk the area first...bust that ground up. Then, blades, loaders, scoops work much better with less tractor breakage.
 
K-n-L....just logged in to YT and saw your post...the old pic of my 8N and frame was like seeing an old friend again.....

I sold that snow plow and bought one like UD shows in his link....now use it on an 860.....having used both types, I would get the hydraulic lift frame vs. pulley system if possible....blade with the trip springs will not move much dirt, but works great with snow...good luck..8N'r.
35543.jpg
 
Another option is to build something like this. Pick up an old truck/jeep plow. I seen them on craigslist for
$100 or so. You can run hydraulics off the test port, as in the second photo. chain or lock down the 3pt. I've
used this to move snow but not dirt so I can't see how it will do in dirt with a trip blade.
You can also run hdy lines off an old jeep Hi/Lo pump or some people use an atv winch.
Note; in the photo I had not finished running the angle iron back to the brackets under the back axle and the hyd
lines.

Kirk
100_0561.jpg
 
Here's the photo of the hydraulics. Quick disconnect was added so I could take off when the snow season was over.
100_3798_zpsdla1akdr.jpg
 
(quoted from post at 04:54:12 04/29/16) While any tractor will do....anything...with a little thought,
ya gotta remember the design limits.
Tractors aren't bulldozers or excavators.
A front blade is what it is....a [i:316b275e27]pusher[/i:316b275e27] blade.
Get a slip-scoop for the back if you need to dig, then the blade to push it around.
Modify a blade so it can't move on a little tractor = broken tractor.

...and even though we all do it.....a loader isn't the answer either, when you need to [i:316b275e27]dig[/i:316b275e27] into undisturbed Earth...... Loaders carry stuff after the real digger...digs.

hint...if you have to use what you have....plow and disk the area first...bust that ground up. Then, blades, loaders, scoops work much better with less tractor breakage.

One of the main problems with a scoop for the back of the tractor is that we don't want the obvious inconvenience of having to keep turned around to see what we're doing behind us.

Although front-mounted blades may not have been designed to go down below the ground surface, we have used cub cadet 128 as well as cubcadet/farmall low-boy to do A LOT of landscaping that consisted of digging the blade down in below the surface and plow/scrape/push it out with no damage to the tractor what-so-ever. The key is foreseeing where your grandfather might have used some old bricks as fill so that you don't ram yourself into the steering wheel when you find them with the blade :wink:
 

Well we're now considering the front-mount blade with hydraulic cylinder since Kirk replied showing some pics and possibly a fairy inexpensive way to do it, but we were concerned with how much stress this way does to the front axle since it would be putting the pressure directly to it and nothing else.
 
(quoted from post at 01:34:44 04/30/16) Another option is to build something like this. Pick up an old truck/jeep plow. I seen them on craigslist for
$100 or so. You can run hydraulics off the test port, as in the second photo. chain or lock down the 3pt. I've
used this to move snow but not dirt so I can't see how it will do in dirt with a trip blade.
You can also run hdy lines off an old jeep Hi/Lo pump or some people use an atv winch.
Note; in the photo I had not finished running the angle iron back to the brackets under the back axle and the hyd
lines.

Kirk
100_0561.jpg

Thanks! Nice to see the pictures so it gives a really good idea of it!

Do you think that having this would be a bit too much stress on the front axle since it is the only thing that the blade is mounted to? Hmmmm maybe we could run a support from each side of it back to the rear axle to take some of the stress off of the front axle?
 

Oooops just seen where you said that you were running the supports back to the rear axle but haven't finished them yet. Also see in the picture where you have the hole drilled for it :)
 
You need a dozer get a dozer. A blade on the front of a tractor is only going to move soil that has already been loosened up unless you really want to break something on the tractor. Then it isn't going to do that the best as it's outside the design parameters of the tractor. Plus it's hard on the equipment.

Heck I own a tractor loader backhoe. No not something with add an on but a dedicated unit. The front loader doesn't dig well. It's not designed to. The hoe is designed to dig. The loader is designed to move loose material.

Heck I was using my D4 yesterday and sometimes the tracks would spin and that's in sandy loam soil!

Rick
 
As I said the phot was take as I put it together and hadn't yet added the angle iron back to the rear back axle
bracket. You can not just hang it off the front. In must be supported at the rear axle.

Kirk
 
(quoted from post at 11:36:09 04/28/16) I've scrapped 4 or 5 or those over the years, 2 or 3 of them looked like new. The retired guy I got them from said they did not work well. At least 2 of the others were used in a dairy barn to push waste out the door-- so they could take a larger tractor and load it on the spreader. You know what they looked like.

You know you'd have to be a foolish person if you are getting scrap price for items that bring far more money than that. I've seen those blades sell for 400-600 bucks. And for how much the weigh in at they at best are not worth 50 bucks when scrap is extremely high. So you are telling us that you just throw them away? I mean it's not like an AC item that wasn't worth anything new and much less now. Now me? I hate AC products and really consider them to be one of the most inferior products to have ever hit the market. I have scrapped a few of em. But if I were to come into possession of a snap coupler implement I'd list it because people pay good money for that junk.

Rick
 
I should add that you may be money ahead depending on how much soil you want to move to rent something that will efficiently do the work or to hire it done. Often with renting a person will exceed the cost of hiring because they don't know how to get the work done needed and wind up keeping the rental unit far longer that originally planned on.

Even the dozer blade for the Fords were only meant to move loose soil like in back filling a trench.

But if you do go ahead with your plans slow and steady. Little bites at a time will greatly reduce the likelihood of a breakdown.

Rick
 
Reading your original post, I can identify with having a kink in the neck looking back at a rear blade. Pictured is a heavy duty rear blade I turned into a front blade 17 years ago. It's bomb proof. I plow 6' of snow a year with it, move gravel, brush and vehicles. But can I dig dirt with it, no. Rent something if you need to do that.
35551.jpg
 
(quoted from post at 07:27:23 04/30/16) As I said the phot was take as I put it together and hadn't yet added the angle iron back to the rear back axle
bracket. You can not just hang it off the front. In must be supported at the rear axle.

Kirk

If you read our comment right after our comment that you replied to, you'll see that we said "Oooops just seen where you said that you were running the supports back to the rear axle but haven't finished them yet. Also see in the picture where you have the hole drilled for it :)"
 
(quoted from post at 07:10:27 04/30/16) You need a dozer get a dozer. A blade on the front of a tractor is only going to move soil that has already been loosened up unless you really want to break something on the tractor. Then it isn't going to do that the best as it's outside the design parameters of the tractor. Plus it's hard on the equipment.

Heck I own a tractor loader backhoe. No not something with add an on but a dedicated unit. The front loader doesn't dig well. It's not designed to. The hoe is designed to dig. The loader is designed to move loose material.

Heck I was using my D4 yesterday and sometimes the tracks would spin and that's in sandy loam soil!
Rick

We don't need a dozer and even if we did, not everyone has the spare cash to just go out and buy one.

"A blade on the front of a tractor is only going to move soil that has already been loosened up unless you really want to break something on the tractor."

Anyone must not be very experienced if they say that... we have used small 1970's cub cadet 128's and a Cubcadet/Farmall low-boy for years to dig up the ground with their blades and haven't broke or damaged anything on them. This includes putting them into high gear and ramming the ground to get the blade started in as well as then continuing to scrape/push/plow out the rest.
 
(quoted from post at 07:35:50 04/30/16)
(quoted from post at 11:36:09 04/28/16)

You know you'd have to be a foolish person if you are getting scrap price for items that bring far more money than that. I've seen those blades sell for 400-600 bucks. And for how much the weigh in at they at best are not worth 50 bucks when scrap is extremely high. So you are telling us that you just throw them away? I mean it's not like an AC item that wasn't worth anything new and much less now. Now me? I hate AC products and really consider them to be one of the most inferior products to have ever hit the market. I have scrapped a few of em. But if I were to come into possession of a snap coupler implement I'd list it because people pay good money for that junk.

Rick

Definitely agree with you Rick... although I'm not sure how it is across the whole country but here in the tri-state area of Ohio West Virginia and Pennsylvania, everywhere we have called so far is telling us the same thing that these blades whether Dearborn or Arps will easily sell on average for between 400-600.00 and the sellers don't have them for long.
 
(quoted from post at 13:23:17 04/30/16)
(quoted from post at 07:35:50 04/30/16)
(quoted from post at 11:36:09 04/28/16)

You know you'd have to be a foolish person if you are getting scrap price for items that bring far more money than that. I've seen those blades sell for 400-600 bucks. And for how much the weigh in at they at best are not worth 50 bucks when scrap is extremely high. So you are telling us that you just throw them away? I mean it's not like an AC item that wasn't worth anything new and much less now. Now me? I hate AC products and really consider them to be one of the most inferior products to have ever hit the market. I have scrapped a few of em. But if I were to come into possession of a snap coupler implement I'd list it because people pay good money for that junk.

Rick

Definitely agree with you Rick... although I'm not sure how it is across the whole country but here in the tri-state area of Ohio West Virginia and Pennsylvania, everywhere we have called so far is telling us the same thing that these blades whether Dearborn or Arps will easily sell on average for between 400-600.00 and the sellers don't have them for long.

I think that's pretty much the average across most of the country that is unless you are hd6tom then it's only worth scrap price. Wish he was going to be here on Monday to see me haul there 2 running AC's over to crush.

Rick
 
I have an ARPS blade with a dearborn frame I would sell for $300. Don't see them going for much more then $400/
$450 around here but in the winter put 6" on the ground with another foot on the way and the numbers could go up.

Kirk
 

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