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8N noisey

G

Glenn D

Member
Hi Folks.

I wonder if you could listen to this engine and tell me if you think there is an oiling problem. I just got this machine going after being stored for 8 years. The only think I've done so far is Points and plugs. it needs wires too. Carb was dry and clean when I opened it for a peek and I didn't do anything there either. There is a bit of a backfire through the carb so I have to look at timing but it's making a noise like a bad throwout bearing, but that isn't it. I hope you can hear in the video. (hoods off because i'm cleaning the tank out).

https://youtu.be/0XxGPAWwv-4
 

I did catch that quick shot and off angle of the gage.
25-30 was it?
I was being too lazy to watch again and pause the vid. :)
 
(quoted from post at 02:07:26 07/29/15)
I did catch that quick shot and off angle of the gage.
25-30 was it?
I was being too lazy to watch again and pause the vid. :)
Click to expand...

Ahh sorry the Guage isn't working. Reads the same with engine off. There is 30w in there now.
 
(quoted from post at 21:11:45 07/29/15)
(quoted from post at 02:07:26 07/29/15)
I did catch that quick shot and off angle of the gage.
25-30 was it?
I was being too lazy to watch again and pause the vid. :)
Click to expand...

Ahh sorry the Gauge isn't working. Reads the same with engine off. There is 30w in there now.
Click to expand...

Myself, I would not run it without a working oil pressure gauge.
 
(quoted from post at 11:50:02 07/29/15)
(quoted from post at 21:11:45 07/29/15)
(quoted from post at 02:07:26 07/29/15)
I did catch that quick shot and off angle of the gage.
25-30 was it?
I was being too lazy to watch again and pause the vid. :)
Click to expand...

Ahh sorry the Gauge isn't working. Reads the same with engine off. There is 30w in there now.
Click to expand...

Myself, I would not run it without a working oil pressure gauge.
Click to expand...

Guage is on its way. Is there any problems if collapsed pick up screens on these? is it common
 
(quoted from post at 17:04:40 07/29/15)
(quoted from post at 11:50:02 07/29/15)
(quoted from post at 21:11:45 07/29/15)
(quoted from post at 02:07:26 07/29/15)
I did catch that quick shot and off angle of the gage.
25-30 was it?
I was being too lazy to watch again and pause the vid. :)
Click to expand...

Ahh sorry the Gauge isn't working. Reads the same with engine off. There is 30w in there now.
Click to expand...

Myself, I would not run it without a working oil pressure gauge.
Click to expand...

New gauge shows 22 or so lbs cold let it get a little warm and didn't drop below 20. My 9n is the same and never goes below 15 when working hard. Found my stethoscope so I'll try and find the source of the noise next time I'm out there.

Guage is on its way. Is there any problems if collapsed pick up screens on these? is it common
Click to expand...
 
Based on what you say you've done and the backfire, I would
want to look at the valves or at least soak them to free them up.

Here's a clickable link to your [b:80f128430b]Video[/b:80f128430b]
 
(quoted from post at 23:00:07 07/29/15) Based on what you say you've done and the backfire, I would
want to look at the valves or at least soak them to free them up.

Here's a clickable link to your [b:ced18e7fe0]Video[/b:ced18e7fe0]
Click to expand...

OK the top actually sound pretty good ever cyl tapping treaty evenly and not loud. Bottom of #3 I'd a tiny bit noisier Than the rest. The governor is deafening so I think that's the culprit. Never had one off before and haven't looked at f04 yet. Is it just a set of flyweights in there?
 
(quoted from post at 23:00:07 07/29/15) Based on what you say you've done and the backfire, I would
want to look at the valves or at least soak them to free them up.

Here's a clickable link to your [b:6b91c4b572]Video[/b:6b91c4b572]
Click to expand...

Yes I think you are right. Do you mean take the valves out and clean everything? I'm inclined to go that direction anyway just so I can see what condition everything is in. I veve been lucky so fat the 3ns I have were all good out of the box. This one might have sat too long. And I'm going to rely on it pretty heavily.
 
(quoted from post at 09:32:57 08/02/15)
(quoted from post at 23:00:07 07/29/15) Based on what you say you've done and the backfire, I would
want to look at the valves or at least soak them to free them up.

Here's a clickable link to your [b:082280f29f]Video[/b:082280f29f]
Click to expand...

Yes I think you are right. Do you mean take the valves out and clean everything? I'm inclined to go that direction anyway just so I can see what condition everything is in. I veve been lucky so fat the 3ns I have were all good out of the box. This one might have sat too long. And I'm going to rely on it pretty heavily.
Click to expand...
You could take them all out and clean them if you have the tools.
That's probably the "right" way to do it.
But you could also pull the tappet cover off the side and roll
it over by hand to make sure they are all moving and not sticking.
Check for broken parts/retainers while you're looking.

You can spray everything down in there with penetrating oil,
ATF, whatever you like to help free them up.

You can soak the heads of the valves by filling the cylinders.
Let it soak a week or so, recoating the parts through the side
and rolling it over by hand to move things around.

When you're ready to try to start it again, roll it over with the
starter, spark plugs out, to blow most of the ATF/penetrant
out. It makes a mess, but has been known to help.
It will also smoke a lot when you first start it until all that oil
burns out of the cylinders.
 
(quoted from post at 14:49:14 08/02/15)
(quoted from post at 09:32:57 08/02/15)
(quoted from post at 23:00:07 07/29/15) Based on what you say you've done and the backfire, I would
want to look at the valves or at least soak them to free them up.

Here's a clickable link to your [b:cd3ec92165]Video[/b:cd3ec92165]
Click to expand...

Yes I think you are right. Do you mean take the valves out and clean everything? I'm inclined to go that direction anyway just so I can see what condition everything is in. I veve been lucky so fat the 3ns I have were all good out of the box. This one might have sat too long. And I'm going to rely on it pretty heavily.
Click to expand...
You could take them all out and clean them if you have the tools.
That's probably the "right" way to do it.
But you could also pull the tappet cover off the side and roll
it over by hand to make sure they are all moving and not sticking.
Check for broken parts/retainers while you're looking.

You can spray everything down in there with penetrating oil,
ATF, whatever you like to help free them up.

You can soak the heads of the valves by filling the cylinders.
Let it soak a week or so, recoating the parts through the side
and rolling it over by hand to move things around.

When you're ready to try to start it again, roll it over with the
starter, spark plugs out, to blow most of the ATF/penetrant
out. It makes a mess, but has been known to help.
It will also smoke a lot when you first start it until all that oil
burns out of the cylinders.
Click to expand...

Thanks Royse. The lifters on #2 and #4 were stuck on the intake sides. This is probably how the engine was sitting the whole time it was stored. everything's freed up and working perfectly now.

The noisey governor was really gunked up. but all the parts look new as if someone had replaced them but the housing has a groove right near the open end I think this is what it can easily stall at low idle. everywhere else in the range it seems to work fine. oh .. and there were no valve cover gaskets so I've ordered some and the gas tank is too rusty. the gas tank guy said to put a filter on it and run it like that until I find a replacement.
 
(quoted from post at 23:21:23 09/03/15)
(quoted from post at 14:49:14 08/02/15)
(quoted from post at 09:32:57 08/02/15)
(quoted from post at 23:00:07 07/29/15) Based on what you say you've done and the backfire, I would
want to look at the valves or at least soak them to free them up.

Here's a clickable link to your [b:baf3ba8d56]Video[/b:baf3ba8d56]
Click to expand...

Yes I think you are right. Do you mean take the valves out and clean everything? I'm inclined to go that direction anyway just so I can see what condition everything is in. I veve been lucky so fat the 3ns I have were all good out of the box. This one might have sat too long. And I'm going to rely on it pretty heavily.
Click to expand...
You could take them all out and clean them if you have the tools.
That's probably the "right" way to do it.
But you could also pull the tappet cover off the side and roll
it over by hand to make sure they are all moving and not sticking.
Check for broken parts/retainers while you're looking.

You can spray everything down in there with penetrating oil,
ATF, whatever you like to help free them up.

You can soak the heads of the valves by filling the cylinders.
Let it soak a week or so, recoating the parts through the side
and rolling it over by hand to move things around.

When you're ready to try to start it again, roll it over with the
starter, spark plugs out, to blow most of the ATF/penetrant
out. It makes a mess, but has been known to help.
It will also smoke a lot when you first start it until all that oil
burns out of the cylinders.
Click to expand...

Thanks Royse. The lifters on #2 and #4 were stuck on the intake sides. This is probably how the engine was sitting the whole time it was stored. everything's freed up and working perfectly now.

The noisey governor was really gunked up. but all the parts look new as if someone had replaced them but the housing has a groove right near the open end I think this is what it can easily stall at low idle. everywhere else in the range it seems to work fine. oh .. and there were no valve cover gaskets so I've ordered some and the gas tank is too rusty. the gas tank guy said to put a filter on it and run it like that until I find a replacement.
Click to expand...
b:baf3ba8d56][i:baf3ba8d56]

Glenn;
In view of what Royse has told you.....I would go back to the valves, and take a closer look at the sticking intake side of the lifters, and those valves.
I saw the vidio, and noticed the backfire through the carb. That can and will happen with sticky valves/lifters.
I really don't think that the cause of the backfire was/is made by the gov., in any way!!!!

JMHO

Gary :?: [/i:baf3ba8d56][/b:baf3ba8d56]
 
(quoted from post at 02:10:57 09/04/15)
Glenn;
In view of what Royse has told you.....I would go back to the valves, and take a closer look at the sticking intake side of the lifters, and those valves.
I saw the vidio, and noticed the backfire through the carb. That can and will happen with sticky valves/lifters.
I really don't think that the cause of the backfire was/is made by the gov., in any way!!!!

JMHO

Gary :?: [/i][/b]
Click to expand...

Your right. I picked up this tractor and it wasn't running. The governor was so noisy I though the whole bottom end was shot and then the backfire was another problem. the freed valves solved the backfire and rough idle and de-gunking the governor quieted everything else. the only issue now is it stumbles at low idle and I think that's because the governor is grooved keeping the fly balls from opening out smoothly.
 
(quoted from post at 09:02:05 09/04/15)
(quoted from post at 02:10:57 09/04/15)
Glenn;
In view of what Royse has told you.....I would go back to the valves, and take a closer look at the sticking intake side of the lifters, and those valves.
I saw the vidio, and noticed the backfire through the carb. That can and will happen with sticky valves/lifters.
I really don't think that the cause of the backfire was/is made by the gov., in any way!!!!

JMHO

Gary :?: [/i][/b]
Click to expand...

Your right. I picked up this tractor and it wasn't running. The governor was so noisy I though the whole bottom end was shot and then the backfire was another problem. the freed valves solved the backfire and rough idle and de-gunking the governor quieted everything else. the only issue now is it stumbles at low idle and I think that's because the governor is grooved keeping the fly balls from opening out smoothly.
Click to expand...
b:6252a76c31][i:6252a76c31]

Glenn;
You said at the starting para., " Carb was dry and clean when I opened it for a peek and I didn't do anything there either."

OOPS....big mistake with that!!!
I'm now thinking that, you have a 'fuel to air mix problem', In the idle/air settings, OR a -plugged passage- in the carb!!???
(Idle passage)

Try these 'set-ups' for the adj. needles on the carb.



Use this pic. by JMOR, to locate all the passages to be cleaned!!!



Gary
[/i:6252a76c31][/b:6252a76c31]
 
(quoted from post at 13:05:25 09/04/15)
(quoted from post at 09:02:05 09/04/15)
(quoted from post at 02:10:57 09/04/15)
Glenn;
In view of what Royse has told you.....I would go back to the valves, and take a closer look at the sticking intake side of the lifters, and those valves.
I saw the vidio, and noticed the backfire through the carb. That can and will happen with sticky valves/lifters.
I really don't think that the cause of the backfire was/is made by the gov., in any way!!!!

JMHO

Gary :?: [/i][/b]
Click to expand...

Your right. I picked up this tractor and it wasn't running. The governor was so noisy I though the whole bottom end was shot and then the backfire was another problem. the freed valves solved the backfire and rough idle and de-gunking the governor quieted everything else. the only issue now is it stumbles at low idle and I think that's because the governor is grooved keeping the fly balls from opening out smoothly.
Click to expand...
b:ee5398a246][i:ee5398a246]

Glenn;
You said at the starting para., " Carb was dry and clean when I opened it for a peek and I didn't do anything there either."

OOPS....big mistake with that!!!
I'm now thinking that, you have a 'fuel to air mix problem', In the idle/air settings, OR a -plugged passage- in the carb!!???
(Idle passage)

Try these 'set-ups' for the adj. needles on the carb.



Use this pic. by JMOR, to locate all the passages to be cleaned!!!



Gary
[/i:ee5398a246][/b:ee5398a246]
Click to expand...

That's great. I'll be back on it tomorrow and will make these adjustments once the hood and gas tank are back on. What the max engine speed at full throttle for these?
 
(quoted from post at 13:28:45 09/04/15)
(quoted from post at 13:05:25 09/04/15)
(quoted from post at 09:02:05 09/04/15)
(quoted from post at 02:10:57 09/04/15)
Glenn;
In view of what Royse has told you.....I would go back to the valves, and take a closer look at the sticking intake side of the lifters, and those valves.
I saw the vidio, and noticed the backfire through the carb. That can and will happen with sticky valves/lifters.
I really don't think that the cause of the backfire was/is made by the gov., in any way!!!!

JMHO

Gary :?: [/i][/b]
Click to expand...

Your right. I picked up this tractor and it wasn't running. The governor was so noisy I though the whole bottom end was shot and then the backfire was another problem. the freed valves solved the backfire and rough idle and de-gunking the governor quieted everything else. the only issue now is it stumbles at low idle and I think that's because the governor is grooved keeping the fly balls from opening out smoothly.
Click to expand...
b:0776d6f7bf][i:0776d6f7bf]

Glenn;
You said at the starting para., " Carb was dry and clean when I opened it for a peek and I didn't do anything there either."

OOPS....big mistake with that!!!
I'm now thinking that, you have a 'fuel to air mix problem', In the idle/air settings, OR a -plugged passage- in the carb!!???
(Idle passage)

Try these 'set-ups' for the adj. needles on the carb.



Use this pic. by JMOR, to locate all the passages to be cleaned!!!



Gary
[/i:0776d6f7bf][/b:0776d6f7bf]
Click to expand...

That's great. I'll be back on it tomorrow and will make these adjustments once the hood and gas tank are back on. What the max engine speed at full throttle for these?
Click to expand...
b:0776d6f7bf][i:0776d6f7bf]

Rated ...engine @ High idle....2200 rpm
engine @ Low idle....400 rpm
Early 8N's, with out the proof meter avail. .....hard to tell what rpm's you are at...just guessing !!!
Later 8N's with proof meter ....EASY...the proof meter is avail., and closer to what the rpm's really are @ all settings of the throttle!
BUT,...the engine has to be close to 'DEAD NUTS SPEC's' to be rights on those #'s.

Hope ya got a GOOD ear.!!! :lol:

Gary[/i:0776d6f7bf][/b:0776d6f7bf]
 
[\quote][b:01cb345da9][i:01cb345da9]

Rated ...engine @ High idle....2200 rpm
engine @ Low idle....400 rpm
Early 8N's, with out the proof meter avail. .....hard to tell what rpm's you are at...just guessing !!!
Later 8N's with proof meter ....EASY...the proof meter is avail., and closer to what the rpm's really are @ all settings of the throttle!
BUT,...the engine has to be close to 'DEAD NUTS SPEC's' to be rights on those #'s.

Hope ya got a GOOD ear.!!! :lol:

Gary[/i:01cb345da9][/b:01cb345da9][/quote]

Better still I have an optical tach
 
"Better still I have an optical tach"

What type/model tach do you have that works well on an N?
The subject has been discussed a few times but I'm still looking.
BTW, glad you got it running!
 
(quoted from post at 20:53:36 09/04/15) "Better still I have an optical tach"

What type/model tach do you have that works well on an N?
The subject has been discussed a few times but I'm still looking.
BTW, glad you got it running!
Click to expand...

Made me look... it's a dynapar ht50. I can put a target on the crank pull or the hook up for the hydraulic pump and read the rpm's directly. I also have an old wobble stick tach that's surprisingly accurate.
 
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