2N no spark, will electronic ign. help?

5 weeks ago I delivered a 2N I had rebuilt to a friends deer farm. We bush hogged for a couple hours and then secured
the tractor in storage. We went down today and it wouldn't start. I was concerned there might be issues as all the
rubber on the tractor had heavy white mold on it from being damp. The tractor is 6v front distributer and cranked very
well. Checked and cleaned points, Checked distributer and coil for moisture. checked for spark by removing and
grounding #4 plug. none. Pulled key switch and held wires together, no spark. I believe the problem to be moisture
related. Will an electronic ignition help mitigate a moist environment? Going back in a few days
 
If it is the moist environment corroding the point contacts, then, probably yes, BUT if it is moisture draining off the high voltage at cap, rotor, wires, etc., then no.
 
For God's sake, verify why it doesn't have spark before throwing a 100$ ignition in it!

Your tests and observations are less than exhaustive.

I heard no voltage check at top of coil with points both opened and closed.

Your key bypass was good but only partial troubleshooting. Could be an open wire before or after key, open resistor, etc.

A hotwire test from bat to coil would be one test, and the volt test I mentioned before, on existing wiring another one
 
Simple answer is no not likely to help since it is likely to be shorting out due to moisture.
But trouble shooting will help.
Check that when you open the points by hand that you have spark from the points. Do so carefully or you will find you have spark in the wrong place and you will feel it big time. This is one of the only times WD 40 may help since it is made to displace moisture.
You can also try a hot wire form the ignition side of the battery to the coil. When you hook that hot wire up most of the time you should get a spark since the points are more likely to be closed then open. If no spark then likely the points are corroded
 
tractor is 3 hrs away and when we went down we didn't have a multimeter. Stupid in retrospect. Going back Friday armed with a multimeter, spare points (if i still have them in the shop) emory, feeler gauges and my trailer if needed. Problem is this is the only secure area on the property so I'm trying to make my buddies tractor as reliable as possible.
 
I'd use plain typing paper to clean the points, or a proper ignition hone before Emory. If you use Emory, plan on replacing points.

If you have a test lamp, take that too, can put inline with wire to coo and roll over and watch for blinking lamp
 
If you think you have a moisture problem, order a distributor gasket kit (item 8, below) & take a can of WD-40 with you.

And as soundguy said, dress the points w/ coarse paper & not a file.

The very first thing you need to check is voltage at the top of the coil. Assuming that the bushings & advance weights are ok (*see below), & that you have correct voltage to the coil (battery voltage with the points open and about half that with the points closed), the problem is in the distributor.

Once you get the distributor on the bench, the first thing you need to check is bushing wear. If the shaft has any sideways movement AT ALL, the bushings must be replaced.

The most common electrical failure (no spark, weak spark) points on the front mount are:

1. The insulator under the brass concave head screw & where the copper strip attaches. (it’s fiber & will wear out; poke & prod w/ your meter leads to make sure it still works) If you need to replace the insulator, use a .250 x 3/8 nylon square nylon anchor nut available at most big box home stores

2. The pigtail at the bottom of the coil not making contact w/ the concave head brass screw inside the distributor. (With the coil on, the pigtail must firmly contact the brass screw. No contact = no spark

3. The copper strip is broken or grounded to the plate. (look very carefully for cracks & breaks).

4. The condenser wire grounding to the plate or side of the distributor.

5. The tab on the bottom of the coil not making contact w/ the brass button on the cap. (With the cap on, the tab must firmly contact the brass button. No contact = no spark.)

6. Incorrect positioning of the spring clip on the plate causing the pigtail to ground. (the open part of the clip goes between 7 & 9 o’clock on the plate. That puts the straight part of the clip opposite of the timing screw at 3 o’clock)

7. Incorrect seating of the coil on the distributor due to a loose bail or no gasket.(the coil must not move at all; if it does, replace the gasket or bail. Or stick some cardboard under the bail).

8. Water/moisture inside the cap due to gasket failure or the absence of a gasket. (the cap AND coil have gaskets)

9. Dirty/corroded/burned/incorrectly gapped or misaligned points. I use only Wells, Blue Streak or Echlin brand points (* *see below). If you are using quality points and cannot get the gap to open to .015, chances are you need to replace the bushings.

10. Burned rotor, cracked/carbon tracked cap.

After you find the problem & re-check the point gap, do a continuity check before you put the distributor back on the tractor. Before you start, make sure your meter/light works.

With the distributor still off the tractor, follow these steps:

1. Coil off, cap off, points open. One probe on the brass screw & the other on both sides of the open points. On the side closest to the cam, you should have continuity. Not on the other side! If you do, you will also have continuity everywhere because the points are grounded.

2. Coil off, cap off, points open. One probe on the brass screw & the other anywhere on the body of the distributor. You should have no continuity! Now, rotate the tang on the distributor....as the points open & close, you have continuity (closed) and lose it when they open.

3. Put the coil on the distributor, cap off, points open. One probe on the lead on the top of the coil, the other on the cam side of the open points. You should have continuity!

4. Coil on, cap off, points open. One probe on the lead on the top of the coil, the other anywhere on the body of the distributor. You should have no continuity!

At this point, I just put the distributor, coil & cap all back on the tractor as a unit. The reason I do this is because it is real easy to get the cap or coil misaligned trying to put it back together, one piece at a time. The result is something gets broken or you get a ‘no spark’ problem.

It's possible to put it back on wrong & break it. Look at the slot on the end of the cam shaft. Whatever angle it happens to be, turn the distributor tang to match it. Make sure you can tell the wide side from the narrow side on both the cam & distributor! (close counts). Place the distributor on the front of the engine, gently push it in place & slowly turn the distributor body until you feel the tang slip into the slot. Rotate the distributor body until the bolt holes line up. Hand tighten the two bolts until the distributor body is flush with the timing gear cover.


* Unscrew the plate hold down screw & remove the C clip to get the plate out. Remove the shaft & weights. The weights should freely move.


* *NAPA part numbers:
• Points: FD-6769X
• Condenser: FD-71
• Rotor: FD-104
• Cap: FD-126
DSC03063.jpg

75 Tips
 
Do your self a favor and go to a auto parts store like O'Reilly's and buy a points file and leave the emery cloth at home. A points file will cost you around a buck and will last years. I keep one in my mobile tool box and shoot I used it yesterday on a Bobcat 371
 
Thanks all for your help. I will do some more diagnostics when we go down. I do believe it will need the gasket kit at a minimum. I will let yo know what we find. Thanks again
 

I was concerned there might be issues as all the
rubber on the tractor had heavy white mold on it from being damp.

That's going to be a problem not only the ignition, the clutch etc...

I sand, file are what it takes to get a set of contacts to make the connection you do what you gotta do even on a NEW set... I have found its not uncommon to have to file a NEW set just did a NEW set last week, if that did not get'er done I would have drug some Emory cloth thu'em in a heat beat then flushed them clean with some contact cleaner are brake clean... ... All the tricks of the trade failed it took a points file to get'er done...

Eliminate the damp storage issue are it gonna win every time...
EI would eliminate the points cleaning issue...
 
I use 1500 grit wet/dry sand paper to clean points.

I would remove the distributor. make sure it is dry inside and all the gaskets are good. Clamp it in the bench vise and check to see if it's working with my spark checker and battery charger.
 
while I like EI, the EI doesn't go in until [i:3860b50b39]everything[/i:3860b50b39] electrical [i:3860b50b39]everywhere[/i:3860b50b39] is made tip-top.
A random arc/short would ruin my day and smack my wallet hard if I didn't.

I see in your posts that you will be taking your meter with you this time. good deal.
take a couple wrenches too.
yank the distributor off...take it over to the picnic table, grab your meter and a beverage and make it right.
put it back on and start it up...yes, it's that easy.
do some reading first, there are about a million posts on that pesky little front distributor to guide you.

:D agree with the other posters about points....sometimes ya need to get mean...once, my meter was telling me..no electrical contact between pads..got em gleaming clean..meter says no contact...huh? I'm looking right at the contact ya stupid meter.
Had to actually groove/scratch the pads with my knife to get contact....made em junk obviously..but got it running. :D
 
" Clamp it in the bench vise and check to see if it's working with my spark checker and battery charger. "

Why not just use an ohm meter?
75 Tips
 
As the others have said figure out why it wont start before considering other options.
I would also try to get some ventilation into the shed and try to get rid of some of the dampness. Storing a tractor in such a damp place causes other problems besides electrical.
Condensation in your engine oil, transmission and rear end, rusting sheet metal, even rusting up your cylinder walls to name a few.
I don't know what your security requirements are at deer camp but an open window or even open garage door would be better than all that mold.
Finally, in defense of EI, that is one place where it Does give you an advantage.
A tractor that is used frequently does fine on points. But with a tractor that sits a lot or is only used every couple months it is very frustrating to have to fool with your bloody points every time you want to use it.
EI doesn't get "invisible corrosion" that you have to scrape off to get it to run. So for an occasional use tractor it is more reliable.
 
Funny that you should mention O'Reilly's. They have points and condenser for N tractors in the BWD brand. I've had a set in my '41 9n for about 2 years and she always starts right up.
 
In my tractor I use those points and some I bet I have not messed with in 10 or more years and they start when I need them to.
 
Points are not a high maintenance thing like some members make them to be.

I have a 41 Case I drive in parades. I start it maybe 12 times a year. The Delco points are six years old. I have not took the cap off once.

I also have a 48 Case. I bought a Case magneto for it in 92. I sanded the points once when I bought it. The mag Has not been off the tractor since 1992.

This spring I changed the points in my 9n that were 13 years old. It was starting and running fine before.

I don't lube or adjust my points. They last for decades.
 
Points in a damp location Are a high maintenance item.
You may live in a dry region or have a particularly dry shed to keep your tractors in.
Or you may just live a charmed life.
But if you do a search in the archives for "points" or "no spark" you would likely find that those questions are asked more often than any other question and more than many other questions combined.
 
(quoted from post at 17:24:32 08/18/15) Points in a damp location Are a high maintenance item.
You may live in a dry region or have a particularly dry shed to keep your tractors in.
Or you may just live a charmed life.
But if you do a search in the archives for "points" or "no spark" you would likely find that those questions are asked more often than any other question and more than many other questions combined.
oils are a high post count item too, but not because there are so many bad coils, but because there are so many people ignorant of coils & many of points, too. tractorguy2, Old, many others, myself included are so familiar with those old systems that what becomes a major obstacle to a lot of these people is no more than running out of gas is to us. :arrow:
 
What you say about people not understanding
is correct.
But I will still contend that the same
questions get asked over and over - when a
tractor has sat for a while and wont start,
or starts running poorly, or becomes hard
to start, that the problem is SO often the
points.
Guys like you or Old or whoever don't need
to ask the questions. They "just unsnapple
the capple" as Dell says and fix the
points.
So even if we don't count you and Old, et
al in our post count statistics, points
are still the least reliable part of the
tractor and they ARE a high maintenance
item.
 

I do miss the days when every thang had points and required a set every year along with a major tune up...

Now days they run 100K and you have to talk them into replacing the plugs and filters :(

Points were good for the bottom line no doubt...

One can make a set last a long time as long as he fiddles with them occasionally... I don't have much use for a front mount ford dist I have bigger fish to fry... For those that are stuck with a front mount Y'all have my condolence's...
 
(quoted from post at 18:24:32 08/18/15) Points in a damp location Are a high maintenance item.
You may live in a dry region or have a particularly dry shed to keep your tractors in.
Or you may just live a charmed life.
But if you do a search in the archives for "points" or "no spark" you would likely find that those questions are asked more often than any other question and more than many other questions combined.

agree
park those perfect points tractors in my one particular shed.
damp, my fault, site not raised enough before building.
grade..water passes underground thru that area....never any visible water.
3 windows, roof vents, and big door open 100% of the time, still has mildew growing on the dirt floor...NE wild temp changes.
Park a points front mount in there for more than a few weeks.....it will not start..period.
not a big deal, I know the score...I don't even try....I clean the mossy points before attempting starting........
I've learned over the years...park those points tractors outside with a short tophat type tarp......they'll start better...love that sunshine... I'd use nothing at all like the real farmers do up here, but I hate water in the rearend.
 

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