Ford 8n problems

Good morning all!!
First off I will say I am a new member and first time tractor owner.
To make a long story short, I was having problems with my ford 8N and in the process of elimination I had taken the distributor off coil off. I wanted to check points, condensor, coil shape. Put it all back on and wasn't getting spark. My fault, when putting the coil back on I broke the little spring off. Bought a new coil and put it on. Now I am getting spark. The problem I am now having, when I am trying to start the tractor it acts as if the timing is off. Sounds like it is back firing, puffs smoke out exhaust, ect..
Is this possible with the way the distributer is?
My tractor is a front mount distributer, still has the 6 volt.
Thank you in advanced for any help
 
MCHunter.........check yer firing order. 1,2,4,3 #1 is next to radiator. Yer weird 4-nipple dizzy shuld have firing order engraved by the appropriate nipple. ........HTH, Dell, yer self-appointed sparkie-meister
 
MCH........NO, you can NOT install the 4-nipple dizzy 180* outta time. Its driven by an "OFF-SET" tang scheme. You try to install it 180* out and you will BREAK yer dizzy. .........Dell
 
normally timing.. however if you didn't change timing.. I doubt that.

gapped correctly at .015?

1-2-4-3 fire order?


have you thumb tested the cyls looking for a stuck valve?
 
I did check firing order and it is correct. I didn't touch the timing. Did not check to see if there is a stuck valve.
Make sure I do it correct; pull plug and cycle with thumb over hole to see if there is pressure?
 
(quoted from post at 08:43:49 06/02/15) I did check firing order and it is correct. I didn't touch the timing. Did not check to see if there is a stuck valve.
Make sure I do it correct; pull plug and cycle with thumb over hole to see if there is pressure?
b:d1f98c121a][i:d1f98c121a]

Trace out the wires from EACH cylinder, to the Dist. cap.
Make SURE the wires are in the cap, as per this pic.
Firing order is.....1243 counter clock wise.
It is common to get the #3 & #4 wires in the cap wrong.
Check this pic. out!!!!!!!



Report findings.

Gary[/i:d1f98c121a][/b:d1f98c121a]
 
What did you set your point gap at??? If you set it at 0.025 that is where your problem is since the front mount are 0.015 point gap
 
(quoted from post at 08:36:14 06/02/15) What did you set your point gap at??? If you set it at 0.025 that is where your problem is since the front mount are 0.015 point gap
I didn't change the gap but planned on checking it tonight. I only took distributor off to replace coil and look at point and condenser. I did read to set them at .015
 
(quoted from post at 05:45:35 06/02/15) So what should I do to correct this?
Bruce (va) has a rock solid proceedure for doing this. if you try and eyeball the 1/4 inch from the bolt hole for the points to just start opening this is exactly what happened to me. I made my own jig for setting Where the points just barely start to open After that. I recommend 2 things. Look in the archives for installing points onan 8n with front mount and also, if this tractor is a keeper buy that little jig from TOH .
 
Excuse me. Its TOH. The Old Hokie. Put an inquiry in the next post for how to buy his timing jig. Things will start to happen. If you dont have a service manual. Get one. Use that jig and an ohm meter to tell when the points just start to open. Perhaps put an inquiry for Bruce (VA) to send a link for his proceedure. I highly recomend it. Give it some time, they will be around sooner or later. Oh and one more thing, good luck and have fun.
 
Over time the gap tends to get wider just from the engine running. Also good thing to check is that you have the same gap at all four lubes in the distributor
 
The Montagues and Capulets - two wealthy families in 16th century Italy made famous by Shakespeare in Romeo and Juliet.
It was their bitter fued that made it so Romeo Montague and Juliet Capulet could never marry and so the tragic play unfolds as it does with both young lovers commiting suicide in the end.
Sorry. Has nothing to do with tractors but I assumed everyone would get the joke.
 
" So what should I do to correct this?"

Check the point gap & set the timing.

The front distributor was designed to come off of the tractor to replace/adjust the points. To do this, remove the wire on the coil, remove the coil bail, remove the distributor cap & take the two bolts off. The base of the distributor has an offset tang & can only go back one way unless you really force it on.

The first thing you need to check is bushing wear. If the shaft has any sideways movement AT ALL, the bushings must be replaced. (see below)

Next, look at how the points & condenser are set in the distributor before you start pulling it down! Turn the tang & observe how the points open & close. If this is your first time doing it, draw a sketch! Make sure you are using quality points. I use only Wells, Blue Streak or Echlin brand points (* see below). Be careful not to ground the tip of the condenser wire to the body of the distributor when you replace the points. Do not break the little copper strip that go to the points. (If you do, make another out of the old set of points). Also, make sure the condenser wire does not go through the same opening in the distributor as the coil pig tail. The condenser wire goes through the opening on the top right.

Look at the old points; are they burned, pitted or misaligned? Check the point gap, .015 on all four lobes. Make sure the blade is at a perfect right angle to the points. You want to feel just the slightest bit of drag when you pull the blade through the points. Set the points on the high side of the cam and ensure they align correctly. Make sure you have the star washers under the screws on the points. If you need to replace the 8-32 X .19 fillister head screws, ensure that the new screws do not interfere with the advance weights. Dress the points by running a piece of card stock or a brown paper bag through them. New points sometimes have an anti-corrosive dielectric coating on them & old points can corrode or pick up grease from a dirty feeler gauge or excessive cam lubricant. And, don’t forget to lube the rubbing block w/ cam lube; not Vaseline, not bearing grease, but cam lube (** see below).

If you are using quality points and cannot get the gap to open to .015, chances are you need to replace the bushings.

Now, set the timing. Get a meter or test light, a 21/64” drill bit (*** see below) & a metal straight edge. Put the distributor face down w/ the condenser on the left & the timing plate lock screw on the bottom. Look at the end of the shaft: it has a narrow side & a wide side. Make sure you can tell the difference. Now, place the drill bit in the bottom mounting hole (this will be your reference point for measuring). Next, place a straight edge on the wide side of the tang on the shaft as shown in fig. FO83 in the picture. Rotate the shaft CCW (as viewed from rotor side OR CW as viewed from back/tang side) until the straight edge is ¼" beyond the outside edge of the drill bit you stuck in the distributor mounting hole. At this distance, the distributor points should start to open (get your meter/light out now & check). If not, loosen the timing plate lock screw and turn to advance or retard the timing (move the plate down to advance timing, up to retard). Remember, each one of those little hash marks represents about 4° of timing. Keep adjusting until you get the proper ¼" setting. (if the plate won’t move, you might need to remove the big C clip to loosen it a bit) As you’re adjusting, eliminate backlash by turning the shaft backwards (CW as viewed from the front) and bring the shaft forward (CCW as viewed from the front) to measure your setting. This ¼" setting will get you static timing at top dead center.

As you can see from the picture, this particular distributor needed to have the timing advanced by about 8° (two hash marks) to achieve the ¼” measurement.

After you set the points & timing, do a continuity check before you put the distributor back on the tractor.

Before you start, make sure your meter/light works.

With the distributor still off the tractor, follow these steps:

1. Coil off, cap off, points open. One probe on the brass screw & the other on both sides of the open points. On the side closest to the cam, you should have continuity. Not on the other side! If you do, you will also have continuity everywhere because the points are grounded.

2. Coil off, cap off, points open. One probe on the brass screw & the other anywhere on the body of the distributor. You should have no continuity! Now, rotate the tang on the distributor....as the points open & close, you have continuity (closed) and lose it when they open.

3. Put the coil on the distributor, cap off, points open. One probe on the lead on the top of the coil, the other on the cam side of the open points. You should have continuity!

4. Coil on, cap off, points open. One probe on the lead on the top of the coil, the other anywhere on the body of the distributor. You should have no continuity!

At this point, I just put the distributor, coil & cap all back on the tractor as a unit. The reason I do this is because it is real easy to get the cap or coil misaligned trying to put it back together, one piece at a time. The result is something gets broken or you get a ‘no spark’ problem.

It's possible to put it back on wrong & break it. Look at the slot on the end of the cam shaft. Whatever angle it happens to be, turn the distributor tang to match it. Make sure you can tell the wide side from the narrow side on both the cam & distributor! (close counts). Place the distributor on the front of the engine, gently push it in place & slowly turn the distributor body until you feel the tang slip into the slot. Rotate the distributor body until the bolt holes line up. Hand tighten the two bolts until the distributor body is flush with the timing gear cover.

Double-check your firing order & plug wires. It’s 1-2-4-3, counterclockwise. It’s very easy to cross 3 & 4.

And finally, do not forget to remove the distributor on an annual basis (more often, depending on use) to check the point gap and re-lube the cam.

* NAPA part numbers:

• Points: FD-6769X
• Condenser: FD-71
• Rotor: FD-104
• Cap: FD-126


** Distributor cam lube:

http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/Result.aspx?Ntt=ECH+ML1&Ntk=Keyword&Nty=1&Dn=0&D=ECH+ML1&Dk=1&Dp=3&N=0

** Distributor cam lube

http://www.carquest.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/subcategory__10151_-1_10651_11340


*** Rather than the drill bit, a jig made by Dan Allen (The Old Hokie) will make this task quicker & more accurate.

http://windyridgefarm.us/ [email protected]

**** Unscrew the plate hold down screw & remove the C clip to get the plate out. Remove the shaft & weights. The weights should freely move.

There are three ways to replace the bushings in a front distributor:

1. Buy new bushings (part numbers 9N12120 front & 18-12132 rear). Press out the old ones, press in the new ones and ream to fit. CAUTION: do not try this unless you have a press & know how to use it. If you break the base, a new one costs $130. If you bend the tower which holds the front bushing, a new plate will cost you $30.

2. Take the new bushings and distributor to your local machine shop.

3. Send the distributor out for bushing replacement if you do not have a local machine shop.
IMG_20140212_144910_554_zps7098b9a8.jpg

IMG_20140212_144953_385_zpsd84210ac.jpg

75 Tips
 
So I finally got the old for running good. After thinking about it for a couple days
and talking to everyone on here and a local guy was going to help me set the
timing I decided to check the plug wires one more time. They are all in a tube and
kinda tough to really know what wire you have. Well I ended figuring it out and I
did in deed flip 3 and 4.
I thank everyone on here for all the help. All the great advice that was given to me
now will help me in the near feature when I do the annual maintence before
winter.
Thanks again all
 
(quoted from post at 19:47:56 06/04/15) So I finally got the old for running good. After thinking about it for a couple days
and talking to everyone on here and a local guy was going to help me set the
timing I decided to check the plug wires one more time. They are all in a tube and
kinda tough to really know what wire you have. Well I ended figuring it out and I
did in deed flip 3 and 4.
I thank everyone on here for all the help. All the great advice that was given to me
now will help me in the near feature when I do the annual maintence before
winter.
Thanks again all
b:82e71fa6dc][i:82e71fa6dc]

And thank you for posting the 'FIX'. That is exactly why I keep the pic. of the wiring to the dist. handy.....just for situations such as yours.
Got you to think about it, Glad ya carried through on it.!!!

Gary :wink: [/i:82e71fa6dc][/b:82e71fa6dc]
 

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