Ford 8N Electronic Ignition Installation Problem

Local mechanic made service call to replace spark plugs, plug wires, and install Pertronic Ignitor 1244AP6 on our Ford 8N, 6V positive ground with side mount distributor. After installation and a few cranks, the whole distributor turned and cracked the timing gear cover.
Distributor was pulled, expecting to see gear at bottom of shaft shattered, but all was intact. No debris, loose parts, etc. were found in the distributor. Screws used from the kit appeared shorter than original ones.
All owner could find was that mechanic installed Ignitor part off center instead of centered.
What could have caused the rotating magnet mechanism to jam? Could such jamming cause the gear cover to crack? If not, what could have cracked it?

See attached photos

(quoted from post at 10:23:02 11/26/15) See attached photos

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eeing them would be nice. Where is the crack? In vicinity of distributor gear?

Yes crack is in vicinity of distributor gear. Gear cover has vertical, raised cylindrical section that appears to conform to distributor gear and shaft, with another adjacent raised section that angles off up and right from bottom of cylindrical section.
The crack runs horizontally across narrow indentation near bottom of raised cylindrical section, then up along side of it and across top of adjacent raised section.

Photos arent uploading. I Choose Files and they appear in Upload section with Begin Uploads, but they never load. Hopefully theyll load with this reply. If not, Google Ford 8N timing gear cover and click on images, or see photos at this entry on eBay -
8N Ford Tractor Engine Timing Gear Cover - Side Distributor 51 52

I couldn't see any pictures but It almost sounds like the dist. was not seated properly in the housing,was it pulled
to install the electronics? I've done several and never had any problems. By the way I have an extra front cover.

Photo of part and description also available in Store, Tractor Parts of this site for Ford 8N Timing Gear Cover Part Number 8N6019B

No, distributor was not pulled to install electronics, only cap removed, along with points, condensor, etc. for installation of Ignitor kit.
Distributor was only removed after it turned and crack in cover appeared to try to determine what went wrong.

I would be looking for dropped screw(s) in base where the advance mechanism chewed them up and finally bound up. Are all of the old removed screws accounted for?

Yes, all screws accounted for. As previously stated, owner followed up mechanic and pulled distributor expecting to find gear shattered, but it was intact, and there was no debris, loose parts, etc. inside.
See PIX at SSB Tractor dot com, Tractors Forums, Ford 9N, 2N, 8N, NAA, Ford 8N Electronic Ignition Installation Problem

http://dstall.com/Ford8N1.jpg
http://dstall.com/Ford8N2.jpg

DS_TX, after you choose file then upload and you see the
picture in the little Preview box, hit the Continue button.

(quoted from post at 10:16:44 11/26/15) Local mechanic made service call to replace spark plugs, plug wires, and install Pertronic Ignitor 1244AP6 on our Ford 8N, 6V positive ground with side mount distributor. After installation and a few cranks, the whole distributor turned and cracked the timing gear cover.
Distributor was pulled, expecting to see gear at bottom of shaft shattered, but all was intact. No debris, loose parts, etc. were found in the distributor. Screws used from the kit appeared shorter than original ones.
All owner could find was that mechanic installed Ignitor part off center instead of centered.
What could have caused the rotating magnet mechanism to jam? Could such jamming cause the gear cover to crack? If not, what could have cracked it?

Click to expand...

on't understand the "centered' "off-centered" talk? The two sets of mounting holes are for CW vs CCW distributor rotation and seem to allow for different rotational clocking of the plate as opposed to moving it radially. ?? Did the rotating magnet assy scrape/hit anything?

Owner showed me how the Ignitor plate could be positioned differently depending on which screw holes were used. The mechanic had screwed it down so it was slightly off center, but could have been positioned centrally if screwed into different holes.
At first owner thought the magnetic assembly could have hit something judging by corner of magnet that look like it had been nicked. But on closer inspection of both magnets, it appears as if the indention in the metal is actually scoring and part of the manufacture, not evidence of damage.
If mechanic had installed for CW when CCW was needed (or vice versa), could that have cause whole distributor (not just cap) to turn and crack cover?

I have Ignitor part box and instructions that mechanic left for me.
There is only a sheet for Installation Instructions For 6 Volt Negative Ground Applications, and none for Positive Ground.
How should installation be modified for Positive Ground?
If it wasn't modified appropriately, could that be the source of the problem?

I'm currently reviewing negative vs. positive ground installation instructions that can be found here -
http://www.pertronix.com/support/manuals/

DS_TX........so you spend $150 fer electronic ignition (before crackin' yer gearbox) 'stedda $20 fer points every year. Good economic decisions. Generally Pertronix give problems with weird 4-nipple front mount. The 5-nipple side mount should be piece'o'cake. FIRE yer mechanic!!! I wouldn't lett him touch yer ignition switch let alone yer carbie.........the amazed Dell

P.S......I am NOT anti-electronic ignition, I hand built my first in 1963 fer my 1956 Dodge D-500 semi-hemi V-8. I still have electronic ignition in my 165hp 7000rpm BMW 2002. All my other vehicles are DIESEL which use NO sparkies

The distributer is 5 nipple.
There is no other local service available.
Whether the mechanic is fired is up to the owner.
At this point, it's not determined what caused the problem, and you're absolutely no help with that.

I'm wondering if the Pertronix conversion had anything to do with the case breaking, when you removed the dist. did / dose it rotate freely or is it stuck?
GB in MN

(quoted from post at 14:50:12 11/26/15) I'm wondering if the Pertronix conversion had anything to do with the case breaking, when you removed the dist. did / dose it rotate freely or is it stuck?
GB in MN

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b:b5742e6543][i:b5742e6543]

GB in MN;

I'm with you here.
That distrib. cover cracked like that...Looks to have been smacked hard from the bottom!
Makes me wonder if the axle is worn out....(Pin or Bore)...enough to have reached up and hit the cover, there-by jamming the distrib. gear, and cracking the cover????????
I've seen damage done to a lot of Front mount distribs. broken up like that!!!!!!!

Given enough slop/wear.......the axle Can/will do damage!!!

Just thinkin' out-loud!!!

Gary[/i:b5742e6543][/b:b5742e6543]

"you're absolutely no help with that."

I don't think there's any reason for you to be a DOUCHE!

No one here OWES you ANYTHING, and guys have tried to help, and you dare make a remark like that?

Another thing you need to realize what has happened is NOT a common occurrence (AFAIK) and the fact that not a lot of folks have come forward that have seen it happen before tends to back that up.

GOOD LUCK!

(quoted from post at 20:29:02 11/26/15) "you're absolutely no help with that."

I don't think there's any reason for you to be a DOUCHE!

No one here OWES you ANYTHING, and guys have tried to help, and you dare make a remark like that?

Another thing you need to realize what has happened is NOT a common occurrence (AFAIK) and the fact that not a lot of folks have come forward that have seen it happen before tends to back that up.

GOOD LUCK!

Click to expand...

Maybe the owner should post for his self.
He may be more interested in help.

You are right he's no help other than to offer his opinion that's of no help. Pay him no mind he will go away... Why because he has no idea what caused your problem...

I don't either but listing...

(quoted from post at 23:08:43 11/26/15)
You are right he's no help other than to offer his opinion that's of no help. Pay him no mind he will go away... Why because he has no idea what caused your problem...

I don't either but listing...

Click to expand...

ll the dirt & grease in the photos show no sign that the distributor moved/rotated. Furthermore, it should be able to rotate within the timing cover, freely & without causing any damage. As long as we are free to speculate, I suspect that the distributor shaft locked up and the extreme loading at cam/distributor gears caused a forward thrust of the cam shaft & the cam pushing forward on the timing cover thrust surface broke the cover. That thrust surface is the upper right most broken area in the photos.

(quoted from post at 09:56:30 11/27/15)

(quoted from post at 23:08:43 11/26/15)
You are right he's no help other than to offer his opinion that's of no help. Pay him no mind he will go away... Why because he has no idea what caused your problem...

I don't either but listing...

Click to expand...

ll the dirt & grease in the photos show no sign that the distributor moved/rotated. Furthermore, it should be able to rotate within the timing cover, freely & without causing any damage. As long as we are free to speculate, I suspect that the distributor shaft locked up and the extreme loading at cam/distributor gears caused a forward thrust of the cam shaft & the cam pushing forward on the timing cover thrust surface broke the cover. That thrust surface is the upper right most broken area in the photos.

Click to expand...

I would have thought the dist body would have rotated in the housing first the hold down clamp is not that robust...

(quoted from post at 09:05:04 11/27/15)

(quoted from post at 09:56:30 11/27/15)

(quoted from post at 23:08:43 11/26/15)
You are right he's no help other than to offer his opinion that's of no help. Pay him no mind he will go away... Why because he has no idea what caused your problem...

I don't either but listing...

Click to expand...

ll the dirt & grease in the photos show no sign that the distributor moved/rotated. Furthermore, it should be able to rotate within the timing cover, freely & without causing any damage. As long as we are free to speculate, I suspect that the distributor shaft locked up and the extreme loading at cam/distributor gears caused a forward thrust of the cam shaft & the cam pushing forward on the timing cover thrust surface broke the cover. That thrust surface is the upper right most broken area in the photos.

Click to expand...

I would have thought the dist body would have rotated in the housing first the hold down clamp is not that robust...

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"hold down clamp is not that robust...", true statement. Who knows, since we are not there? What 'mechanic' would install the EI & never try it before walking? Maybe he did. Broke it, fished out the debris, the walked before anyone saw the damage. Then owner tries to start it & thinks he broke it. We are not likely to ever know, especially since we are not communicating with the participants, but through a 2nd or 3rd party?

JMOR & Hobo,NC —

In your opinion, is physical blockage of rotating magnetic assembly the only probable cause of cracked cover?

In other words, electrical wouldn't cause that, such as EI installed for negative instead of positive ground system?

The photo may appear as if the distributor did NOT move or rotate because after it did, the mechanic said he was going to disassemble, so I presume he put it back where it should be.

I also assume that when distributer gear/cam locked up, that turned the whole distributor, not just the cap.

If locking up of distributor gear/cam was cause of problem - what are possible reasons for that?

So far, only culprit seems to be the magnetic assembly hitting on something, such as screws.
The mechanic initially suspected that, but when the Business Owner (not tractor owner - that's me) followed up he found the kit screws to be shorter than original ones as they should be (thinner part), and not protruding far enough below plate to hit on magnetic assembly.
No loose screws/nuts, or other debris were found in distributor when removed by Business Owner.
I thought mechanic honest enough to have said if he found anything in distributor and Business Owner confirmed that. Business Owner took distributor and all old parts back to his shop to try and figure out what went wrong.

Mechanic did not "walk".
After EI installation, I hooked up battery and hit ignition. Mechanic was watching distributor and had me stop cranking when distributor started turning. Then he had me turn off key, and crank again, but distributor turned so more. At that point he started to disassemble EI to investigate, and probably put distributor back after finding cracked Timing Gear cover, knowing he could do no more.
He told me about crack before he left and did not just sneak off.

Without being able to identify anything that could have possibly stopped magnetic assembly from turning, cause remains a mystery.
I may opt to have EI removed and points/condensor put back.
With the new plugs and plug wires, maybe engine won't cut out any more like it's been doing off and on in past, and finally not starting at all.
If it does, then maybe there's some other electrical issue/part to replace such as capacitor.
But first, BO has to replace cracked cover, and if he can't find what caused the problem, he'll probably agree to remove EI which was his idea to install in first place after I told him I'm tired of engine cutting out after running fine for awhile and then not starting

How much of distributor was disassembled? Was the breaker plate removed and the mechanical advance examined? Just looking in above breaker plate isnt good enough. No, I dont believe just the plastic enclosed magnetic assy would cause that kind of lockup. It would come apart first. No, wiring definitely is not the answer.

I wish I'd stuck around to watch mechanic disassemble but didn't so I don't know what he did. I took photo after he left, and everything was back the way it was.
When Business Owner showed up, he removed distributor cap and investigated positioning of EI, then pulled the whole distributor. He didn't find screws of length that could interfere with magnetic assembly below plate nor any debris inside. He said he expected to find distributor gear shattered to pieces but it wasn't.
I didn't see any plastic enclosure for magnetic assembly, only two thick metal pieces that rotated. Owner thought corner of one looked like it had hit on something, but on closer inspection other piece had similar indention on corner, so he concluded that was manufacture score mark and no indication of impact.
At this point from what you've told me, it seems everything points to something inside distributor jamming gear causing cam to stress and crack Timing Gear Cover.
Thanks for your input.

(quoted from post at 15:21:49 11/27/15) I wish I'd stuck around to watch mechanic disassemble but didn't so I don't know what he did. I took photo after he left, and everything was back the way it was.
When Business Owner showed up, he removed distributor cap and investigated positioning of EI, then pulled the whole distributor. He didn't find screws of length that could interfere with magnetic assembly below plate nor any debris inside. He said he expected to find distributor gear shattered to pieces but it wasn't.
I didn't see any plastic enclosure for magnetic assembly, only two thick metal pieces that rotated. Owner thought corner of one looked like it had hit on something, but on closer inspection other piece had similar indention on corner, so he concluded that was manufacture score mark and no indication of impact.
At this point from what you've told me, it seems everything points to something inside distributor jamming gear causing cam to stress and crack Timing Gear Cover.
Thanks for your input.

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ure doesnt sound like any 1244 that I have ever seen. Nice to see picture of that one.

See —
http://www.external_link.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=3_42_167

No. 14 is plate; beneath it is no. 16 magnetic assembly (2 magnets)

Ignitor looks like this —
http://www.forkliftpartsales.com/Forklift-Parts-3/1244A-IGNITOR-KIT-1

See distributor —
http://www.external_link.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=3_42_167

No. 14 is plate; beneath it is no. 16 magnetic assembly (2 magnets)

Ignitor looks like this —
http://www.forkliftpartsales.com/Forklift-Parts-3/1244A-IGNITOR-KIT-1

See distributor —
http://www.external_link.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=3_42_167

No. 14 is plate; beneath it is no. 16 magnetic assembly (2 magnets)

Ignitor looks like this —
http://www.forkliftpartsales.com/Forklift-Parts-3/1244A-IGNITOR-KIT-1

See distributor —
http://www.external_link.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=3_42_167

No. 14 is plate; beneath it is no. 16 magnetic assembly (2 magnets)

Ignitor looks like this —
http://www.forkliftpartsales.com/Forklift-Parts-3/1244A-IGNITOR-KIT-1

See distributor —
http://www.external_link.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=3_42_167

No. 14 is plate; beneath it is no. 16 magnetic assembly (2 magnets)

Ignitor looks like this —
http://www.forkliftpartsales.com/Forklift-Parts-3/1244A-IGNITOR-KIT-1

See distributor
http://www.external_link.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=3_42_167

No. 14 is plate; beneath it is no. 16 magnetic assembly (2 magnets)

Ignitor looks like this
http://www.forkliftpartsales.com/Forklift-Parts-3/1244A-IGNITOR-KIT-1uote="JMOR"](reply to post at 16:43:55 11/27/15) [/quote]

See distributor
http://www.external_link.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=3_42_167

No. 14 is plate; beneath it is no. 16 magnetic assembly (2 magnets)

Ignitor looks like this
http://www.forkliftpartsales.com/Fo...e="JMOR"](reply to post at 16:43:55 11/27/15)

See distributor
http://www.external_link.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=3_42_167

No. 14 is plate; beneath it is no. 16 magnetic assembly (2 magnets)

Ignitor looks like this
http://www.forkliftpartsales.com/Forklift-Parts-3/1244A-IGNITOR-KIT-1uote="JMOR"](reply to post at 16:43:55 11/27/15)