Ford 8n timing

davidgm

New User
Hello everyone I have been reading the discussions here the last few weeks trying to fix up my 8N and I am stuck.

8N side mount dist.
Good spark
Gets gas

Timing is all f'ered up. I tried doing the static timing since the tractor wasn't running I had it running but super rough. Tried to retime and now it just spits fuel out the air intake so I know the timing is even further off. I just want to make sure. #1 should be TDC at 4deg on the flywheel? I noticed it seems to change after I try to start it once or twice. Also new starter seems to get stuck not and then.
 
Are you 100% sure you have the firing order correct?? An N will run but not well if you have the firing order wrong. #1 is up by the radiator and #4 to the rear of the tractor. Just did some work on a 861 that would not run and found that the plug wires where off by one nipple on the cap. Moved all the wires back one nipple and it fired right up and ran like it should have
 
The firing order is correct but I just realized I may have messed up for setting tdc. Was reading another forum and saw Bob state that tdc the valve should be closed not open I was told the opposite. So I will have to figure out a better way to figure out tdc. It turns over so quick using the starter is almost impossible using my thumb.
 
If your fan belt is as tight as it should be you can turn the engine over with the fan blade by hand. Take a plastic straw or other such thing and poke it in the #1 plug hole and feel the piston coming up to TDC. That is how I figured out that the firing order on that 861 was wrong and when the rotor pointed to the #1 nipple on the distributor cap the piston was no where near TDC
 
Main thing I need to know is if it is 4deg for TDC because I have seen a bunch of other forums saying 8deg or even 20 deg. I took the hood off and looked right down at the piston to make sure I was TDC
 
Davidgm,There are two sets of timing marks on your flywheel 180% across from each other.
Remove the #1 plug,with your finger over the hole just bump the starter fast till you start to feel compression,then turn with the fan blade CCW looking at it from the engine side, till you see the timing mark on the flywheel.
 
My manual is not in the house right now so can not tell you. If you have the I-T FO-04 manual it will tell you what timing should be set at and I would go by a manual before I would go on something some one said here unless they could quote it right out of a manual
 
Old,you cant feel the piston with a straw down the spark plug hole on a N engine.It is way over to the left side of the hole and you can't reach it with a straw.
 
The manual is in the mail I just bought the tractor as I was moving into our first house. Just trying to get it going before the snow XD
 
I have done it before on an N so yes it can be done you just have to have it at a good angle. You can also use a flashlight and watch the piston and valves if you have the hood off
 
Den MS so that is a valve I see I could have sworn that was a piston. So how do you tell TDC on it?
 
I would set it some where between 84-8 and go form there. Then time it by ear. Ya some say it cannot be done but I have done it for decades and it has worked just fine for me on lots of engines
 
Read my reply about how to find TDC then look for 4% mark on the flywheel and mark it with some chalk/soap stone/white paint.
 
Proof Pictures
MVC-006F-1.jpg

MVC-008F.jpg
 

Were you trying to adjust the dynamic timing by ear? If so, you just learned something that many of us learned 40 years ago....it ain't gonna happen.

Remove the #1 spark plug. (removing all of them makes the job a bit easier) Ignition off, place your thumb over the #1 spark plug hole and crank slowly until compression is felt. Continue to crank the engine until you see the timing mark, 0* (top dead center) on the flywheel through the timing hole in the right side of the bell housing. Use chalk on the flywheel to exactly align the 4 degree mark with the pointer. Loosen the lock nut on the distributor. Rotate the distributor housing counter clockwise until the points are closed. Put the cap on & double check the plug wires, 1-2-4-3, CCW. Then, remove the primary wire from the side of the distributor (or at the coil, whichever is easier) Put one lead of your VOM (set on resistance) on the stud on the side of the distributor & the other on the block or other good ground. Slowly turn the distributor. The needle will move as the points close & then open. Find the exact spot just as the points open & then tighten down the distributor.

Now check your work (and the dynamic timing) w/ a light.

If it won't idle below 500 rpm (400 is better) don't bother w/ a light.

If it idles ok, make 3 marks w/ chalk or white paint on the flywheel:

4*
10*
17*

Start the engine.

At idle, the light should flash & the marker should line up exactly at 4* if you did the static timing correctly.

If not, loosen the distributor & turn it until the marks line up. It should take very little adjustment.

Once you've got that done, increase the engine speed to 1200 rpms. The light should flash & the marker should line up w/ the 10* mark. Then, increase the rpms to 2000 & look for the marker to align w/ the 17* mark.

Close counts on the advanced timing. A degree or 2 either way is ok. But, no movement or 5* or more off means you have an advance weight problem. You don't adjust the distributor to fix that.
75 Tips
 
" Then time it by ear. "

Right.

The guy has limited mechanical experience & you tell him that?

I "learned" the basics of auto mechanics in the early 60's by hanging out at the local garage. The only time I ever saw anyone adjust timing by ear was when the regular gas the customer bought caused the engine to knock under load. If they were too cheap to by hi-test, the mechanics would retard the spark a few degrees until the engine stopped pinging.

Timing lights were invented for a reason.
 
Yes timing by ear to get it to run is just fine. Oh and by the way timing lights work well some times but if you have say an old wore out Chev 350 and the timing chain has seen a better day a timing light is a joke at best. That also should have read 4-8 but either way to get it to run a light in not needed
 

Can you tell me were the manual reads to time by yer ear... You claim to own a stack of manuals a mile high setting right beside your desk take your time I will wait on ya...
 
Hey, David......be sure and let us know how that "straw in the spark plug hole" is working out for you. he he he
 
JMOR Maybe David also has one of those super rare SPCUP high compression cylinder heads on his 8N also. Or even bendable line of sight.he he
 
(quoted from post at 14:56:47 11/30/15) JMOR Maybe David also has one of those super rare SPCUP high compression cylinder heads on his 8N also. Or even bendable line of sight.he he
k, you got me on SPCUP?
 
(quoted from post at 17:23:01 11/30/15) It should have been SPCAP
Spark Plug Centered Above Piston
aybe an "N" with a Miller-Schofield or Riley OHV conversion like on Ford Model A ? :lol:
 
Hobo,YOU Got Me Laughing so Durn Hard I'm about to BUST!RITFLMAO and fell in the basement and I don't even have one!
 
Hey guys sorry for the late response internet has been down. I got it working apparently the manual stating .025 on points is dead wrong using a playing card got it to work better. I was also one off on my rotor timing. You can see the pistons under the spark plugs if you take the good off which is what I did to ensure TDC. Thanks for all the help guys I am sure I'll be asking more questions in the future
 
" internet has been down. "

Well, your tractor is going to be down pretty soon if you used a playing card to set the points.

You've set set the gap at about 1/2 of what it should be: .025. The points are going to burn up quickly. The manual is correct on that matter just as it's correct on the static & dynamic timing settings.

Re-set the points at .025 & then check the timing per my previous post.

" I was also one off on my rotor timing."

What exactly does that mean? The rotor only fits on the shaft one way. Were you missing the little c-clip?
75 Tips
 
Only way it started was reducing the point spacing even with the timing set properly. It is side mount distributor it has a gear on the bottom so can go in about 20 different positions. Using the turn the distributor for the spark method I was one off but would have still started had it not been for the points. I am told by a few friends with 8n and 9ns that they have the same problem with the TSC points up here.
 
(quoted from post at 15:27:58 12/10/15) Only way it started was reducing the point spacing even with the timing set properly. It is side mount distributor it has a gear on the bottom so can go in about 20 different positions. Using the turn the distributor for the spark method I was one off but would have still started had it not been for the points. I am told by a few friends with 8n and 9ns that they have the same problem with the TSC points up here.

How long do you expect it to run w/ the point gap reduced by 50%?
 
"I am told by a few friends with 8n and 9ns that they have the same problem with the TSC points up here."

I will agree with your friends that TSC points are junk.
However the points (style, part number, mounting), the point gap
and the timing are all different on a 9N or early 8N with a front
mount distributor than they are on your side mount 8N.
Comparing apples to oranges.

I would buy quality points from NAPA or another good parts store
and gap them at the recommended 25 thousands. Same as the plugs.
Good points will have a phenolic rubbing block, not plastic, and
will be ventilated.

Blue Streak# FD-8081X (don't leave off the "X")
Echlin# CS753
 

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