8n governor issue?

So I did the whole tuneup shebang yesterday and the tractor runs great! That is, until I hit some thicker grass or start up a hill. The tractor will start to surge hard when going up the hill and almost die. This is in first gear at full throttle, which is how i was mowing. It doesnt seem like to governor is doing anything at all.
I wasnt sure if it was the gov or not, so i stopped the brush hog, put the tractor in 2nd gear at half throttle and went up the incline. It still hesitated and surged up the hill even if i moved the throttle to full while it was doing that. It is also leaking oil from the governor.

A couple other things:
The carb had a bit of frost on the outside, is that normal from the change in state of the fuel inside the carb?

When i moved the carb to gov rod, it feels like the ends are spring loaded, normal?

I have no throttle response for about a third of the quadrant.

I did a fuel flow test and it pours out steady, i let a half gallon run out of the carb and it was a solid stream the whole time.

It appears that all of my symptoms point to a worn, broken, and out of adjustment governor.

Thoughts?
 
It was doing the same thing before. If you move the throttle, both the governor arms move together. Also, the manual says to adjust a loose spring for no throttle response, but the spring is not loose.

The arms move until the springiness (?) In the gov to carb rod is taken up then it increases the engine rpm.
 

the springs in the rods is to be able to hook them up to the balls. It should not be springy over the total length.
If the spring is not loose, adjust it. It should not have tension on it but should not be loose either.

maybe you need a new gov to carb rod? I will take a look at my two and see what they do, If it quits raining that is!!
 
Its like the rod can shift back and forth in between the spring loaded ends. With the govenor unhooked, i can rev it all the way up no issues. It also does not pull back when i manipulate the rod either.
 
I went out and started up one of mine. The arms do NOT move together when I increase the throttle. When At idle, and I move to increase the speed, the long arm moves a lot and the short arm will start to slowly moves which increase RPMs
If at full throttle and I move the short rod to increase RPMs the Governor pushes back and at that time the spring end on the short rod will extend.
35378.jpg
35379.jpg

the first photo is at idle and second at full throttle.
Hopes this helps.
 
I took a video to show how much the long arm moves compared to the short one, but could not get it small enough to post on here. Something I need to learn.
 
On your second picture, my short governor arm (the gov to carb arm) always stays behind the long arm, like it is at idle in your first picture. Looks like i need to tear it apart.
 
" It also does not pull back when i manipulate the rod either."

Time to rebuild the gov. Usually due to flat (worn) spots on the balls.
 
I did notice while setting the carb up yesterday, that with the low idle throttle screw all the way out it still idled a bit high. Should it idle at all with that screwed out all the way?
 

Remember the idle mixture screw is an air adjustment. Use it in combination with the speed adjustment on the back side. If the throttle shaft is worn, you may not get a real low idle due to the air being sucked in past the worn shaft.
 
(quoted from post at 16:10:08 04/24/16) Whats the best place to buy a kit, or should i open it up and see if its just the balls?

take a look on EBay. I could not find much on this site. nnalert has parts and kit.
 
Pics are sideways, but the first one is full throttle.

35389.jpg

This second picture is half throttle.

35390.jpg


I pulled the governor, how easy should the gear be to turn? It sounds like the balls are bouncing around inside the case.
 
Took it apart, cant find anything wrong. The washer and shim measurement is .260". Manual says .220-.230. My calipers may be out of whack too.

Here are some pictures of the inside. All i can see is i side the case a small wear spot, like a little ring all the way around the inside housing wall.
Lower race
35394.jpg


Upper race
35395.jpg


Case wall
35396.jpg


If i can see markings on the upper race, but no flat spots or anything is that still bad? It looks like its polished, not worn flat.
 
I just found a different thread where they talked about the gov to carb rod moving inside the sleeves on the end before transferring power to the carb, causing first third quadrant no throttle reponse. Wouldnt that also eliminate the governor being able to govern with that rod smashed wide open, or am i thinking wrong?
 
(quoted from post at 20:22:37 04/24/16) I just found a different thread where they talked about the gov to carb rod moving inside the sleeves on the end before transferring power to the carb, causing first third quadrant no throttle reponse. Wouldnt that also eliminate the governor being able to govern with that rod smashed wide open, or am i thinking wrong?

Mine moves as a unit without causing the springs to move unless I force it. It does not take much movement of the throttle to increase the rpm. with apart i believe the arms should move separately. At least in one direction.
 
Im talking about the spring loaded caps that hook on the balls on the gov to carb rod, they will move on the little springs in the caps before they bottom out and cause the throttle to increase.
 
It sounds like you need to replace both arms(throttle to governor and governor to carb- the spring loaded caps do wear) and get a rebuild kit for the governor. There should be no "lost" motion in any of these parts as this will affect movement on the throttle plate. The governor spring should also fit snug on the two loops it connects to.
 
If the springs are shot or broke I could see that happensing. I got an old one hanging in the shop, rusty as heck but the springs are still strong.
 
After careful consideration, i have a game plan.

My carburetor needs a full clean and rebuild. I cannot get it to idle at 400 rpm, more like 700. (Checked with my blue point meter and inductive pickup) The idle mix and idle speed screw have zero effect no matter what i do. So i need to sort that out first.

My governor has .030" too much gap on the shaft with the shims per the manual. The fork in the governor is also worn on the two flats about .015" or so. The balls and races look near perfect. My father in law is a machinist and he checked the balls and races with a dial indicator, couldnt find any dips or worn spots on the races. I will order shims to get the proper measurement and reassemble.

The throttle to governor and governor to carb rods have a lot of play in the spring caps. I will replace both rods.

I think after cleaning the carb, shimming the governor shaft to spec, and then setting the governor and carburetor to manual specifications i should be good to go. Now to order some parts!

Any experience from dennis carpenter for the carb kits and rods?
 
Nothing wrong with this site for carb kits. Make sure you get a new throttle shaft and seals, that could be one source of your high idle.
 
I ordered the parts through this site, got the comprehensive rebuild kit. Tore the carb down and i can already tell the idle adjust needle has a groove worn in it, the main jet needle was rusty and the economizer jet was plugged. The main needle, throttle shaft, and choke all were missing the seals.

Fuel flow from the tank seems slow too, it pours a stream but barely, like a faucet that is turned on enough to pour in the sink without dripping. Is that good? I think i will replace the fuel line and the tank valve and sediment bowl.

All the carb parts are soaking in 50/50 pine sol and water.
 
Got the carb all rebuilt and the governor shimmed. It will idle down ar 420 rpm as measured by my digital multimeter, and high rpm is 2150 so im leaving that. Now the gov works when i hit the brakes and try to drive forward.

Only issue now is its hard to start. I have gone through the carb adjustments 5 times and its still hard to start. Any ideas?

Low idle setting used to be about 900 rpm.
 

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