Early 8N Front Mount distributor static timing

I thought I had read the instructions for how to static time this distributor so many times that it would be a cinch. Not.

I started my evening last night with pressing in the new distributor housing and breaker plate bushings. Both went in fairly easy, but the top one (breaker plate, small bushing) was very tight to the distributor shaft. Tighter than I expected. But, with some oil and using a crescent wrench to turn the shaft via the shaft's two tangs, it did spin and did loosen up a bit. I suspect it will be OK after it runs for a bit.

Note that I'm pretty certain I did not deform the breaker plate when I pressed the bushing in, as to bend it out of alignment from the housing bushing. I inserted the shaft into the small bushing, and it was tight at that point. I actually had to press the shaft in - it was too tight a fit to manually press together. (I got the bushings from our host.)

Then, I installed the breaker plate/shaft assembly into the housing and the breaker plate retaining clip/wire. I rotated the shaft to cause a lobe to fully open the points and I set the point gap to .015". No big deal there.

Next - static timing. I scratched a fine line with an awl, 1/4" away from the proper bolt hole in the housing (the bolt hole closest to the bail wire). I then used my 6" steel rule, set next to the tangs on the wide side of the shaft, to eyeball-confirm it was aligned with my scratch.

However, here's where things didn't happen as expected. Rotating the breaker plate, I could not move the plate enough to actually open the points. I know the proper setting is "stop just as the points are starting to open", but I was expecting that point to be about mid-way in the CW / CCW rotation adjustment range of the breaker plate. With my plate all the way clockwise (maximum advanced position), the point's lobe follower is starting to ride the lobe's "ramp", but the points are still not opening. I was using an ohm meter to test for the points being closed or open, and they were always closed (no resistance).

It's quite a chore to keep the shaft from turning while adjusting the breaker plate. Since the upper (small) bushing was so tight, I think that compounded the issue.

Any tips for how to lock the shaft in the proper position while making this adjustment?

Another observation was that the rotor is pointing to #3 wire when setting the static timing, but perhaps that's just coincidence and doesn't make a difference. (I learned a long time ago that you can pretty much stick a car distributor in every which way but upside down, as long as when you were done, the #1 wire and the rotor line up and the #1 piston was TDC on the compression stroke.)

Thanks for any tips. Todd

(quoted from post at 09:45:13 05/12/15) I thought I had read the instructions for how to static time this distributor so many times that it would be a cinch. Not.

It's quite a chore to keep the shaft from turning while adjusting the breaker plate. Since the upper (small) bushing was so tight, I think that compounded the issue.

<snip>

Any tips for how to lock the shaft in the proper position while making this adjustment?

<snip>

Thanks for any tips. Todd

Click to expand...

These are quite popular ;-)

TOH

:lol:

Yeah, I've read some old hokie somewhere makes and sells them for a pittance. I suppose I'll break down and get one.

Seems this character doesn't want to be contacted. Private Messaging is turned off, no safe email option, personal website contact page still under construction…

What's a guy to do?

(quoted from post at 10:35:22 05/12/15) Seems this character doesn't want to be contacted. Private Messaging is turned off, no safe email option, personal website contact page still under construction…

What's a guy to do?

Click to expand...

My email is present in Modern view (safe email) and I've probably posted it explicitly here a few hundred times in plain view. You can call me if you wish.

[email protected]

TOH

301.655.0631

TOH's gig will save you a few grey hairs as well as keep the cussing at bay.

If you do a search you will find specs for the dist shaft and lobe measurements.It is crucial to make sure that you are at least within spec before you look at anything else. I replaced a bunch of those bushings. Yes some are tight. oil them up they will loosen.

Are you using good quality points?
I have many different types of points i.e Ac Delco's , Echlin, Blue Streak, Tisco and some others that I have been researching for a project I am doing. You will be amazed a the crap that is out there. Even the echlin and blue streak have been so out of alignment that would make your head spin.

Make sure that he rubbing block truly rides on the lobes as you completely spin the entire shaft 360 degree's. If it does not you will need to start closely looking at how every thing rides and fits concentrically starting from the shaft.

grey, the points are from my local tractor supply. Probably not top quality.

I tried to do an eyeball compare test, comparing my old points to my new points, and they looked to be a close match in regards to pivot axis and cam follower. (But, I also did this compare with my new points installed and fighting the flat springs on the old set of points.)

Todd

(quoted from post at 11:18:53 05/12/15) grey, the points are from my local tractor supply. Probably not top quality.

I tried to do an eyeball compare test, comparing my old points to my new points, and they looked to be a close match in regards to pivot axis and cam follower. (But, I also did this compare with my new points installed and fighting the flat springs on the old set of points.)

Todd

Click to expand...

did not see mention of it, but do you have wide side/narrow side proper?

(quoted from post at 10:32:11 05/12/15) I did not see mention of it, but do you have wide side/narrow side proper?

Click to expand...

Yep, I mentioned it.

Next - static timing. I scratched a fine line with an awl, 1/4" away from the proper bolt hole in the housing (the bolt hole closest to the bail wire). I then used my 6" steel rule, set next to the tangs on the wide side of the shaft, to eyeball-confirm it was aligned with my scratch.

Click to expand...

I've been searching for the distributor lobe specs - can't find them. I found a few posts in this forum (ref JMOR) who was discussing it, but didn't find any ranges of acceptable values.

Any hints? My lobes (lobe to opposite lobe, measured with a vernier caliper) are 0.865"

Todd

(quoted from post at 09:31:39 05/16/15) I've been searching for the distributor lobe specs - can't find them. I found a few posts in this forum (ref JMOR) who was discussing it, but didn't find any ranges of acceptable values.

Any hints? My lobes (lobe to opposite lobe, measured with a vernier caliper) are 0.865"

Todd

Click to expand...

.865 is a good number & across the flats = 0.787.

Folks always worry about wear here, but is is one of those "almost never" occurrences.

Thanks JMOR.

I got the shaft alignment tool in the mail from TOH. Nice fast shipping (thank you). Here's a picture of it installed:



I then set the (front mount) distributor in a vise and hooked up an ohm meter. I was unable to move the breaker plate to a position where the points were just starting to open. I took a video to illustrate.

http://youtu.be/tFBtsz_fAP8

This confirms the issue I was fighting before I got the alignment tool from TOH… the adjustment range of the breaker plate is insufficient.

My shaft bushings are new, and pretty tight. My point gap is pretty much dead on .015". .014" was loose, and .016" had a good drag. .015" has just a slight touch to the points.

What do you think? Get a new set of points? Rattail file adjustment hole in the side of the distributor wider?

Todd

(quoted from post at 11:59:24 05/16/15) Thanks JMOR.

I got the shaft alignment tool in the mail from TOH. Nice fast shipping (thank you). Here's a picture of it installed:

I then set the (front mount) distributor in a vise and hooked up an ohm meter. I was unable to move the breaker plate to a position where the points were just starting to open. I took a video to illustrate.

http://youtu.be/tFBtsz_fAP8

This confirms the issue I was fighting before I got the alignment tool from TOH… the adjustment range of the breaker plate is insufficient.

My shaft bushings are new, and pretty tight. My point gap is pretty much dead on .015". .014" was loose, and .016" had a good drag. .015" has just a slight touch to the points.

What do you think? Get a new set of points? Rattail file adjustment hole in the side of the distributor wider?

Todd

Click to expand...

ou could file and rotate further, but if too much then you will have problem at oil spring contact and concave screw. Cant say for sure from video but may be close enough to run fine. Since cam and shaft are not hard connected but rather via centrifugal advance mechanism you may want to inspect that adv assy. If those slots or pins are worn too much, then the cam will lag the shaft and in your video the cam is lagging where it needs to be inorder to obtain setting you desire

" Get a new set of points? "

Yes.

You've spent a lot of time & some money to get this far....you will be back in there soon if you don't put Bluestreak points in it.
75 Tips

(quoted from post at 11:59:24 05/16/15) Thanks JMOR.

I got the shaft alignment tool in the mail from TOH. Nice fast shipping (thank you). Here's a picture of it installed:

I then set the (front mount) distributor in a vise and hooked up an ohm meter. I was unable to move the breaker plate to a position where the points were just starting to open. I took a video to illustrate.

http://youtu.be/tFBtsz_fAP8

This confirms the issue I was fighting before I got the alignment tool from TOH… the adjustment range of the breaker plate is insufficient.

My shaft bushings are new, and pretty tight. My point gap is pretty much dead on .015". .014" was loose, and .016" had a good drag. .015" has just a slight touch to the points.

What do you think? Get a new set of points? Rattail file adjustment hole in the side of the distributor wider?

Todd

Click to expand...

Tburch. With the OHM meter setup and connected if you manually open the points with your finger do you lose continuity? You should, If you do at least that tells you you are not grounding else where on the plate.

As Bruce stated get some quality points. Me personally I would not use a rat tail file on the slot.

What do you think? Get a new set of points? Rattail file adjustment hole in the side of the distributor wider?

Todd

Click to expand...

Can you get us a pic of the other side ? maybe we can see something obvious .

I would not rat tail the slot as there is something wrong . It has been ten years since I a problem with the slot , but I think it was the block on a cheap set of points , I really don't remember .

Thanks for all the replies.

Manually opening the points with meter hooked up confirms an open in the circuit. All is well electrically.

I got new Echlin points, installed them, and have the same condition. A closer inspection of the two tangs at the bottom of the distributor shaft shows a good amount of face wear where the tangs ride the cam gear. Probably enough to throw slop into the adjustment process.

I ended up setting the distributor to the maximum advanced setting (where the points were closest to opening) and completed assembly of the new cap, new rotor, new 6V coil, new plug wires and new ballast resistor.

<rant - the distributor gasket kit I got from YT sucks. The housing to block gasket was fine, the internal (under rotor) gasket was perfect, but the cap to housing cork gasket was a good 3/16" too long. I ended up cutting that much out of the circumference. The coil gasket was completely unusable - WAY too large. It literally hung out the front. I reinstalled my old one. /rant>

I put the distributor/coil and the hood back on and checked fuel flow. Nada. I used compressed air to blow back up into the tank after removing the sediment bowl and screen, and fuel started flowing good, albeit cloudy. I had previously removed the shutoff valve assembly and dental-picked it to open the completely clogged passages. Now I have good flow of (presumedly) bad gas. I had added about 1-1.5 gallons of gas to whatever was already in the tank a few weeks ago - I was anxious to crank her.

I tried starting. She fired, but no start. I could only get her to fire by spraying starting fluid into the carb intake. The longest run I got was about 4-5 seconds.

I need to drain the tank and get some fresh gas in it. I feel my compression improved a bit throughout my starting attempts. I could actually hear the struggle of the starter overcoming the compression, and after letting go of the starter button, could hear the compression bleed off. Good signs, I suppose.

Todd

need one if you will my good sir. 9N starting hard. Will start and runs good when started but HARD to start. Was hoping fine tune point set with your tool may be answer before I burn up old starter. Help if you would, please. Let me know if you still making and selling them and how much you want to save my old friend. '39 mod 9N ser. no# 666. Had a rough life already and trying to ease her "Golden Years" a touch. Thanks for your time and hope to hear from you. K.C. Collins/Ball,Louisiana.

P.S. She's a fine hard working ol' girl and didn't eat my children or demand souls nor nuthing; just got a bad serial number rap at the onset, but she's really a sweetheart. You won't be selling your soul to help her out none,Promise!

Think i'll make me one of those jigs outta some 1/4" Aluminum I have

I found the same thing, the gaskets just suck, no other way to say it. I ended up using the old gaskets too, on my 9N. It never had the internal gaskets in the distributor anyway and did fine all its life. Just wasted some money on the gasket set.

(quoted from post at 22:01:58 02/27/18) need one if you will my good sir. 9N starting hard. Will start and runs good when started but HARD to start. Was hoping fine tune point set with your tool may be answer before I burn up old starter. Help if you would, please. Let me know if you still making and selling them and how much you want to save my old friend. '39 mod 9N ser. no# 666. Had a rough life already and trying to ease her "Golden Years" a touch. Thanks for your time and hope to hear from you. K.C. Collins/Ball,Louisiana.

P.S. She's a fine hard working ol' girl and didn't eat my children or demand souls nor nuthing; just got a bad serial number rap at the onset, but she's really a sweetheart. You won't be selling your soul to help her out none,Promise!

Click to expand...

I have been sold out for a couple months and finally have more ordered. I expect to have them in about a week. I won't have a current price until after I get the bill from the laser cutter :roll:

TOH

" I expect to have them in about a week."
Please let us know when and the price.
Thanks,