OT...there is this 600-800 series Ford sitting in the weeds

lastcowboy32

Well-known Member
On my way back and forth to work, I noticed this old ford.

It's a 600-800 series, I'm guessing; because it has what I call the "bullseye emblem" in the front above the grill.

It's just sitting there. The weeds are growing around it. It's listing to its right side from a right tire that must be completely dry rotted and flat.

I already have a 2N. I have a friend with a 640 that I've done some favors for (fixed his steering box, converted from 6V to 12V, added a hydraulic remote....); so I'm a little familiar with that type.

I'm thinking that I'd like to stop in and ask about that old tractor.

Assuming that it has a three point hitch and PTO. Knowing that the tires are probably shot all the way around.

What number would you start with (roughly) in your head?

What flaw would be fatal in your mind? For instance, if the engine is seized, but there are no cracks in the block...big deal? But if the block is obviously cracked...do you just walk away?

For salvage, is there possibly anything there that could bolt up to my 2N? As in, would it be worth just bringing it home (if the price was right) to have some extra parts around???

I don't expect any hard answers here, just maybe a few thoughts. Obviously, whether or not to buy this or even try to is a "fuzzy" decision, guided by fuzzy logic.
 
Also, where did the two stage clutch come in to the Ford models?

Was it the "1" series? As in 641 vs 640

Was it the Jubilee?

If it was a model with a two stage clutch, that's kind of handy for PTO work. If the engine block was shot, but the back end was good....would my 2N engine have any hope of bolting up to it?
 
Non runner, bad tires, good tin, loose engine, maybee 300.

Siezed or non perfect tin 150-200

Runs, bad tires.. 1500 ish, depending on tin and wear level

Ps, your bullseye hood emblem could be a naa as well. Check out the rear hubs to see if it has nutz... Boys are naa and have nutz.. Gurls have no nuts and are dished or slotted hubs and are 55+ 00/01
 
Live clutch for 55+ models with a 6 as the middle model number digit. Ie, 660
your 640/641 reference is a 4 spd trans, single, non live clutch.

Could your 2n engine bolt up? Sure, for about 2509$ of custom fabrication and engineering you cold bolt up the inferior under powered engine to the 53+ rear, and then have a weak mutt if a half useless tractor, and half of a 2n.

Or you could take the 2500$ and buy a real running tractor, or take the 2509$ and alot of work and parts, and probably some heartache judging on this question, and rebuild and refurbish the 53+ tractor.

your call!
 

By "that"...I mean anything to do with just using the rear end with my 2N's motor. Yeah...if there was ANY customization required....not worth it to me.
 
They are outstanding small tractors. The
biggest standard upgrade on them over an N
is the live hydraulics. Some will have
optional live PTO and power steering. They
will be quite familiar to someone who's
owned an N. Parts are readily available -
new and used but used will not be as
plentiful as N parts. Especially tin.
But just like a hulk N, a hulk Hundred can
be a huge money pit if you had to rebuild
the engine, find new tin, put rubber on it,
etc. If a hulk N is worth $400 - $500 a Hulk
Hundred is worth $800 -$900 so not a lot of
difference on the down stroke.
Ask to take some photos of it and post them
here or on the Ford board. Get some good
general aspect photos of it. Take a photo of
the gear stick so we can ID the type of
tranny. Look for any Sherman handles and
whether it has the power steering cylinders
hooked up on the sides to the tie rods.
The model and serial number is hand stamped
into the top of the transmission - just
above and behind the starter. You might have
to scrape off some paint or crud to see it.
Write it down as that will help a lot to I'D
it.
 

Gotcha now. Looked up "Ford NAA" and "Ford 660" and looked through a bunch of photos.

Both have 8 nuts that bolt the rim onto the hub.

Only the NAA has a visible king nut in the middle on the drive shaft itself.
 

Ultradog. All good advice.

I also wanted to have my head screwed on straight and be ready to work off the cuff.

If somebody has it sitting there on their lawn for that long, there might be something odd going on. There's some other stuff laying around the place, like a pickup that hasn't been moved since Carter was President.

Sometimes, people like that might have something that's worth buying, and if you just strike up a conversation, they might feel good about selling it.

Or

If I start asking to take a bunch of pictures and crawling all over it and saying that I'll get back to him after a couple of days....maybe he'll start thinking that I'm trying to see if it's some real antique barn find, and I'm trying to take something really really valuable off of his hands.

It looks like it's been there for a while. I'm thinking that I need to make some good judgments right up front about the machine and the person.
 

I will see, though. If it seems like the owner is OK with it, I would definitely like to know more rather than less. Some pictures, serial number, model number would all help.

I also just went to Smith's change history page to somewhat prioritize what I'm looking at and in what order.

I'm going to look at the hubs first. For NAA vs Hundred or Later.
Then see if I can catch a model number....I would really like to see the second number be a 6. That's important to me.

Then I'm going to look at the shifting lever. I don't know if I want anything to do with Select-O-Speed. The reason that I like these old tractors is simplicity.

If it's a 660, 860, 661 or 861...I'm immediately interested.

Other versions, for various reasons might still be worth buying...but those four models would be right in my sweet spot.

If it isn't 660, 860, 661 or 861....I'm also more likely to want to ask to get some serial number info and do a little more research to see if it's something that I want.
 
If they let you in to see it do this at a
minimum:
Get the serial/model #s off the tranny.
Pinch the fan belt tight and try to rock the
engine. Look for Shermans. Look at the tin,
fenders and tires, rims too (bad rust),
external 3 point stuff. Check the water for
oil and oil for water. You have an N so can
evaluate that stuff well enough.
Also check for PS cylinders on each side.
A complete PS system for that model will
easily sell for $800 - $1K.
If you can't read the model look closely at
the trans shift lever. 5 speeds have an odd
dog leg looking shifter. 5 sp can't
/won't have a Sherman.
 
Check to see if it has a carburetor :)
They did build those in diesel.
Sometimes you can not read the model/serial.
If it has the dog leg shifter look closely
at the the clevis for the clutch arm.
Live PTO will have a double clevis there - 2
holes in the clevis.
Photo shows a later model Ford clevis/arm
but a Hundred is similar.
100_1759.jpg
 

That's nice to know. I like the live PTO. That's the biggest thing.

Any one of them with the (what I've learned is called) the "cyclops" front grill will have live hydraulics, which could be rigged up to run a remote.

I've run a baler and a 7' haybine with a 640 with a remote added. It works fine for the most part. It's just a little of a pain though when you hit plugs or things where you want to stop. I instinctively push the clutch to stop forward motion....but then the PTO stops too...so, instead of clearing the plug from the haybine/baler...it usually gets even worse.

I keep an extremely sharp jackknife (and spare shear pins) for just such an event.

So...

If this tractor was a 640, 650, 641, 651, 840, 850, 841, 851....I would still be interested, if the price and other conditions were right.

But seeing the live PTO would make me forgive a lot more other shortcomings. I'd be willing to do a little more work to add a tractor with live PTO to the mix.

The trick about pinching the fan belt and trying to rotate the engine is interesting...thanks.
 
I lucked into an 860 last April. found mine by chance, and while its not pretty, mechanically its in perfect shape.

Studying Smiths website is a good start. Like most have already said, the model number is the easier way to know what the tractor is.

Rear axle nuts would quickly rule in/out an NAA.

Shifter is next easiest 4 spd, 5 spd, and selectospeed each have a unique shifter. NO 4 spds have live pto. 5 spd is 50/50 chance, and all SOS have independent PTO. If its 5 spd, check the clevis, and sometimes even looking at the clutch pedal can be an identifier- on my 860 the clutch pedal is WAY off the floorboard.

having owned one of each tractor just about (640, 860, and 871) for me if I had to pick one tractor to do it all, it would be the 860. 5 speed shifter is pretty slick once you get used to it, I really liked it for plowing snow- just rocking back and forther between 3rd and reverse.

that said, for brush cutting I do like the SOS. its just like cutting with a really big lawnmower. I can shift up and down on the fly so I can be in a lower gear for tight spaces, then when I get into an open field I click it up 1 or 2. but I don't think I would want to plow snow with an SOS and have to keep going between forward and reverse constantly
 
as far as value. I don't know where some guys claim to buy these tractors for under 500. none of those in my area.

its pretty hard to put a value on something with this many variables but a ballpark for the condition you described would be 500-1000
 

Value, and beauty, are in the eye of the beholder. :)

That's why I'm just asking for a few people to bounce an opinion out there. All of the information, even little tidbits, matters...for instance...someone mentioned that it's harder to get parts for these tractors than, say, an 8N....I would have never guessed that.
 
You have used your SOS a lot more than I have mine.
But they put the SOS into a lot of lot of loader and
TLB tractors for back and forth loader work. Even
had a couple of lockout plates you could put in the
shifter for that purpose - shuttle shift.
Not arguing with experience here. I have maybe 10
hours on that transmission - none of it shuttle
work. Just surprised to hear you say that you
wouldn't use it for snow plowing.
 
Yeah its not that I wouldn't use it, just wouldn't choose it over a normal trans for the type of plowing I do. there is a lot of stopping and turning around and short pushes the way I have to plow.

the flick of the wrist between R and 3rd on the 5 speed would be the same as shifting between R1 and 6th on a SOS. just too much shifting have to move through all those gears. plus on the early SOS like mine, 6th is a coasting gear.

we have an international TLB with a shuttle shift and I'd pick that over an SOS any day for that type of work.

I think the SOS has its place. jobs with lots of forward motion it cant be beat. but anything with lots of changes of direction I wouldn't want it
 
(quoted from post at 11:46:14 04/25/16) Yeah its not that I wouldn't use it, just wouldn't choose it over a normal trans for the type of plowing I do. there is a lot of stopping and turning around and short pushes the way I have to plow.

the flick of the wrist between R and 3rd on the 5 speed would be the same as shifting between R1 and 6th on a SOS. just too much shifting have to move through all those gears. plus on the early SOS like mine, 6th is a coasting gear.

we have an international TLB with a shuttle shift and I'd pick that over an SOS any day for that type of work.

I think the SOS has its place. jobs with lots of forward motion it cant be beat. but anything with lots of changes of direction I wouldn't want it


I wonder if what you're saying is the difference between a "reverser", which keeps ground speed equal while changing direction with a simple lever throw; and something akin to an automatic transmission, which allows you to shift between any gear you want, but going forward to reverse still means that you go through all of the gears in between on the shifter.

Is that what you're getting at?
 
(quoted from post at 11:46:14 04/25/16) Yeah its not that I wouldn't use it, just wouldn't choose it over a normal trans for the type of plowing I do. there is a lot of stopping and turning around and short pushes the way I have to plow.

the flick of the wrist between R and 3rd on the 5 speed would be the same as shifting between R1 and 6th on a SOS. just too much shifting have to move through all those gears. plus on the early SOS like mine, 6th is a coasting gear.

we have an international TLB with a shuttle shift and I'd pick that over an SOS any day for that type of work.

I think the SOS has its place. jobs with lots of forward motion it cant be beat. but anything with lots of changes of direction I wouldn't want it


I'm just thinking about cars. If I'm stuck in the snow and need to rock back and forth quickly, I need to stop the wheels in between anyway. In that situation, with a good shifting manual transmission, I can get from forward to reverse and back just as well as with an automatic. I actually prefer it. I always feel like it does more harm to the automatic than the manual. It always seems like the linkage is loosening up with each cycle back and forth. (that's definitely a subjective statement)
 

My 69 4000 came with sos trans and for mowing, square baling and tillage it was great, but for shuttle work and round balers it didn't work well, sos don't like to take off at high engine rpms (forward or backwards) and the operators manual says start off at low rpm then increase engine speed. I installed a throttle foot pedal on it for shuttle work and took the fluid out of the rear tires so when I had to take off with engine rpms up it would spin rather than jerk real hard. My first round baler didn't have a bale kicker so I had to back up to dump the bales, if I slowed the rpm to back up it wouldn't rap the twine correctly. After 10 years and three transmission tear downs I converted it over to a 8x2, it's been my main tractor for nearly 30 years.

I grew up on a 850 and IMO the five spd is one of the best small tractor transmissions there is. Wish ours had the two stage clutch but even without it, it was better than a four spd
 
Yes that's what I am talking about. Too many gears to shift thru between R1 and 6th. And if you jug tried to flip between R1 and 1st, you're crawling.

If you're mowing and only changing forward gears, it's fine. Pop up or down as needed.
 
Last of the Cowboys,

"cyclops", "Bulls eye" . . .

I see my front emblem as though I'm looking at 50's Ford car and truck styling . . . like a bumperette on a grille. Henry had his car stylists design the tractor's look.

35435.jpg
35436.jpg
35437.jpg
 
Thanks Joe. Always learning something new
here.
I know the 3 cyl industrials like the 4500
used a 4 speed manual with torque converter.
They had shuttle shift - an extra handle on
the dash to shift from forward to reverse.
Shift on the fly - back and forth, back and
forth. No shifting or clutching, etc.
 
to me, the hundred series is about twice a 2n, but there is a reason that one is just sitting, you need to find out what it is, a blown engine or bad sos transmission ect is a deal breaker , there are good ones out there, for much less than the cost of fixing either of those 2 problems, if the sos can even be fixed, as for common parts i dont think anything swaps, its a whole different tractor
 
(quoted from post at 01:26:40 04/26/16) Thanks Joe. Always learning something new
here.
I know the 3 cyl industrials like the 4500
used a 4 speed manual with torque converter.
They had shuttle shift - an extra handle on
the dash to shift from forward to reverse.
Shift on the fly - back and forth, back and
forth. No shifting or clutching, etc.

My 4500 is a 69 model that has a manual reverser with a clutch, it has three forward gears and two reverses plus high and low range giving a total of six forward and four reverse gears that require using the clutch like any other manual trans tractor for all gears changes.
Models like mine don't have shuttle shift, it's all done with the main shifters
Not sure what year they started using torque convertors.
 

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