Finally got the tractor up and running last week after dealing with starting issues, although now it is in over 100 pieces once again. I have had a knock in the engine since I bought this tractor, and decided to investigate now instead of waiting till winter. What I found: cylinder 1 was/is missing the piston sleeve, (I found it at the bottom of the oil pan) cylinders 2-4 look great after pulling them. Initially my plan was to purchase the kit for all new sleeves, pistons, and the rings, but now after looking at my budget for this project I believe I am going to replace the one sleeve and the rings on that piston. My question is, what size sleeve do I get? How do you tell what size is used? Oh, my tractor is a 48 8n.
- Thread starter Snitkerb
- Start date
If you have a set of micrometers/veriniers (very nears) you can mic one of the panfishes for size or take a piece to your local machine shop and ask them to mic them.
Be sure to check your bearings and crank for excessive wear.
You might be happier holding off buying parts and get all new sleeves, ect, ect. while you have it all apart at this point. I thought about only going with just replacing the sleeve like you are thinking about doing. It's apart now be sad to think spending all that time putting it together only to find low compression on the other 3 cylinders.
I just went thru this in May after dropping the #1 sleeve during a snow storm in February.
I'm glad I held off and did all the sleeves,ect,ect.
Be sure to check your bearings and crank for excessive wear.
You might be happier holding off buying parts and get all new sleeves, ect, ect. while you have it all apart at this point. I thought about only going with just replacing the sleeve like you are thinking about doing. It's apart now be sad to think spending all that time putting it together only to find low compression on the other 3 cylinders.
I just went thru this in May after dropping the #1 sleeve during a snow storm in February.
I'm glad I held off and did all the sleeves,ect,ect.
Harold Melius
Member
This sounds like a bad April fools joke. Was the sleeve in one piece when you found it? If you have been running the tractor with no sleeve in it, I doubt that the piston is in any shape to use again. I would also think the block walls would be to scored to put another sleeve into. If the engine had 0.40 sleeves, possibly it could be bored to accept a .090 sleeve, if the damage is not bad.
Can someone explain the difference between the .04 and the .09 piston sleeves? I get that one is thicker than the other, but is the outer diameter the same on each, or inner diameter the same? I am going to hone the cylinder wall and replace the sleeve in cylinder one. The old sleeve is a .04, so in honing the cylinder wall do I have any risk of a .04 sleeve not fitting correctly?
TheOldHokie
Well-known Member
- Location
- Myersville, MD
The sleeve bore is the same but the OD is larger on the .090 wall sleeves. You dropped a sleeve in that cylinder because it was too loose to stay put. Honing the block bore will only make the fit looser. If you are going to go with a new .040 sleeve (and I would [b:f43b99056a][u:f43b99056a]strongly[/u:f43b99056a][/b:f43b99056a] suggest new piston with rings to go with it) do not hone the block bore and use a sleeve retaining compound to help keep it in place.
TOH
That's what I assumed. What would you
recommend for the remaining 3 sleeves. They are
in good condition as well as the rings/pistons. The
only thing is slight build up within the sleeves.
Would honing clean them up? Or is there a solvent I
can use? Again, the sleeves, rings, and pistons are
in good working order, even the one the sleeve
broke inside. I am replacing the sleeve and rings in
cylinder 1, but that's all I'm planning on for this
rebuild.
recommend for the remaining 3 sleeves. They are
in good condition as well as the rings/pistons. The
only thing is slight build up within the sleeves.
Would honing clean them up? Or is there a solvent I
can use? Again, the sleeves, rings, and pistons are
in good working order, even the one the sleeve
broke inside. I am replacing the sleeve and rings in
cylinder 1, but that's all I'm planning on for this
rebuild.
Harold Melius
Member
If I am reading your original post correctly, you ran this engine for some time with the sleeve missing and the engine was knocking. If that is the case, and assuming the bearings or something else was not the cause of the knocking, it was caused by the piston slapping the engine block walls. There is NO WAY you should reuse that piston. I can understand the desire to save money, but when you can buy a whole cylinder kit containing the sleeve, rings, wrist pin and a new piston for about $30.00, it doesn't make sense to reuse the old piston. Keep in mind to measure the other cylinder bores to determine if they are standard or oversized, you want them all to match. Also be sure to measure the ring groove width if you use the old piston so you get the correct rings.
TheOldHokie
Well-known Member
- Location
- Myersville, MD
I would suggest that doing anything other than a complete sleeve and piston kit is penny wise and pound foolish. You can buy a complete set of sleeves, pistons, and rings for $175. A single sleeve, piston, and ring set is $46. Your time and money.
TOH
NoNewParts
Member
you will get a lot of advice..to buy/change/rebuild/machine shop...everything.
And that advice is absolutely right.
ok, that said, I have done what you are thinking about many, many times...on my own stuff.
couple things...
block must check out ok..
everything associated with that bad cylinder I would toss in the junk..except the rod..and that would get checked very carefully..they look indestructible..they ain't.
listen to the sleeve guys..that new one has to stay put.
other 3? sure I've honed em a tiny bit with a ball hone before I put it back together.
new rings in all..(I prefer a castiron top ring in old holes)
Rod bearings......I just can't make myself put unknown old ones back in when I have it apart that far.....new same size..I'll now know [i:d472feff10]I[/i:d472feff10] put em there.
Ok, so done, it'll be fine, and I know I did spend a little bit more of your money.....peace a mind ya know.
good luck with your job.
And that advice is absolutely right.
ok, that said, I have done what you are thinking about many, many times...on my own stuff.
couple things...
block must check out ok..
everything associated with that bad cylinder I would toss in the junk..except the rod..and that would get checked very carefully..they look indestructible..they ain't.
listen to the sleeve guys..that new one has to stay put.
other 3? sure I've honed em a tiny bit with a ball hone before I put it back together.
new rings in all..(I prefer a castiron top ring in old holes)
Rod bearings......I just can't make myself put unknown old ones back in when I have it apart that far.....new same size..I'll now know [i:d472feff10]I[/i:d472feff10] put em there.
Ok, so done, it'll be fine, and I know I did spend a little bit more of your money.....peace a mind ya know.
good luck with your job.
Pretty sure it's going to be .090 sleeve. I've never seen a steel sleeve drop??? Guess it could be a .040 cast iron sleeve???
Do not hone the cylinder that dropped the sleeve. Probably why it dropped it.
Get a good sleeve epoxy to keep it from moving again.
Don't drive the sleeve down past the engine block deck level.
Freeze the new sleeve before installing it will help.
Be sure to wash the outside of the new sleeve to get all the preservative off so the epoxy will adhere.
Zane
Do not hone the cylinder that dropped the sleeve. Probably why it dropped it.
Get a good sleeve epoxy to keep it from moving again.
Don't drive the sleeve down past the engine block deck level.
Freeze the new sleeve before installing it will help.
Be sure to wash the outside of the new sleeve to get all the preservative off so the epoxy will adhere.
Zane
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