Time to wake up after 20 year sleep

ScoutB

Member
I'm new to this site and new to old tractors. I just bought a 1940 9N that has been in hibernation in my neighbors garage for the last 20 years. I need some advice on how to coax it back to life after the long sleep. Here is what I know:
[list:fd499135ea]The electrical system is still 6V.
The carburetor was drained after the last time it ran.
When it did run last it did not burn oil.
The left front tire is flat.
There are small puddles of oil/grease under the gearcase.
[/list:u:fd499135ea]
There is a lot to work with here. The sheet metal is straight but with a really ugly paint job. No rust at all. The back tires are in good shape. It comes with a 5' back blade and a single bottom plow. I have plans in the short term to put this tractor to use grading my landscape, plowing snow, and maybe even a little bit of trenching for a sprinkler system. The long term plans are to restore it to original condition. I'm a mechanical engineer and machine designer by trade and I love tinkering with this old stuff. Sometimes I even learn (relearn) something along the way. But you guys have already figured this stuff out. Any advice you can give me to get my new baby off to a good start would be greatly appreciated.
 
Well, it seems as though you have a good solid beginning for your project. (As opposed to a "basket case"). Being a mechanical engineer, you already know the importance of instructions. A good service manual is invaluable. Aftermarket is OK, Factory is better. If the carburetor was drained, I hope the fuel tank was drained also. I would check it for rust scales which could get into the system and cause carburetor problems. Any rust should be cleaned out before putting fuel in it. In worst case scenarios, there is a place called The Eastwood Company that sells cleaner and coating for fuel tanks.Is the engine free? Most will advise you to put a little oil or trans fluid into each cylinder and rotate the engine by hand to distribute the oil over the cylinder walls and piston rings. Of course this will make it smoke for a few minutes when it is fired for the first time. The small puddles of oil likely mean that some seals have dried out over the years and may have to be renewed. The straight sheet metal is a definite plus. And the flat front tire should be no major problem, LOL And good luck and keep us posted, maybe some photos from time to time. Lowell H.
 
Thanks. I haven't tried to see if the motor is free yet but I thought I would pull the plugs and pour in a little ATF before checking. You would think there was probably at least a little scale on the cylinder walls after all this time.
 
You came to the right place Scout.
These guys have helped me bring a couple back from the dead.
They have all the answers, and if not, they'll help you find 'em!
I'm not too far from you, just north of Ionia, MI.
I have at least one of each "N" running and working now plus a parts tractor or two around so let me know if you need anything.
Good luck with your project!
 
You may be suprised. A little fresh gas, new batt and fresh tune up and it could fire right off. I saw an old car pulled out of a pasture after setting 7 years. Fresh gas, cleaned the points and new batt.....fired right up. Look up Bruce's 50 tips and follow them. We like pictures.....hint, hint....and please let us know how it goes.

Rick
 
New to this site but yet you have done a part of the way ATF treatment so tell us the whole story because few would think about doing the ATF thing on there own. That said I would do more then put in a little I would fill the cylinders full to the top and let it sit a week if not more. On the N series you can not do as I do with many and that is fill the cylinders then also pour ATF into the exhaust but that does not work on the fords. It also would not hurt to pout a quart or 2 in the gas tank and open up the sediment bowl valve so as to clean up and oil up the tank and carb so as to help you clean up the carb which maybe a bit pile of rust
 
Thanks guys. After I pull her out into the daylight I'll get some pictures and post them. The ATF thing is a trick I knew about from working on old cars a long time ago. I've been wrenching since I was a teenager. Now that I'm an old(ish) fart I drive much better cars but I haven't forgotten the old tricks. I haven't found Bruce's 50 tips. Which forum? And, would you guys even bother with a new 6V battery or would you go right for the conversion kit? Is there any hope of bringing the old battery back to life long enough to make sure she runs?
 
Bruce's 50 tips 50 tips
If you have a good 6 volt, use it. I don't think a 20 year old 6 volt will get you anywhere. MHO
These old six volt systems need enough voltage to both crank the engine and fire the ignition, so any low battery condition will keep them from starting.
Once you get it all ATF'd up and rolling over, you can jump the starter with a 12 volt easy enough, straight to the post, not to the battery.
Starter will crank faster and the 6 volt battery will power the ignition.
Keep in mind that doing so bypasses the neutral safety switch, so make sure it's in neutral!
 
You nmight consider an 8 volt battery. They are commonly available at places that provide parts and fluids for old tractors.....I put one in my model T Ford and it loves the extra 2 volts....no adjustments required as I can determine. You are going to have fun with the old tractor if you are patient and bring hard problems here for help from some real experts.
If I were you I would slowly open the drain plugs at various places under the tractor to get out accumulated water from oil sumps ASAP.
Put a large drain bucket in place incase of trouble getting plug rethreaded!
 
Bruce (VA) just posted some great advice about this topic on another message board:

Do not attempt to turn the engine over. You could break the rings if they are rusted to the cylinder walls. Pull all plugs, add a tablespoon or so of ATF or MMO in each cylinder. Pull both valve covers & soak everything w/ MMO or ATF. Remove the 15/16 hex nut to the right of the water pump. This is where your oil gallery is for the valves/lifters is. Don't lose the little spring under the nut. Use an oil squirt can to put about a cup of oil in here. Replace the spring & nut. Then, start looking for mouse/hornet nests in places like the tail pipe & carb breather hose. Wait at least 2 or 3 days before you do anything, then try & hand crank the engine. (w/o spark plugs) If it does not turn by hand, repeat everything you just did, ie, more MMO or ATF. If it still won’t turn by hand, remove the starter (see tip # 36) and use a BF screwdriver or jack handle on the ring gear teeth to try & turn it over. Once you get it to turn by hand, then change all the fluids (check tips 3 & 4 at the link below for info on the tranny/pump/rear end fluid change) Fluids include oil & filter, oil in the air cleaner, and 50/50 water & antifreeze. Grease all fittings. Replace the points, plugs, condenser, rotor & cap. If the wires are cracked & frayed, replace them as well, or you will spend days trying to find that one short. Clean all connections bright & shiny. Put a couple of tablespoons of oil in each cylinder to help lubricate the cylinder walls & increase start-up compression. Before you put the valve covers back on, coat everything again w/ oil & re-prime the pump. Clean the fuel screens in the carb & sediment bowl. Spray the carb good w/ carb cleaner. (Some people can get a carb to work like this after setting for years. Some people win the lottery. I have never got away w/ an old carb working; plan on a rebuild). Drain the gas or whatever is in the tank. Add at least two gallons of fresh gas & make sure you have a good flow by removing the bolt at the bottom of the carb. Keep some starting fluid or propane handy. You will need a new battery; it needs a good battery to power the ignition as well as turn over the starter. Spin the starter over (key off) & make sure you have oil pressure showing on the gauge. Remember, you filled the cylinders w/ oil, so it will smoke a lot when it gets going. Once you get it running, just let it idle for a few minutes while you check closely for leaks (oil, water, gas) & make sure it has good oil pressure. Then, it should be run at variable RPM. Internal parts that would normally have a film of oil have gotten dry. Run the engine up to around 1500 RPM and back down, put it in gear and make a few laps around the yard at various speeds. This will quickly get some heat into the oil and splash oil everywhere it needs to be inside the engine. Continue to watch for leaks, smoke or other problems (like no brakes).

<A HREF="http://www.pdfdownload.org/pdf2html/view_online.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.link_disallowed%2Fhowtos%2Fpdfs%2F50-8N-Tips.pdf">50 Tips</A>
 
"You nmight consider an 8 volt battery."

Why would you want to do that?

If you have trouble starting the tractor, clean all the grounds & replace the battery cables. And make sure the battery is good & fully charged. (see tip # 49). An 8v battery can burn up the points & lights & if it's a frontmount distributor, probably the coil as well.

It works like this.......technology & materials being what they were in the 30's, a front coil would melt if it ran on much more than 4 amps for any length of time. (see tip # 38 for an example). In order to get a hot spark at the same time the starter was drawing max current from the battery, a ballast resistor was added in the ignition circuit. What that did was add about .3 ohms of resistance in the circuit, added to the 1.5 ohms of the coil. That got you 3.5 amps or so at start up. As the voltage increased when the engine was running to about 7.5 volts, the resistor heated up, adding more resistance in the circuit. 1.0 ohms hot, plus 1.5 ohms of the coil got you down to 3 amps or so to keep from melting the coil. The same rule (actually, Ohm's Law) applies to a 8v circuit. I= E/R. Current equals voltage divided by resistance. So, 9.4v divided by 2.5 ohms gets you 3.76 amps. The difference of nearly 1 amp means more heat in that front coil. And, if your coil only has 1 ohm of resistance (and a many do) then you're at 4.7 amps.

And, the increased voltage is worse for light bulbs.

Now I'm sure we will hear from folks who are using 8v batteries w/ no problems & some of them may even have an 8v in an 8N. That's not unheard of by any means because some tractors are more easily modified to 8v batteries than others due to coil & v/r considerations….......but why bother? If you tweak the v/r to charge an 8v battery, you need 9.4v. And, tweaking a v/r isn't all that hard as long as you are prepared for the consequences of failure: a boiled battery, burned up v/r or no charge at all.

And, as I recall..........a Model T charging & ignition system is not at all like an 8N Ford!
50 Tips
 
" The long term plans are to restore it to original condition."

If you want it in original condition, then:


"And, would you guys even bother with a new 6V battery or would you go right for the conversion kit?"

the answer to that question would be no.
50 Tips
 

Wow, you guys are amazing and apparently some of you don't sleep. I really appreciate all of the advice and the link to the tips. My neighbor is in no big hurry to have this tractor out of his garage and he's OK with me working on it there so the cylinder soak can be done over many weeks if necessary. I'll keep you posted as things happen.
 

I searched the FAQ to see how many posts I need to post photos but couldn't find it. Does anyone know? And will photobucket photos work?
 
(quoted from post at 00:31:28 07/29/12) Thanks. I haven't tried to see if the motor is free yet but I thought I would pull the plugs and pout in a little ATF before checking. You would think there was probably at least a little scale on the cylinder walls after all this time.

Personally I like Liquid Wrench in the spray can with a little red tube .

The spark plug holes are not over the cylinder so I angle the red tube that direction to make sure I get it in the cylinder .

With the plugs out ( after spraying ) I try to spin the motor by hand using the fan blade .

If it is lose and spins over good then I hit the starter while squirting more in each cylinder .

Before I install the spark plugs I stick my thumb over the hole and spin the fan blade to see if each cylinder is sucking and blowing . If not then take off a side cover and check to see if the valves are moving up and down .
 

Wow, no one has mentioned the clutch. The plate may be frozen to the flywheel.

Go out and block down the clutch pedal, tomorrow if you can.

If you find the clutch plate stuck, there is plenty of info on how to free it up.

KRS
 
I must be a slacker. I wanted to update this thread today and found it 45 pages deep!
I have finally made some progress. The front tires have been replaced, I installed a new battery, and after some ATF soak time the engine turned over easily by hand. It also rolls over nicely with the new battery. I promised photos - here's a couple from before I started:
IMG_0945.jpg

IMG_0943.jpg

The next item on my to-do list is to clean up the fuel system. The tank still has liquid in it (I hesitate to call it gasoline) and so does the sediment bowl. Once I drain it is there a good way to flush the system in place? What I'd really like to do is take the tank out, put in a half gallon of lacquer thinner and shake it for a while but it looks like tank removal is fairly major surgery.
Next question - Bruce's 50 tips talks about selecting oil viscosity based on engine wear and temperature. My engine wear is unknown and it's about to get quite cold here in Michigan. Which viscosity would you start with?
 
Scout, you're only a few miles from me in Ionia.
I run 15W-40 in mine, but if it's going to be really cold you might want to run 10W-30.
That's a nice looking tractor!
Taking the gas tank out would require removing the hood, as the tank is in the
hood, and then removing the tank from the hood.
Not really major surgery, but it is some work.
How much gas is in it? You could just unhook the gas line from the carb and connect
a hose from that into a container to drain it out.
Then clean all the screens, put three gallons of fresh gas in and go from there.
 
(quoted from post at 23:49:11 11/04/12) Scout, you're only a few miles from me in Ionia.
I run 15W-40 in mine, but if it's going to be really cold you might want to run 10W-30.
That's a nice looking tractor!
Taking the gas tank out would require removing the hood, as the tank is in the
hood, and then removing the tank from the hood.
Not really major surgery, but it is some work.
How much gas is in it? You could just unhook the gas line from the carb and connect
a hose from that into a container to drain it out.
Then clean all the screens, put three gallons of fresh gas in and go from there.

Thanks Royse. Yes, Ionia is just down the road but I usually only get there for the fair.
I expect there would be some goop in the bottom of the tank. I suppose it would dissolve in the fresh gas and eventually make it through the system.
 

hi scout,
since your tractor has sat for so long the oil pump most likely has lost prime and you will not have oil pressure . if it were me , i would prime the oil pump a few minutes before i tryed to start it . ( just in case it fires up and wants to run for awhile )
rick
 

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