MattyRuch

New User
1940s Ford Tractor (Engine is an 8N, Gearbox 9N and Rear is 2N).

Converted to 12V

Tractor worked beautifully the last two years following an engine rebuild. I used it extensively this summer and fall. It sat in the garage for two weeks (the garage is heated and it never got below freezing).

It will not start.

The battery is new(ish) and fully charged. I have 12V at the battery and all the way to the starter when the key is turned on. There is no volts to the starter when the key is turned off. No clicking....nothing. The gearbox is in neutral. I cleaned (though they weren't corroded) all the connections from the battery (including the ground) all the way to the starter.

Any advice is most welcome. Thank you.
 
A normal N does not care if you have the key on or not to turn over the starter. Do normally start it with the key switch or the OEM push button?
 
The OEM push button starter is used. I have always had to have the key in the ''on'' position to start the tractor.
 
Yes the ignition key must be on to start the tractor, but the engine should turn over if the tractor is in neutral and the starter button is
pushed.
 
Sounds like it has the wrong solenoid on it since it should spin the engine over with or with out the key turned on but will not start with it turned off. That said make 1000% sure it is out of gear then use a heavy jumper wire from the battery ignition side to the starter stud. If it turns over that way then you have a problem from the starter back to the battery and could be a bad solenoid or wire or poor connection
 
Well, I was able to get nothing with a battery jumper cable from the positive battery terminal to the stud on the starter.

I removed the starter and it came apart in my hands (it's less than a year old). I intended to have it tested, but it literally separated itself.

I think a trip to the store is in order for a starter...I'll update.
 
MattyRuch,This is what the OEM starter switch looks like,is this what you have.Part #1 on the diagram.
a86444.jpg
 
No, sir....it appears to be part number three (a button just in front of the gear lever) that has a rod that contacts 'something' when it's out of gear.
 
Yessir...that is what I have. I didn't understand how it actually worked until I saw that picture. Thank you.
 
Matty,With that starter switch,the starter will turn the engine over whether the ignition key is on or off it makes no difference.To check the switch use a test light on the terminal going to the starter and push the thumb button down with the test light connected.
 
(quoted from post at 05:36:54 11/25/15) Well, I was able to get nothing with a battery jumper cable from the positive battery terminal to the stud on the starter.

I removed the starter and it came apart in my hands (it's less than a year old). I intended to have it tested, but it literally separated itself.

I think a trip to the store is in order for a starter...I'll update.
Take the starter to a repair shop, they can put it back together if you can't and repair it also.
 
(quoted from post at 16:36:54 11/24/15) Well, I was able to get nothing with a battery jumper cable from the positive battery terminal to the stud on the starter.

I removed the starter and it came apart in my hands (it's less than a year old). I intended to have it tested, but it literally separated itself.

I think a trip to the store is in order for a starter...I'll update.
es sir, when you take the bolts that hold it together out of it, it does in fact come apart.
 

I unbolted the starter switch and cleaned up behind it and put it back together.

A test light shows that I have current to the starter motor side with the starter button depressed.

Thank you.
 
Matty,If you Have power at the switch when you push the starter button,then chances are the starter needs repaired.I would much rather have a rebuilt original type starter than any new China/ect.replacement junk starter.If you can't rebuild it ,find someone or auto/electric shop local to repair and rebuild it.I would also replace the starter drive with the new style starter drive.
wm_52-11350C.jpg

New Style Drive
 
I took the starter to St John's Tractor Supply and two of the men spent 30 mins putting the starter back together (they are great there) and then tested the starter...it worked.

I installed the starter. While I have power to the starter with the starter button depressed, it still won't spin. I used jumper cables from the battery to the starter.

It spun right over and started.

So, I'm going to replace the negative/earth battery cable tomorrow....this has to be a simple and silly fix.
 
Sounds like a bad solenoid to me. If you jump the starter and it runs then for some reason your solenoid is not allowing juice to flow to your starter. If you put a meter on the wire going to the solenoid and when you depress your starter button and if it shows you have power but doesn't turn over then take a hammer and tap your solenoid. It may be stuck and it may free it up. I have had that happen to me. Never had to replace the solenoid as its always worked since but I did take all my terminals off and really cleaned every thing. Norm
 
(quoted from post at 09:00:50 11/25/15) Sounds like a bad solenoid to me. If you jump the starter and it runs then for some reason your solenoid is not allowing juice to flow to your starter. If you put a meter on the wire going to the solenoid and when you depress your starter button and if it shows you have power but doesn't turn over then take a hammer and tap your solenoid. It may be stuck and it may free it up. I have had that happen to me. Never had to replace the solenoid as its always worked since but I did take all my terminals off and really cleaned every thing. Norm
an not be the solenoid......his tractor does not have one.
 
as a test, use jump cables from bat ground to starter, then see if the push button works.

if yes, then strap is bad.

if no, then screwdriver across switch.. if works.. switch may be bad as well.

do this out of gear, in neutral, and clutch blocked for safety any time jumper testing the starter.
 
Matty.......you do realize the starter motor will ONLY turn the engine when the 3-speed tranny is in NEUTRAL, don't you? 2nd, you must have the ignition switch ON so you gitt electrons to the top of yer squarecan ignition coil. 3rd, surprizingly enuff, 8N engines will fitt yer 3-speed 9N/2N tranny. 4th, since the tractor set fer awhile, I'd un-snapple the capple and stick the corner of a $1-bill (cheap) between the points and pull and "polish" the INVISIBLE CORROSION from between the points (0.015) and then re-snapple the capple. Simple, eh? ........HTH, Dell
 
Update:

The starter will not engage with a earthing strap from the negative battery terminal to a bolt on the starter.

A screwdriver between the two bolts from the push button starter does not engage the starter.

The only way I can engage the starter is with jump leads from the batteries to the starter.

In response to the last post...yes, it is in neutral, yes, I have an 8N engine to a 9N gearbox, and it only sat for two weeks in a heated shop. It fired up immediately once I jumped the starter.
 
(quoted from post at 16:19:11 11/25/15) Update:

The starter will not engage with a earthing strap from the negative battery terminal to a bolt on the starter.

A screwdriver between the two bolts from the push button starter does not engage the starter.

The only way I can engage the starter is with jump leads from the batteries to the starter.

In response to the last post...yes, it is in neutral, yes, I have an 8N engine to a 9N gearbox, and it only sat for two weeks in a heated shop. It fired up immediately once I jumped the starter.
ure sounds like you need to look closer at cables & battery/start switch/ground connections (i.e., both ends of all cables).
 
Update-apologies for the delay...

I replaced the braided earthing strap. I think that may have been part of the problem.

I still can't start via the push button; I can start by jumping past the starter switch. I'm going to pull that apart next.
 
Sorted!

Thanks to all for the help (and Den N Ms, the diagram was most helpful).


A new starter switch combined with a new braided earthing wire brought the old girl back.

Again, many thanks for such a great forum and members.
 

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