The over heating continues

OHLowell

Member
Good afternoon all.

Ok I've read a lot and I'm getting ready to tackle this thing head on! My plans are to pull the hood/tank to be able to get to everything easily. I'm going to clean the fins with low pressure air and water and give the radiator a good once over. Back flush the block and radiator really well.

Replace the cap (no gasket and unsure of the PSI setting). New thermostat, new hoses.

Fill with 2/1 water/vinegar mixture and run until well heated several times and flush again. Then.....hope for the best.

While I was sitting pondering these antics last night it occurred to me that there is no fan shroud on my tractor. Man, a new one is pricey though. I know it's cheaper than a new motor but is there another "redneck" option that I may be able to pursue in regards to the shroud (at least for now)?

Also, are there any down sides to pulling the water pump to inspect the impeller? Is the impeller something that I can see from the top radiator pipe once I have the pipe removed? Do I need to have more cork material on hand to make a new gasket if/when I would remove the pump? I figure while I'm at it and have the tractor down for a week or so I'd be ahead to just pull everything apart and give it a once over.

As always, thanks in advance.

Lowell
 
Several of my Ns do not have shrouds and they do not have cooling problems. Early 9Ns did not have shrouds.
 
I do & have run them with & without shrouds and once on same tractor with & without & didn't see a nickles worth of difference.
 
I can't remember a shroud on my 52 8N. It has been in the family since new and I have been on it since I was 10. Well, not literally.
Richard in NW SC
 
NO WATER just straight vinegar and run it. Vinegar is only 5% acid so by mixing it with water you make it more like 2% which is just not strong enough to do much of any thing. So just straight vinegar. Run it a few times till good and warm then let cool and do it again. Then rig up a way to hook a garden hose to the block drain and back flush the system with out a thermostat in the system for say an hour or so. When I drain the vinegar out I try to catch it that way I can see if it got rusty looking and also see piece of dirt etc in it. Rigging up a flush tool is easy to do just a couple pipe fittings and a piece of old garden hose
 
Wht model tractor?

2N, 9N, 8N, NAA........???

If it's a 2N, it's not pressurized. The others take a 4lb cap.

The most common reason for an N to “over heat” is over filling the radiator. Only add enough fluid to cover the core. (check out tip # 24, below as well as tips 25 & 35) It is not actually over heating; it is just spewing out the excess water.

So how do you know it's overheating & not just over filled? Did you put a thermometer in the coolant?

If the radiator is not overfilled, check for low coolant, a loose fan belt, debris in the radiator fins or a stuck thermostat. A bad water pump will usually squeak or leak. (If you ever have a water pump start leaking or making noise, replace it immediately. A N water pump will come apart & launch the fan into the radiator.) And, unless you have a new/rebuilt water pump from a reputable source, it could have impeller erosion. The pump will turn, it won’t leak, but it isn’t circulating water.

In order to have a stuck thermostat, you need to have one installed. Squeeze the top hose; if it has a t-stat, you can feel it. Sometimes (rarely) the t-stat can migrate in the hose & get stuck closed. Or, in an attempt to keep that from happening, some owners will put a third clamp on the hose & tighten it too much resulting in a stuck t-stat. The OEM top hose came w/ a non-adjustable ban to keep the t-stat in place.

The fan belt should have 1/2" of flex at the mid-point; no more, no less.

Unless you have a pusher fan, blowing out the radiator from the engine side is always a good idea.

But, sometimes you just have to bite the bullet & flush out the block & radiator. To do that, remove the t-stat from the top hose. Then, remove the bottom hose from the radiator, stuff a rag in the bottom radiator hose connection, & stick your garden hose in the top of the radiator. Turn the water on (reverse flush) & the water will flow into the radiator, then the block & out of the disconnected lower hose. Let it run until the water is clear. Then, check the radiator flow. Stick the hose in the top of the radiator; the water should flow out of the bottom w/o backing up in the filler neck. It should flow at 19.5 gallons a minute. As a final flush, put a gallon of white vinegar & about 2 gallons of water in the radiator, run it to operating temp & then drain it again. Don’t forget to put the t-stat back in correctly!

Use 50/50 anti-freeze & distilled water as your coolant. The anti-freeze contains rust inhibitors, pump lubricant & raises the boiling point of the coolant.

" is there another "redneck" option that I may be able to pursue in regards to the shroud (at least for now)?"

Yes.

Do all of the above first. A clean block & radiator, new coolant & t-stat & an adjusted fan belt might let you get away w/ no shroud.

" Also, are there any down sides to pulling the water pump to inspect the impeller?"

Yes.

It's unlikely to be your problem especially if you see water moving in the radiator. Do all of the above & see what happens.
75 Tips
 
If it's a 2N, it's not pressurized. The others take a 4lb cap.I know you meant to say 9Ns.2Ns used a 4psi pressurized system starting in 1943.
 
OHLowell. not sure if you meant to do the maintenance
literally in that order but if so I would rearrange it a tad.
Do the cleaning and flushing as is, without a thermostat.
Put the new thermostat and hoses on afterwards.

Also, I don't know where you're located but if you need
one I have a good 8N shroud here in Central Michigan.
My email is open on modern view.
 
Thanks all for the input.

Tractor is a 1946ish 9n motor with a 2n rearend. I've still yet to figure out the reason for this.

A few thoughts. The order I listed the work in was just the order in which it spilled out of my head onto the keyboard.

As for the shroud. I suppose I'll try cleaning everything up before I worry with it.

Thanks again. I'll keep everyone posted on the progress.

Lowell
 
"As for the shroud. I suppose I'll try cleaning everything up before I worry with it."

That's what I would do too. My 9N doesn't have a shroud.
But I do have one if you need it.

P.S. If the serial number is 1946 its a 2N engine.
The 2N serial numbers started with "9N" also.
Best of luck! :)
 
If your filler neck and cap look like this you have an unpressurized system. My gasket was pretty worn out in the photo and allowed the cap to spin freely. A couple of minutes with a screwdriver, gasket material and scissors solved that problem. My 9N doesn't have a shroud either.
IMG_1980_zps7856607b.jpg
 
Ok. Now I'm wondering off in the weeds....but.....I'm questioning what model my tractor actually is. Engine serial number 9N257132. My research shows that this places the tractor in the 2N catagory. The rear trumpet is cast with 6-17-46 and is marked 2N. I have always called the tractor a 9n but I guess I stand corrected.

However, my radiator cap is not like the one like that posted by ScoutB. I realize that just because my cap isn't like that doesn't mean that I have the right cap. So if I'm hearing correctly that the 2N isn't pressurized then I question if my radiator hasn't been replaced at some time in the past. I'll take a photo of the cap and the radiator neck tomorrow and post up a picture for everyone to analyze.

The question in my mind now is if the radiator is a presureized type, will that damage the tractor with a properly adjusted 4# cap? I would say if it would hurt the tractor it would have already hut that's just my thoguhts.

Anyone else have any thoughts?

I really appreciate all of the help gang!

Lowell
 
I may be wrong, but it was my understanding that the major differance between a 9n and a 2n was the 2n had a pressurized system and a shroud. So ,if that is the case, It is a 2N made in 46 with a pressurized cooling system. Go back and re read Bruce(va) post about cleaning the cooling system. You cant go wrong with rhat advice. . Even though you could get by without one, buy that used shroud. Just overall makes the airflow more efficient.
 
After flushing, my 2n was still overheating. I finally found the radiator had been replaced with a 2-row. Replacing it with a 3-row cured the problem. Cost a bit, but cheaper than a cracked block.
 
(quoted from post at 07:48:35 07/01/15) After flushing, my 2n was still overheating. I finally found the radiator had been replaced with a 2-row. Replacing it with a 3-row cured the problem. Cost a bit, but cheaper than a cracked block.

I'm not sure but I think mine may be a 2 row as well. Hmmmm. More food for thought.
 
I have a feeling that cured the symptoms, but 2 vs 3 wasn't the issue.

you may have had a plugged up 2.
 
like said, always make sure your flush flow is going the opposite way of normal.(that includes the radiator...)
Be aggressive, if you ain't soaked at the end, you're being too easy.
Take a long look at your radiator.
I've seen cheapo replacements that the core looked like it wouldn't cool a bicycle.

also ditto on the no shroud. while a shroud is always better,
I've run without one with no issues.
caps? while I'll probably take some heat for this....[i:e5e197c0ca]none[/i:e5e197c0ca] of
my tractors have the cap tightened all the way, first click is fine...no overheat issues. (old habit I can't break from my driving junk cars days...)
On old junk, if I need to raise the boiling point with pressure...I have other issues to address and fix.

a quick look in the neck with it running without a thermostat will tell you all you need to know about the waterpump.
(and make sure the bearing isn't leaking, wobbling, squawking)

ps Don't overlook your engine....a too lean or badly retarded (advance not working etc) engine will put too much heat into the cooling system and overwhelm even a good one.)
 
Good evening all.

I finally got a chance to take some pictures of the cap and the neck on my tractor's radiator.

The neck does not appear to be the type that is unpressurized. As you can see form the pictures of the cap, there is no gasket and the cap is basically just a vent to the open atmosphere. Also on one picture of the neck you can see that there is a pressed hole in the neck. I would assume that this is the vent hole for the radiator when the 4# spring lifts. On closer examination you can see that there appears to be a crack near the neck. I did notice that this crack will spit coolant when the tractor is hot. I plan on brazing it during the process of flushing the block and radiator.

Thoughts?





 
Unless you are super good or super lucky, I would clean and
solder a small crack instead of trying to braze it. Brazing may
create too much heat and melt the already soldered joints.
Just my two cents, your mileage may vary. :)
 
Just my 2 cents here. My 1940 9N taught me that the only thing a fan shroud is good for is to make it hard to reach the distributor. Has no
effect on cooling or heating. Several times I have had to get off the tractor and pick up the radiator cap because it fell off. Only time
she has "boiled over" was when I over filled the radiator tank. Bruce VA gave you some great advice, I would reread his post and go from
there.
 

That cap is the same I have on my 46/47 2N. Same neck on rad. Do the vingar and back flush as advise. When I did mine the 1st time I didn't back flush. Shame on me. Got three times as much dirt, rust and junk out with the back flush. :D
 
Vinegar first or back flush first? Hopefully I'll get to tear into this later today but there's lots of other things to do around the farm today. :-/
 
Well I started this project tonight at about 10:00. I drained the radiator added the vinegar and let the tractor run for a bit (it was already warm when I added the vinegar.). It got hot pretty quick. I turned it off and let it sit. I grabbed the air compressor and the air nozzle and started blowing out the radiator from the fan side. I had no idea how much grass seed there could actually be in thr fins! I bet I blew out a pound and a half of grass seed and funk from the field.

I drained the first round of vinegar (it was cloudy and appeared to have some sediment in it ) and added round #2 of vinegar. Started the tractor back up and it ran for almost 45 minutes and didn't get over 175 degrees in the neck of the radiator (measured with a candy thermometer ) I'm leaving this vinegar to sit overnight befo re E heating up the tractor again tomorrow and back flushing the block.

I'm embarrassed to say but I think my problem may have been all of the seed in the radiator. Relieved but embarrassed none the less. Even if that is all that is the issue I'm still going to replace the hoses and thermostat and solder the cracks in the radiator neck.

I'll keep everyone posted on my progress.

Thanks
Lowell
 
No need to be embarrassed, That's the good thing about this forum everyone of us has been there done that. There is great info here find and use it. If vinegar and cleaning radiator fix the problem, fill with antifreeze and enjoy the tractor. Then have a cold one.
 
Let's hope that's all it was!
The cleaning/back flush was probably due anyway.
Once you're done you should be good for quite a while
other than blowing out the radiator from time to time.
 
Well the saga continues......

Thus far I have drained the radiator. Blown a lots of grass seed out of the radiator and added a piece of aluminum screen to the front of the grill to help combat grass seed entrainment in the future. Filled with vinegar and run the tractor to warm 3 times with 2 changes of vinegar. Back flushed the engine through the radiator fill cap for 20+minutes. Refilled the radiator with 50/50 antifreeze mix.

The tractor idles and drives without over heating. However, when the tractor is working (bush hogging fairly thick grass) it begins to steam out of the radiator cap and will really hiss and bubble when the tractor is turned off abruptly.

Needless to say I'm at a loss. I did discover that there is no thermostat in the tractor. However, I don't think this would effect the overheating this time of year. Tomorrow I'm going to order new hoses and a thermostat. When looking in the neck of the radiator I can see that there appears to be a few tubes in the radiator that look gunked up. Could it be that the radiator is too gummed up to exchange enough heat when the tractor is working hard? That seems logical to me. I don't want to have to replace the radiator but I need the tractor to be functional for work on the farm and will if I have to.

One last thought. What is the coolant system capacity? It will only take just about a gallon to fill it just over the core. That doesn't seem like enough to me. This would be something else that would leave me to think the radiator may be gunked up.

Thanks everyone for the help!

Lowell
 
It will only take just about a gallon to fill it just over the core. That doesn't seem like enough to me.

Is that a gallon after draining the radiator by pulling the lower hose and [i:be403a481f]also[/i:be403a481f] opening the freeze plug in the block? Either way that is not close to enough capacity. The FO-4 manual states 3 gallons as full capacity but I got just over 2.5 in my freshly flushed block and radiator.
 
(quoted from post at 00:25:32 07/06/15)
It will only take just about a gallon to fill it just over the core. That doesn't seem like enough to me.

Is that a gallon after draining the radiator by pulling the lower hose and [i:6207b6637e]also[/i:6207b6637e] opening the freeze plug in the block? Either way that is not close to enough capacity. The FO-4 manual states 3 gallons as full capacity but I got just over 2.5 in my freshly flushed block and radiator.

I did not pull the freeze plug on the tractor. This is the first time I've heard about doing that. Just a quick search on the freeze plugs it kind of looks like messing with them could be the beginning of a terrifically horrible experience. Even with the freeze plugs still in the block I would think that the radiator by itself would hold more than a gallon of coolant?

Thoughts?
 
(quoted from post at 09:35:14 07/06/15)
Sorry, freeze plug was the wrong term. Hey, it was late and it had been a long day! Meant to say the drain-tap on the side of the engine, by the oil filter. Unscrewing it will let out water and a little gunk, but removing both the insert and the body allows larger debris to flow out.

Looks like this guy; http://www.yesterdaystractors.com/Ford-9N_Radiator-Drain-Tap_C9NN8115A.html

I will investigate this when I get home.

I'm going to order the new thermostat and bottom hose this morning. The bottom hose is now perfectly round in the middle and could be restricting flow SOME but I don't think this is the problem but I'm at a loss so I'm trying everything.

Once I drain the block as you explained and add the thermostat and bottom hose fi the problem doesn't resolve. Do you think that the next logical step is to replace the radiator? I would like to have this one re-cored but that is even more expensive than the replacement! Maybe some day when she can be a show tractor but for the time being she's a working gal.

Thanks,
Lowell
 
(quoted from post at 09:35:14 07/06/15)
Sorry, freeze plug was the wrong term. Hey, it was late and it had been a long day! Meant to say the drain-tap on the side of the engine, by the oil filter. Unscrewing it will let out water and a little gunk, but removing both the insert and the body allows larger debris to flow out.

Looks like this guy; http://www.yesterdaystractors.com/Ford-9N_Radiator-Drain-Tap_C9NN8115A.html

I will investigate this when I get home.

I'm going to order the new thermostat and bottom hose this morning. The bottom hose is now perfectly round in the middle and could be restricting flow SOME but I don't think this is the problem but I'm at a loss so I'm trying everything.

Once I drain the block as you explained and add the thermostat and bottom hose fi the problem doesn't resolve. Do you think that the next logical step is to replace the radiator? I would like to have this one re-cored but that is even more expensive than the replacement! Maybe some day when she can be a show tractor but for the time being she's a working gal.

Thanks,
Lowell
 
My personal experience has been, on both my 2N and 8N that if you don't yank that plug a good bit of debris will drift down low into the water galleys. My technique was using an air hose nozzle shoved into that drain hole while there was about a half capacity of water in the system. bubbled it up real nice and sent a geyser out of the top of the radiator neck.

Thing is I had vinegar flushed the block and drained it via the lower radiator hose then shoved the water sprayer in the upper radiator hose for a good while. Even with that treatment I still got quite a bit more grit once that drain plug was out.

If you can't put in at least two gallons once that plug is out then you've either got a smaller radiator core or a serious build-up in the block that needs more attention.
 
So you back flushed the water galleys by blowing air in through the block drain plug?

From the sound of your response you didn't remove the radiator prior to doing this you just blew everything backwards out the neck of the radiator. Would removing the water pump make this process any easier? Aside from having to disassemble the tractor to get the water pump out etc etc.?

Sounds like I've got my work cut out for me again this evening!

Thanks for all the help.
Lowell
 
(quoted from post at 08:15:09 07/06/15) So you back flushed the water galleys by blowing air in through the block drain plug?

From the sound of your response you didn't remove the radiator prior to doing this you just blew everything backwards out the neck of the radiator. Would removing the water pump make this process any easier? Aside from having to disassemble the tractor to get the water pump out etc etc.?

Here was my flushing process;

1) Pull lower radiator hose at radiator connection.
2) Open drain tap in block.
3) Open drain tap at the bottom of the radiator.
4) Insert garden hose nozzle into upper radiator hose spill-way and run water through the system for 10 minutes(it drains out of the lower rad hose).
5) Re-attach rad hose and close drain taps.
6) Fill system with vinegar(mine took 2 gallons to fill).
7) Run engine to operating temp, shut down, allow to cool. Repeat process 3 times over the course of 1 day.
8) Drain vinegar and repeat steps 1-5.
9) Repeat step 7.
10) Repeat steps 1-3. Pull drain tap from block(plug and housing), re-attach lower rad hose.
11) Insert water hose into filler neck on a low/medium flow with air hose nozzle plugging the drain tap opening in the block.
12) Agitate liquid inside the system by shooting air through it in bursts, causing the action of the flow to loosen more grit and dirt(this is what caused the water geyser out of the filler neck).

This took me about 3 days to do but when I was done the water flowed clear even after one more vinegar run. I really only bothered with such an intensive clean because I figured that once this was done I'd not have to go through the process for years to come. The water pump wasn't removed, but if you can't verify that it's pushing a good flow then(as discussed in another thread recently) the impeller may be erroded to the point that it's not circulating the water well enough.

I did this exact process with my new 8N and had to pull the head for a separate reason and saw almost shiny water galleys in the block. But that thing had pine needles in the galleys. Pine needles. I'd love to learn how [i:af99876f78]that[/i:af99876f78] happened.
 
7/16/2015 Update.

It finally quit raining for more than 4hours here in Ohio so I was able to get the tractor out of the big barn and closer to the shop to start the water galley blowout.

At first when I opened the drain plug I didn't get anything out of the drain. I disconnected the hoses and used the air compressor to blow in the block drain. I got a geyser of crud out of the tractor.



I blew it out the first time, then filled everything back up and blew it out again. And finally I got water to back wash and flush out of the drain plug.



Apparently during this process it looks like some of the crud blew back into the radiator (through the upper waterpump line). It looks like the water is just sitting on top of the core and there is some gunk in the core as well. I plan on pulling off the hood and everything this weekend and removing the radiator and trying to flush some water around in it and clean it out some as well.

After the 3rd round with the air compressor, when I filled the coolant it actually took almost 2 gallons of coolant! That's a tremendous improvement over where it was!

I showed one of my coworkers the picture of the crud that I flushed out and he said it looks like it could be caused by a small leak in the head gasket. I don't really even want to think about that right now but what do you guys think? I don't see any oil and water mixing in the oil pan but again this is my first tractor project.

Thanks, as always for all the help!

Lowell
 
You need to try and figgure out what that corn mill look'N batter is.
My guess is somewhere along the line someone doped it up...

Rad, water pump and freeze plugs would come off/out if I were working on it so I could flush all that chit out... I may even go farther but that's the least I would do...

Once you get the rad out you can do a redneck flow test on the rad... Replace both hoses they get restricted are separate on the inside also but its rare...
 
Looks like a lot of nasty spunk you got out of there. why not just flush the rad installed and give it a try. wont cost nothing really. if it don't work or something is leaking you will be elbow deep in it soon enough but worth a try.
 
(quoted from post at 11:07:57 07/17/15) You need to try and figgure out what that corn mill look'N batter is.
My guess is somewhere along the line someone doped it up...

Rad, water pump and freeze plugs would come off/out if I were working on it so I could flush all that chit out... I may even go farther but that's the least I would do...

Once you get the rad out you can do a redneck flow test on the rad... Replace both hoses they get restricted are separate on the inside also but its rare...

When I first flushed the rad with the vinegar I got some while scale out of the hoses when I drained. I think when I added the 50/50 antifreeze mix it just stained the scale yellow.
 
(quoted from post at 12:41:04 07/17/15) Looks like a lot of nasty spunk you got out of there. why not just flush the rad installed and give it a try. wont cost nothing really. if it don't work or something is leaking you will be elbow deep in it soon enough but worth a try.

I tried to flush some water through the radiator with my gallon jug. I'll drag out the hose tonight and give it a whirl.

During the whole process I have thoroughly soaked the points with antifreeze and other funk so it looks like I be cleaning those up again as well! They'll get replaced once everything is settled with the overheating but I don't see the sense in replacing them before I'm done.
 
You can't "flush" a radiator with a gallon jug! You need 20 gallons per minute flowing reverse direction through the radiator (bottom toward top).
 
(quoted from post at 12:53:45 07/17/15) You can't "flush" a radiator with a gallon jug! You need 20 gallons per minute flowing reverse direction through the radiator (bottom toward top).

You are correct. I suppose my choice of words was wrong. I tried to rinse some of the scale from inside the radiator.
 
(quoted from post at 22:44:43 07/17/15)
(quoted from post at 11:07:57 07/17/15) You need to try and figgure out what that corn mill look'N batter is.
My guess is somewhere along the line someone doped it up...

Rad, water pump and freeze plugs would come off/out if I were working on it so I could flush all that chit out... I may even go farther but that's the least I would do...

Once you get the rad out you can do a redneck flow test on the rad... Replace both hoses they get restricted are separate on the inside also but its rare...

When I first flushed the rad with the vinegar I got some while scale out of the hoses when I drained. I think when I added the 50/50 antifreeze mix it just stained the scale yellow.

What ever it is it's not spose to be there... I spec its not only in the top hose... BTW that lower hose (looks like a flex hose by the way the outer is rapped) is one that will separate on the inside. hose...

Pickle Juice is another one of those haftarse gimmicks folks come up with...
 
(quoted from post at 21:08:47 07/17/15)
(quoted from post at 22:44:43 07/17/15)
(quoted from post at 11:07:57 07/17/15) You need to try and figgure out what that corn mill look'N batter is.
My guess is somewhere along the line someone doped it up...

Rad, water pump and freeze plugs would come off/out if I were working on it so I could flush all that chit out... I may even go farther but that's the least I would do...

Once you get the rad out you can do a redneck flow test on the rad... Replace both hoses they get restricted are separate on the inside also but its rare...

When I first flushed the rad with the vinegar I got some while scale out of the hoses when I drained. I think when I added the 50/50 antifreeze mix it just stained the scale yellow.

What ever it is it's not spose to be there... I spec its not only in the top hose... BTW that lower hose (looks like a flex hose by the way the outer is rapped) is one that will separate on the inside. hose...

Pickle Juice is another one of those haftarse gimmicks folks come up with...
tead of pickle juice, how about CLR from wife's kitchen cabinet under sink or muratic acid? Got any good rust & scale remover recommentations?
 

Rad, water pump and freeze plugs would come off/out if I were working on it so I could flush all that chit out... I may even go farther but that's the least I would do...

I have built N engines and had the block vatted out even then had to dig sediment out of the block... I can not be made a believer Pickle Juice is a magic cure-all...

When a flush gimmick of any kind works you have to be able to flush and back flush with pressure and a good water supply... On some engines the block freeze plugs are core plugs need to come out...

I am not totally again this gimmick its just the way folks go about it...
 
Where are the freeze plugs on this engine? I don't see anything that looks the part to me. I've heard horror stories about them coming out never to return again.
 
(quoted from post at 17:04:31 07/17/15) Where are the freeze plugs on this engine? I don't see anything that looks the part to me. I've heard horror stories about them coming out never to return again.
see one just above and fwd of your peeing drain cock picture. All N engines are not same, look for another behind starter and two more fwd of the one in your picture.
 
(quoted from post at 18:18:21 07/17/15) Drill and tap them and use a puller to get them out or will they just knock sideways and pull out?
rill & self tapper or dent puller ....won't knock sideways as they sit on a ridge around the hole.
 
(quoted from post at 18:33:40 07/17/15) Alright now all I need is someone to tell me to quit being a scary cat and pull them. ;-)]
ot new disks to put back?
 
(quoted from post at 18:38:24 07/17/15)
(quoted from post at 18:33:40 07/17/15) Alright now all I need is someone to tell me to quit being a scary cat and pull them. ;-)]
ot new disks to put back?

Going to locate some tomorrow before I pull anything apart.
 
1 3/16
NAPA # 219-1021

They are called Expansion plugs, Steel- Shallow Cup...

Well,,, they can be a bear to get out the dent puller trick works well... About any other way can be intimidating...

What ever that chit is you need to go for the kill and try and get it all out, Its nutting normal I have ever seen...

I still think its self inflected (someone put it there)....

Does it fix your problem I dunno, It nothing that would be considered normal and does throw up a flag... Its gotta GO :!:

You have a Cracker Jack Box...

Every box you open up has a surprise in it :lol:
 
wow, what [i:ed99a2950d]is[/i:ed99a2950d] that muck........
crazy chemist mixture of stopleak brands probably.

actually, 2 things would have me encouraged.
1, the muck(don't look like it would cool well lol)
2, no flow out of the block drain(ok, sediment)
ok, found the problem, now just time and work and it will be better without mega $.

again, get mean with that puppy.
while pulling the plugs and hand digging is best, even on a casual flush ya gotta go overkill.
I just use water, I'm not a chemist and don't know what [i:ed99a2950d]any[/i:ed99a2950d] brew will do to old delicate radiators and/or each other...see your muck above lol.
example...block with hoses disconnected and fittings out...high pressure end on my garden hose, kink the hose, up against the block drain hole, wrap a rag, lean hard and let er rip. bath time. pounding on the block with a rubber hammer helps too. alternate the hose in every block opening/inlet/outlet until I wouldn't be afraid to take a drink of the water exiting.
radiator, same deal without the pressure end on the hose.
hose in the bottom outlet, wrap a rag and let er go. gurgle, gurgle...bath time again.
It's not a 5 minute job. more is better here.
more water...more pressure on parts that won't be hurt by it....and [i:ed99a2950d]more[/i:ed99a2950d] water :D
 
Alright. I now have new freeze plugs and a dent puller in my possession.

I assume I can drill through the old plugs so I can use the dent puller to get them out. My question is do I have to worry about anything behind those plugs should drilling them not go exactly as planned? I'll be careful drilling them but sometimes you can't help but drill too deep.

FYI

the Napa part number has been updated. I don't have the number in front of me right thus moment but the first three digits have been changed. I'll post those up once I can reverify them.

Thanks all.

Lowell
 
(quoted from post at 13:40:26 07/19/15) Alright. I now have new freeze plugs and a dent puller in my possession.

I assume I can drill through the old plugs so I can use the dent puller to get them out. My question is do I have to worry about anything behind those plugs should drilling them not go exactly as planned? I'll be careful drilling them but sometimes you can't help but drill too deep.

FYI

the Napa part number has been updated. I don't have the number in front of me right thus moment but the first three digits have been changed. I'll post those up once I can reverify them.

Thanks all.

Lowell
air distance in before you encounter the cylinders. Nothing much to worry about.
 
7/21/2015 Update.

First off. The harbor freight dent puller is garbage! I broke the hook on the second pull!

One plug is removed. There really wasn't any funkiness to speak of behind the plug. I was surprised.

The two remaining plugs are behind the oil filter and the starter and I hope to have them out either tonight or over the weekend for sure.





Once all of the plugs are removed I will back flush everything really well to be sure that I get everything that I can out.

I recall something in the list of 75 things about ford tractors about the starter. Is there anything that I need to worry about when I pull the starter? Is there something that I need to do to hold it together or something?

So from here I will remove the last two plugs and back flush. I'll still need to remove the hood so I can solder the crack in the neck of the radiator and I'll back flush the radiator while I have everything out. Since the hood is off I'll probably pull the water pump and give it a once over while I have everything apart.

Then hopefully I will have this overheating issue running scared!
 
That hard pack junk you may never get it all its notcher problem... Its that yeller snot you are hunt'N and exterminate...
 
Couple years ago, me & my Dad pick a Farmall H. Turned out to be a basket case. Got it home, after it idle/worked for 20 mins or less. It would overheat. IHC section told me its the rad. Took it to really good rad shop, they flowed it. Took 30 seconds for coolant to go across it. They cleaned it, down to 16 seconds, said new about 12 seconds. Put back in, still overheats. I had replace the water pump, pulley was cracked. Tried couple t-stats, no better. Removed the water manifold, there was scale built up bad. Took off the cylinder head, there was also scale there. Head went to engine shop to get cleaned & checked over. I used mutric acid to break up the scale, then long screwdriver, coat hanger, magnet to remove the scale. It was a long project. Got out 1/2 gallon pail worth of scale or more. Put it all back together, has a 6ft belly mower under neath. I mowed grass for 9hrs, wide open throttle, 95F outside. Gauge stay just below "Run". Before it would hit HOT in the winter time. Maybe that's your issue, people before used hard water with lots of iron in it? Just a thought, I know the red guys told it was the rad a million times. It wasn't the rad! Good luck
 
7/31/2015 UPDATE:

Well I finally freed up enough time to get all of the plugs out and get the block flushed. I was amazed when I pulled the plugs the amount of, for lack of a better term, MUD that was behind them. Cylinders 1,3,4 were almost entirely packed in behind the plugs. I dug quite a bit of it out with a screwdriver and a coat hanger before I started flushing.

I would dig some then flush some then dig some more and flush some more. By the time I was done I had the flush water running clear out of all 4 plugs. When I started it was all I could do to get all of the flow to go into the block. Now after a combination of flushing and blasting with air the block will take the entire stream from the hose.

Since I removed the hood to solder the neck of the radiator I figured I would flush the radiator. I back flushed it and flushed it through the neck (with the top pipe clamped off). My garden hose will probably flow about 5-7gal/min. I read that this radiator should handle +-19gal/min. I have to rag the hose and hold it in the radiator neck to get it to even take the lower flow from my garden hose. I'm thinking that if there was this much crap in the block that the radiator is probably packed the same way! As of right now, unless you guys have some wisdom to sway me the other way, I'm just going to buy a new radiator and maybe have the other one reworked at another time.

Thoughts, comments, snide remarks?

Thanks,
Lowell







 
8/5/2015 Update

The new plugs are in! After flushing and digging and flushing and digging I'm confident that the block is a clean as I can get it without pulling the head.

I pulled the water pump and the impeller looks good.

Right now I'm just waiting on the new ignition parts and the radiator and thermostat and hopefully we'll be back in business!



Lowell
 

One of my test

Hold hand over lower outlet of rad fill with water. Stop the water flow and remove hand off lower outlet. It should dump all ALL water in a matter of 3/4 seconds...

I have tested hundreds (in the high 100's maybe a thousand) this way so that means I have had my hands on hundreds of new rads also. I have even went as far as to test the flow on new rads to build a strategy...

One day it hit me I could do this without removing the rad :shock:
I have found and fixed allot of suspect rads are eliminated the rad as the issue with very little time/work....

A local guy had a flow tester but he's dead and gone along with the tester... I learned allot from that guy, not only rads he was a master at anything he wanted to do... I worked for him for a little over a year he was a tool junkie if the shop needed it he brought it he had some neat chit.... If Sun made it he had it, if Bear made it he had it... He always brought the best but in those days there were no cheap china offerings...

Something I never figured out tho if you needed a bolt are nut you had to salvage thu a table in the back of the shop from discarded used hardware... :twisted:

Test your new rad again your old to build a strategy for reference.. :wink:
 
(quoted from post at 08:23:49 08/05/15)

Test your new rad again your old to build a strategy for reference.. :wink:

That's a good idea. Before I put the new one in I'll be sure to compare the 2.

Lowell
 
(quoted from post at 20:31:28 08/05/15)
(quoted from post at 08:23:49 08/05/15)

Test your new rad again your old to build a strategy for reference.. :wink:

That's a good idea. Before I put the new one in I'll be sure to compare the 2.

Lowell

If I were set'N were you were at I would rule out the head gasket its about the only thang left...

(Fill Cooling system with water) Bring a piston up to TDC lock the tractor down in gear and block drive wheels.

Apply 100 PSI (regulated) air pressure to each cylinder while at TDC look for air bubbles out the outlet of rad hose in head... Its simple and FAST...
 
I forgot to post an update.

IT'S ALIVE!!

I buttoned everything back up and the new radiator/thermostat etc are all doing their jobs and the tractor is not overheating anymore! I have been checking the block temp with an infrared thermometer and it runs up to about 235F at the serial number stamp then cools down to about 175-185F and will stay there once the thermostat opens.

Thank you everyone for your help!

Lowell
 
(quoted from post at 07:01:52 10/19/15) I forgot to post an update.

IT'S ALIVE!!

I buttoned everything back up and the new radiator/thermostat etc are all doing their jobs and the tractor is not overheating anymore! I have been checking the block temp with an infrared thermometer and it runs up to about 235F at the serial number stamp then cools down to about 175-185F and will stay there once the thermostat opens.

Thank you everyone for your help!

Lowell
ow did your old vs new radiator 3 to 4 seconds dump test compare?
 

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