1940 ford 9n spark

Ron Vale

Member
I havnt started my 1940 9n in over a year. the 6v battery was dead and wouldn't hold a charge. I jumped the tractor with my 12v pickup. I connected the cables to the pickup red on red,,black on black. I connected the red to red on my tractor battery and put the black leed to my starter lug. The tractor started right up. I removed the red from my tractor battery and it stalled. I hooked it back up but it would not start again. after some checking, I found that I had NO spark. I think I have power to the ignition wire on the coil but loose it after that.I have continuity through the coil(don't know if continuity means the coil is still good). but I still have no spark.. I removed the front mount coil, dist cap and distributer. I was hoping some buddy would know what could have happened and tell me where to go from here....
ps I did a few tune ups on it before but cant remember how to get the rotor off. does it just pry off?
 
(quoted from post at 12:43:33 11/02/15) I havnt started my 1940 9n in over a year. the 6v battery was dead and wouldn't hold a charge. I jumped the tractor with my 12v pickup. I connected the cables to the pickup red on red,,black on black. I connected the red to red on my tractor battery and put the black leed to my starter lug. The tractor started right up. I removed the red from my tractor battery and it stalled. I hooked it back up but it would not start again. after some checking, I found that I had NO spark. I think I have power to the ignition wire on the coil but loose it after that.I have continuity through the coil(don't know if continuity means the coil is still good). but I still have no spark.. I removed the front mount coil, dist cap and distributer. I was hoping some buddy would know what could have happened and tell me where to go from here....
ps I did a few tune ups on it before but cant remember how to get the rotor off. does it just pry off?
red on red & black on black is not really meaningful, since people often use whatever color battery cable that can get their hands on & this is made worse with Positice ground, since one needs a cable with a big end for ground. So, tell us how you connected using +/- battery terminal words.
 
First, answer JMOR's question. As he said, colors don't mean much on these old tractors. (and see tip # 43 before you jump it again)

" I connected the red to red on my tractor battery and put the black leed to my starter lug. The tractor started right up. I removed the red from my tractor battery and it stalled. "

Of course it did. You removed the power source for the ignition. You have a totally dead battery.....so, the only power source for the ignition was your jumper battery.

So, try & charge the battery. (see tips 49 & 60).

But, if it sat for a year, chances are it's beyond charging.

" I think I have power to the ignition wire on the coil"

"Think " doesn't cut it.

You should have battery voltage w/ the points open & about half that w/ them closed. As you have a dead 6v battery, you have no way to tell.

" I found that I had NO spark. "

As I said earlier, if the battery in the tractor is dead, you will have no spark.

" (don't know if continuity means the coil is still good)"

It means the coil doesn't have a dead short.....but forget about the coil. It's not your problem.

" how to get the rotor off. does it just pry off? "

Yes.

The first thing you need to check in the distributor is bushing wear. If the shaft has any sideways movement AT ALL, the bushings must be replaced. (see below)

Next, look at how the points & condenser are set in the distributor before you start pulling it down! Turn the tang & observe how the points open & close. Make sure you are using quality points. I use only Wells, Blue Streak or Echlin brand points (* see below). Be careful not to ground the tip of the condenser wire to the body of the distributor when you replace the points. Do not break the little copper strip that go to the points. (If you do, make another out of the old set of points). Also, make sure the condenser wire does not go through the same opening in the distributor as the coil pig tail. The condenser wire goes through the opening on the top right.

Look at the old points; are they burned, pitted or misaligned? Check the point gap, .015 on all four lobes. Make sure the blade is at a perfect right angle to the points. You want to feel just the slightest bit of drag when you pull the blade through the points. Set the points on the high side of the cam and ensure they align correctly. Make sure you have the star washers under the screws on the points. If you need to replace the 8-32 X .19 fillister head screws, ensure that the new screws do not interfere with the advance weights. Dress the points by running a piece of card stock or a brown paper bag through them. New points sometimes have an anti-corrosive dielectric coating on them & old points can corrode or pick up grease from a dirty feeler gauge or excessive cam lubricant.

And, don?t forget to lube the rubbing block w/ cam lube; not Vaseline, not bearing grease, but cam lube (** see below).

If you are using quality points and cannot get the gap to open to .015, chances are you need to replace the bushings.

Now, set the timing. Get a meter or test light, a 21/64? drill bit (*** see below) & a metal straight edge. Put the distributor face down w/ the condenser on the left & the timing plate lock screw on the bottom. Look at the end of the shaft: it has a narrow side & a wide side. Make sure you can tell the difference. Now, place the drill bit in the bottom mounting hole (this will be your reference point for measuring). Next, place a straight edge on the wide side of the tang on the shaft as shown in fig. FO83 in the picture. Rotate the shaft CCW (as viewed from rotor side OR CW as viewed from back/tang side) until the straight edge is ?" beyond the outside edge of the drill bit you stuck in the distributor mounting hole. At this distance, the distributor points should start to open (get your meter/light out now & check). If not, loosen the timing plate lock screw and turn to advance or retard the timing (move the plate down to advance timing, up to retard). Remember, each one of those little hash marks represents about 4? of timing. Keep adjusting until you get the proper ?" setting. (if the plate won?t move, you might need to remove the big C clip to loosen it a bit) As you?re adjusting, eliminate backlash by turning the shaft backwards (CW as viewed from the front) and bring the shaft forward (CCW as viewed from the front) to measure your setting. This ?" setting will get you static timing at top dead center.

As you can see from the picture, this particular distributor needed to have the timing advanced by about 8? (two hash marks) to achieve the ?? measurement.

After you set the points & timing, do a continuity check before you put the distributor back on the tractor.

Before you start, make sure your meter/light works.

With the distributor still off the tractor, follow these steps:

1. Coil off, cap off, points open. One probe on the brass screw & the other on both sides of the open points. On the side closest to the cam, you should have continuity. Not on the other side! If you do, you will also have continuity everywhere because the points are grounded.

2. Coil off, cap off, points open. One probe on the brass screw & the other anywhere on the body of the distributor. You should have no continuity! Now, rotate the tang on the distributor....as the points open & close, you have continuity (closed) and lose it when they open.

3. Put the coil on the distributor, cap off, points open. One probe on the lead on the top of the coil, the other on the cam side of the open points. You should have continuity!

4. Coil on, cap off, points open. One probe on the lead on the top of the coil, the other anywhere on the body of the distributor. You should have no continuity!

At this point, I just put the distributor, coil & cap all back on the tractor as a unit. The reason I do this is because it is real easy to get the cap or coil misaligned trying to put it back together, one piece at a time. The result is something gets broken or you get a ?no spark? problem.

It's possible to put it back on wrong & break it. Look at the slot on the end of the cam shaft. Whatever angle it happens to be, turn the distributor tang to match it. Make sure you can tell the wide side from the narrow side on both the cam & distributor! (close counts). Place the distributor on the front of the engine, gently push it in place & slowly turn the distributor body until you feel the tang slip into the slot. Rotate the distributor body until the bolt holes line up. Hand tighten the two bolts until the distributor body is flush with the timing gear cover.

Double-check your firing order & plug wires. It?s 1-2-4-3, counterclockwise. It?s very easy to cross 3 & 4.

And finally, do not forget to remove the distributor on an annual basis (more often, depending on use) to check the point gap and re-lube the cam.

* NAPA part numbers:
? Points: FD-6769X
? Condenser: FD-71
? Rotor: FD-104
? Cap: FD-126

** Distributor cam lube:
http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/Result.aspx?Ntt=ECH+ML1&Ntk=Keyword&Nty=1&Dn=0&D=ECH+ML1&Dk=1&Dp=3&N=0

** Distributor cam lube
http://www.carquest.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/subcategory__10151_-1_10651_11340

*** Rather than the drill bit, a jig made by Dan Allen (The Old Hokie) will make this task quicker & more accurate.

http://windyridgefarm.us/

**** Unscrew the plate hold down screw & remove the C clip to get the plate out. Remove the shaft & weights. The weights should freely move.
IMG_20140212_144953_385_zpsd84210ac.jpg

75 Tips
 
The red cable was + and the black cable was - Bruce...thanks for the help, but I have one question. You say that I have no spark because my battery is dead. But when I jumped it, the engine started. That means I had spark from the jump. Why wouldn't it start again. and while I was jumping it the second time, I pulled a plug and grounded it and had no spark.
 
Ron,Check and clean your battery cables,you possibly have a loose and corroded cables and it lost the connection when you wiggled it removing the jumper cable from the battery,then it died and would not restart. Clean the cables and re charge it if still a no go get a new battery.
 
(quoted from post at 14:05:49 11/02/15) The red cable was + and the black cable was - Bruce...thanks for the help, but I have one question. You say that I have no spark because my battery is dead. But when I jumped it, the engine started. That means I had spark from the jump. Why wouldn't it start again. and while I was jumping it the second time, I pulled a plug and grounded it and had no spark.
may be able to shed light on that question, but I need to know where the red cable on your tractor connects at the other end.......chassis or start switch?
 
Ron.........awe yes, the POSITIVE (+) ground conundrum. Would you believe electrons don't care what color the plastic handles are??? You care 'cuz you need to know what end of the cable is connect to where or what. Back in the olden-daze, batterys didn't have much "hair" on their chest ...er... cells. So Ford devised a scheme to compensate fer weak batterys with something called the "infamous" ballast resistor. Basically, the 1-terminal square can ignition coil was designed to operate on 3-volts. And the ballast resistor has a weird characteristic that as it HEATS up it changes value from about 1-ohm to 3-ohms. Thus keeping the 6-volt square can coil operating at designed specs ...ie... 3-volts. Surprizingly enuff, yer 6-volt starter motor will operate on 12-volts and will ALWAYS turn the correct direction whether positive (+) or negative (-) ground. Isn't that amazing? There are some obscure advantages to positive (+) ground but modern sparkies (recommend AutoLite 437's gapped 0.025) are so much better than 1939 Champions. Most front mount ignition problems are caused by BAD POINTS. Me? I'd un-snapple the capple and prise open the points and stick the corner of $1-bill between the points and PULL. Polishing the burned points. Simple, eh? ........HTH, Dell, yer self-appointed sparkie-meister
 
I connected the positive truck terminal to the positive tractor terminal. I connected the negative truck terminal to the tractor starter. The tractor started. I removed cable from the positive tractor terminal and the tractor stalled.
So the truck battery jump created spark in my tractor....What I don't understand is why when I repeated the jump start in the exact same way, I got NO spark. The jump from the truck gave me spark the first time, why not the second time. something in the electrical system of the tractor had to change.
 
(quoted from post at 08:56:29 11/03/15) I connected the positive truck terminal to the positive tractor terminal. I connected the negative truck terminal to the tractor starter. The tractor started. I removed cable from the positive tractor terminal and the tractor stalled.
So the truck battery jump created spark in my tractor....What I don't understand is why when I repeated the jump start in the exact same way, I got NO spark. The jump from the truck gave me spark the first time, why not the second time. something in the electrical system of the tractor had to change.
Again, I may be able to shed light on that question, but I need to know where the red cable on your tractor connects at the other end.......chassis or start switch?
 

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