water temp guage 9N

Hello, please, I need some advice as to connecting a water temp guage. I removed the upper radiator hose and see no area to connect a sending unit. Is there a change out part for the upper hose connection to the head or possibly a spot on the block? I did not see any thermostat in the radiator hose, I assume it is recommended to run one. Thanks in advance

do use a thermostat.

as for a temp sender.

If you feel you must have one.. pull the head and machine for one. there are posts in the archive.

a poor mans backyard fix is to make up a piece of pipe with a fitting for a sender in it and place that in the upper hose kinda like the way you do a lower hose heater..

the thermostat is needed.. the sender really aint.

later replacement heads may even have a flattened boss where a sender would go.. perhaps for an industrial setup.

soundguy

Thanks for the reply. I like the idea about a poor mans spot for the sending unit...I certainly qualify. Maybe I am over cautious, I just would hate to have it overheat when I could monitor a guage and hopefully shut things down before any damage. Make sense?

yes and no.

yes a guage is good. but you will start spitting rad fluid before it gets tooooooo hot.. and that's a pretty good visual cue!

soundguy

General consensus is no temp gauge needed on an N. I've got 7 of em. And a couple I work pretty hard. Never had any cooling problems.

OK, you have convinced me, spitting rad fluid makes sense. Thanks both of you

the rad on an n is oversized compaired to the engine. keep it clean externally, and keep coolant and water at proper mix and level and you are good to go. near a million 9-2-8ns were made. none had temp gauges.. plenty of them still going.

soundguy

I have made a lot of the hose adapters for different gauge setups. If you have the tubing and all it takes all of 15 minutes to make one. I have also made oil temp adapters for oil pans and hydraulic systems. Not near as hard as some think it is and I am a gauge nut. I want to know what everything on my equipment is doing. Example: Last year suddenly noticed a little oil pressure drop but a big oil temp rise with just a slight rise in the engine temp. I had place the sender for my oil temp about where the oil return of the top of the head flows in. I watched it as the water temp was about 190, it was 110 outside air temp. Engine had been running about 160-170 all day. oil temp got up to almost 240 engine temp was 195. Called for the other tractor and had the 841 taken home. Next day I pulled the oil drain and didn't notice much so started it and wow rod knock. Pulled pan and found rod bearing had spun.
took it to the machine shop and all they had to do was polish the crank and clean a bit of bearing material from the oil hole on the crank. We went back in with a new bearing and was back in the field the next day. What had happened was that the bearing had flaked and the hole in the bearing had gotten plugged by the material its self. Never had seen it before, but then again there's a lot of things in this world I haven't seen. The machinist told me that if I hadn't shut it down when I did I would have had to turn the crank and instead of an inframe repair, it would have been a complete overhaul. I have had the engine temp gauge go a lot hotter when I have plugged up radiators with grass seed and plant leaf etc. but what tipped me off that there was a problem was the oil temp running high. So that's why I want to know as much as I can. Others may feel differently and that,s cool. I understand collectors and preservationists but as an operator, the operating condition of my equipment is first on the list of priorities. LarryT

The cooling system in an N is more then what is needed to prevent overheating. In fact I think it is to big to get a clean block warm enough in the winter to evaporate the condensation in the oil system. My rebuilt 1949 8N has a temperature gauge installed in the block and a 160 degree thermostat. When the temperature is 30 degrees or less I can't get the gauge to read more then around 140 degrees, even after pushing snow for a couple of hours. I now block off part of the radiator until the gauge reads 160 degrees. Last spring when I changed oil I found that brown goo in the oil fill tube. So far with the blocked off radiator no goo.

Lee, here's an option for a sending unit placement. Used to be a brass drain cock on my 50 8N. If the drain cock is on your tractor.



Removed the drain cock, bought a cheap gauge, and viola', ability to monitor coolant temp. The main reason I added the temp gauge had to do with adding a proofmeter, the dash I got off ebay had a wallowed out hole for a switch where the temp gauge is now. The light switch is just to the left of the temp gauge, above the 12V power outlet. I'm a gauge nut like LarryT, too. It looks soooo much better with a gauge there anyways.



The temperature indicated in the picture above was after backblading snow for an hour or so on Thursday. Air temps were in the low teens. When working hard in summer, the gauge shows about 200. Quite a range when operating, but what the heck? My wife's 03 Ford pick-up has a temp gauge, too. It shows a "normal" operating range. What temperature is normal? :lol: Have fun with it Lee. HTH Mark

Really appreciate the info. Do you know anything about water pump lubricant added to the coolant? My Dad past and I started working on the 9N and thought there was engine oil in the coolant. Then I found a can of water pump lub in his garage. Anyway I have the radiator at the shop being fixed/checked out, not sure if I should add a can of this stuff or not whne I put it back together. I was thinking of changing the water pump since I have it tore down. Thanks for the replies

Briar Hill, that is one nice set up and many thanks for the pics. I guess I am a little over cautious, but I feel better when I know the state of the engine fluids. I do see that Ford evidently over engineered the coolant system. Seems a guage would be a logical option, but if I knew that much I would be an engineer

My 9N has a backhoe on it and I am tryng to revitalize it some. I doubt if it will ever get much work in the winter, but I will remember about blocking off the radiator. Brown goo would bother me. Thanks

THAT IS AN EXCELLENT REPLY. I am the same way about wanting to know what is going on in the engine. An in frame repair was a blessing and your oil temp guage saved the day. Good to have this interchange of info. My radiator should be done Tuesday and we will see how it goes,,,,many thanks again

The 8N head has a bung that you can drill and tap for the sender. Even though they don't have the bung I have drilled and tapped 9,2N heads in the same area and it works.

(quoted from post at 00:40:33 02/06/11) Hello, please, I need some advice as to connecting a water temp guage. I removed the upper radiator hose and see no area to connect a sending unit. Is there a change out part for the upper hose connection to the head or possibly a spot on the block? I did not see any thermostat in the radiator hose, I assume it is recommended to run one. Thanks in advance

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Most every vehicle you own has a over built cooling system, oil sump are charging system so you can disconnect all of your gauges/lights,,, no need to worry are inconvenience your self with them.

http://www.theviperr.info/hobo_dnn/Default.aspx?tabid=70

It can be done while the head is on the tractor,,, even a boy scout could do it.... Move the amp gauge (its useless anyways) and install the temp gauge in that hole.

old af's used addative wp lube. new af's have wp lube built in. remember.. alot of old af's were alcohol based too!

soundguy

(quoted from post at 09:26:05 02/06/11) Lee, here's an option for a sending unit placement. Used to be a brass drain cock on my 50 8N. If the drain cock is on your tractor.

Mark

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I have gone a few rounds with folks on the temp gauge in the block . Their consensus is the reading is not accurate . My philosophy is what ever number you get for normal doesn't matter , its getting a higher than normal reading that you are looking for .

I have overheated my N's a few times bush hogging in the tall grass and weeds when the radiator would clog with grass and leaves . I don't want to wait for the tractor to spew fluid to stop and clean the grill . If my temp gauge reads 130 normally then I'll stop when it hits 150 and clean the grill .

Did not know that about AF. It was green when I drained it so I assumed it was newer. I'll put it back together with no lube. It has been sitting for 7 years so I probably will put a new water pump on. thanks

Ya know that makes sense, thanks. I see one guy recommended piping from the upper radiator hose, that seems a simple modification. Another recommended piping off the block drain valve. I do have a block drain valve on my 9N. I am not sure which would provide the more accurate reading, but like you say the normal running temp number will be the indicator.

While Briar Hill Brittanys solution is simple-elegance...(and I admit to almost doing that myself a few years ago)....the reason I didn't is....it is also not representative of sound sampling. That is NOT the hottest-area of the engine, and the gauge will likely read "good" even if the engine is hot.
The HOT area is at the top of the head, where the upper radiator-hose leaves the head for the top of the radiator.

if it ain't broke why fix it? unless you are just looking for practice turning wrenches or something.

soundguy

My philosophy is what ever number you get for normal doesn't matter , its getting a higher than normal reading that you are looking for .

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That's what I think, too, Ken. Or a lower than "normal" reading, indicating a malfunctioning thermostat. I know the range the motor generally runs when working the tractor in the summer, bringing up a load of firewood from the woods, blading snow in the dead of winter, or just be-boppin' down to the mailbox to pick up the newest seed catalog. C'mon.....if a 25 thousand dollar pick-up has a temp gauge that doesn't show a temperature, but shows a "normal" range, I think a "normal" range is just fine for a 1000.00 tractor. I'm more of a cave man than a boy scout, Hobo. :mrgreen: Your web site posting was handy info. It's all good! Mark

(quoted from post at 22:13:51 02/07/11) ... I think a "normal" range is just fine for a 1000.00 tractor. I'm more of a cave man than a boy scout, ... Mark

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"Normal" range for a N-Ford is.... no boiling-over.
(You ain't a cave-man if you got a high-tech temp gauge!)


LOL

Hello;
Great idea of using the black drain hole. My 8n just has a plug in the spot. My 8n is a 12 V unit, is there an electrical connection used with the gauge? One general question, can early 8n be fitted with a 'proofmeter' and related dash?
Thanks,
Skip

(quoted from post at 13:06:57 04/23/16) Hello;
Great idea of using the black drain hole. My 8n just has a plug in the spot. My 8n is a 12 V unit, is there an electrical connection used with the gauge? One general question, can early 8n be fitted with a 'proofmeter' and related dash?
Thanks,
Skip

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you"ll have to wire it yourself, skip, the Ns don't come with that wiring.

my gauge needed 5 wires - the wire from the sensor, and then a hot and ground for the gauge itself, and a hot and ground for its light.

(quoted from post at 16:40:33 02/05/11) Hello, please, I need some advice as to connecting a water temp guage. I removed the upper radiator hose and see no area to connect a sending unit. Is there a change out part for the upper hose connection to the head or possibly a spot on the block? I did not see any thermostat in the radiator hose, I assume it is recommended to run one. Thanks in advance

Click to expand...

I agree with what some of the others said how you really won't need a temperature gauge. We went through the extra work of putting one on our 9n and even on the hottest of days, the temperature doesn't even get hot enough to register on the gauge. The gauge was specifically for this tractor and started at 160 degrees. To see if the gauge was broke we removed the sending unit, briefly held a liter on it, and immediately saw the temperature gauge working.

If you really want the temp gauge on it, here's how we made ours:

Cut the upper radiator hose into 2 halves. Found a piece of thick-wall pipe laying around that had the same outside diameter as the inside diameter of the radiator hose. Drilled a hole into the center of the pipe. Welded a pipe fitting over the hole which had the same thread size as the sending unit that was being installed. Just make sure to position the sending unit in a location that will give clearance so that the gas tank doesn't hit it.

You will see how we started to use the drain plug in the left side of the block until we learned that this way doesn't give a proper temperature reading due to air can get trapped here.

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Your head has the flat spot for a temp sending unit to be drilled and tapped . No need to remove the head . You can use a cordless drill and tap by hand . This is probably one of the easiest modification a man can make . Cast iron is easy to drill and easy to tap .

Block drain hole is not really indicative of engine temp.
Better to drill and tap the head or use an in-hose sensor.

If you really feel you need a gauge, something similar to
[b:73fa7ac60f]this[/b:73fa7ac60f] would work. Comes in multiple sizes and colors too. :roll:
Of course, you could roll your own if you have time and
materials. For $6 if I wanted one I'd just by one.

Late model dash would need to be modified or the steering
changed for it to fit IIRC. I might have that backwards.
Governor is different also. Probably more that I'm missing.

A tractor driver don't need any gauges get rid of them all the dash would look much better. A tractor driver would not pay them any attention anyways...

A Operator mite find them handy and save a engine from what he may compute as not normal...

Its always interesting to see the made up whys I don't need it...