Time to bite the bullet: Hydraulic repairs

CameronP

Member
With the snowplowing done for the year and grass cutting is still weeks away, I figured now is the perfect time to tackle the hydraulic repairs I've been putting off.

I haven't taken the inspection port off and started poking around yet, I'll do that before I start ordering parts. For now, these are the symptoms:

Leak down. The lift will hold an empty carry-all up for less than 5 minutes. A really heavy implement like my snowplow or brush hog, the lift will drop several inches when I push the clutch in. I will be replacing the piston and seals and honing and/or replacing the lift cylinder. On a related note, the lift seams to have gotten weaker over the last two years, which I am hoping is the result of the fairly serious leakdown.

The other symptom; sometimes the lift sticks up. A thorough cleaning and possibly a new return spring on the intake valve look to be in order.

Opinions seems split on draining the fluid, filling it back up with kerosene and running the lift for a few minutes to clean out the hydraulic pump. Seems like a bad idea, but what do I know.

Should I drop the pump? Or can clean the sump well enough with the pump in place? More importantly, can I replace the return spring without dropping the pump? I'll be pulling the pto shaft anyway to replace a leaky pto seal.
 
I can only share when mine was dropping like yours I had to pull pump due to a blown gasket between valve chamber and body.
 
Don't forget to do your diagnosis work before you remove the pump. You may have no choice but to drop it if you have problems other than the piston ring leaking.
 
If the arms drop w/ the tractor off or the clutch depressed, chances are you have a worn lift cylinder or piston (or both), a blown top cover gasket or a leaky pressure relief valve. Take the inspection plate w/ the dipstick off. Lift a heavy implement & look inside w/ the tractor running & the PTO engaged to see if you notice oil running from the top cover. If oil is running steadily from the top cover the chances are the lift cylinder needs to be rebuilt. It’s less likely, but a possibility, that the top cover gasket is bad. (It’s very difficult to detect the exact source of the oil leaking inside of the top cover while looking through the inspection port). If no oil is running down from the top cover, look at the rear of the pump in the oil with the load still on it and see if you notice turbulence in the bottom. (Some movement of oil will be normal with the PTO shaft turning). You could have a weak pressure relief valve which will be detected by turbulence in the oil. To check for a slow leak, lift a heavy implement, turn the tractor off & put a ½ inch clear plastic hose on the end of the valve & stick the other end of the hose through the inspection port. With pressure in the pump, a bad valve will likely show some fluid in the hose.

Before you start the repair, it would be a wise move to get a jig from Zane Sherman to adjust the internal linkage. And, make a couple of “guide studs” by cutting the heads off of two 7/16-14 x 3 5/8” bolts. Also, if your lift cylinder rebuild kit has the leather washer, get CNH part number 87051231 which is the neoprene washer for the lift piston instead of the leather one.

The lift cover weighs nearly 100 lbs with the upper lift arms attached, & is very hard to maneuver. An engine hoist is an excellent idea. Remove the seat and spring, disconnect the upper lift arms at the knuckles. Remove the 14 bolts that hold the cover to the housing. (note that there are three different lengths) DO NOT remove the four nuts under the seat! Remove the right side inspection cover so you can remove the control rod tip from the pump intake valve. Lift the back of the cover straight up and slide a piece of wood under the cover to keep the tip of the control rod out of the rocker shaft. Once you are sure the control rod is out of the rocker shaft, you can then remove the cover. Turn the cover upside down, remove the four bolts that hold the cylinder to the cover, & use a little compressed air on the cylinder to remove the piston. Check the cylinder for excessive scratches, hone if necessary. Install a new piston with "0" ring and backing washer in the cylinder. Install the CNH neoprene washer w/ the concave side toward the “O” ring. At this point, check the cam follower pin & the control rod. If the cam follower pin is worn replace it. Then, if you have a jig, adjust the linkage to specs. The ‘shade tree’ adjustment was to bend the control arm to compensate for normal wear in the linkage, springs & cam follower pin. If the control rod is bent, remove it & straighten it. (very carefully; they break easily!) Replace the gaskets under the cylinder and bolt it back on the cover. Put the gasket on the tractor (no sealer) and put the gude studs in place. Unless you do this every day or have eyeballs in your finger tips, get some help to guide the tip of the control arm back into the rocker shaft. (this is the point you will wish you had a engine hoist to hold the top cover while the control rod dances around the intake valve arm on the pump!) Align the cover holes up with the housing holes. Remove the guide studs. Tighten cover bolts, connect lift arms install the seat. Re-install the inspection covers with new gaskets.

For info on changing the hydraulic fluid, check out tips 3 & 4 at the link below.
There are two ways to clean the pump; the “quick clean” that gets a lot of the sludge out of it, & the right way that gets all of it, including the hard packed crud in the pump base.

For the quick clean, after you get the old fluid drained out (overnight is best) remove both inspection plates & start pulling the sludge in the pump base out by hand. Then, get a couple of gallons of kerosene or diesel fuel & pour it into the pump base. Catch it in a bucket & reuse it. (Some folks use a hand garden sprayer.) Flush the pump base out 5 or 6 times. Do not start the engine to run the kerosene through the pump; kerosene and diesel fuel do not have sufficient lubrication properties for a 60 year old hydraulic pump designed to be immersed in 90w gear oil. Some folks say it’s ok to start the engine, engage the pump for a minute or two, then turn the engine off. Your call on that one.

This 'quick-clean' is not as effective as dropping the pump & doing a full job. But if the choice is between doing nothing & the quick clean, spray it out. It worked for me for 3 years on my 1951 N. If you have the time, drop the pump; that is the right way to do it. I’ve done it both ways & don’t plan on doing the quick clean again. That’s because dropping the pump is not a big deal. If you have hard packed crud in the pump base, you are wasting your time w/ the "quick clean".

With all of the fluid drained out, block the front wheels & get the rear wheels up at least a foot. (you'll see why soon enough) Remove the 4 bolts holding the PTO shaft in & pull it to the rear & out of the tractor. Loosen all of the bolts. Remove all but 2 corner bolts. Then, carefully remove them. If you are lucky, the pump will drop free (and dump a pint or so of hydraulic fluid down your sleeves). If not, wrestle it free. The pump has 'ears' that fit into the housing; wiggle it a bit & it will drop free. If you have the rear tires a foot or more off of the ground, you will have enough arm room to hold the pump & lower it at the same time. Put it on your work bench & remove the safety valve (p/n 638) and the control arm lever (p/n 643) which will allow you to remove the intake & exhaust valves (p/n’s 640 & 698) Drop all of it in a bucket of diesel (or mineral spirits) or your parts washer & let it soak overnight. Once it has a good soaking, get it on the bench & start blowing it out w/ compressed air. Run cleaning fluid into the hydraulic discharge near the test port & make sure you get a good flow out the small hole in the side of the pump were the control valve fits. I don't see much need to pull it down any further just to clean it. But, I always replace the safety valve (p/n 638, about $25) Reinstalling the pump is harder than pulling it out because you have a gasket to worry about. (no sealer on the gasket) And, you will probably need a helper to guide the control rod into the pump rocker shaft unless you’ve done this 6 or 7 times before!

While you have the PTO shaft out, it would be a good time to replace the seal on it. It's got two spring clamps around it. Take your needle nose pliers & remove the one in the front. Then, hang the shaft & bearing housing in your vice & tap the butt end of the shaft; the bearing cap will come off (and the shaft will land on your foot). Then, remove the other spring clip from the other side of the bearing. At this point, remember that you never bought a seal driver & go get a BF socket & drive the seal out. If you have the new style seal, the white side goes out. (open side to the oil) Put some grease on it.

Contrary to conventional wisdom, not a lot of water gets in the oil from the shifter boot. Of course, if it's bad, replace it, but you get water from the draft control spring & the dipstick. But, most water is just a byproduct of the heating/cooling cycle of the oil.

You’ll need a pump gasket, safety valve, inspection plate gasket(s), PTO seal, PTO gasket, gasket sealer & 5 gallons of fluid to do all of the above.
75 Tips
 
On the guide studs , cut a slot after cutting off the head , with a hack saw or .045 grinding wheel so a screw driver can be used if necessary for removal .

These guide studs can be used in other procedures on your N tractor . I usually use four , one at each corner to keep the gasket from slipping out of place .
 
Do not run that lift with kerosene in it!

Dirty oil is better lubricant than kerosene and could damage pump parts.

Replace the relief valve while you are in there. Ok to flush the bottom of the pump housing with lots of kerosene or diesel before refilling with new
oil.

Zane
 
I'm looking around in there now and didn't find the smoking gun I was hoping for. I have a carryall with ~100lbs in it (200 total) on the lift. When I raise it all the way up, I only see a slight drip coming from the top. I guess I was expecting a more vigorous leak, but maybe it's because I have my lightest implement on there.

Is this leak enough to condemn the lift cylinder and piston?
 
When my Dad's 2N was dropping fast when you stepped on the clutch, it was a bad safety
valve..I'd check it before starting to pull cylinder and pump. His was leaking so fast u
could lift the load-kill the engine-reach in fast and feel the end of the PR valve and it
would push your finger off - could feel it leaking.
 
Don't waist your time and money on the so called Quick clean its been proven it cleans nutiin... Its nuttin more than a wallet flush...

Its obvious by your symptoms the pump needs to come out completely, dissembled and cleaned... The lift cylinder needs attention also.... Do it one time and do it correctly...

After about 60 years this type of issue catch's up with ya its time to pull the pump and lift cover...
 
After what I saw in mine when I dropped the pump I would definitely drop the pump and clean it well. I did as Bruce suggested and would do it again.
 
Thanks for the advice. I'm going to go with the full clean and replace the pressure release valve, cylinder, piston and anything else that is worn while I'm in there.

I'll post back if I get in over my head
 

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