1950 8n 6 volt starter problem, need advice.

My 8n has been starting and running great. It has been over a year now after I tuned up the ignition and replaced the coil. Used it to snow plow our road down to the state highway several times over the hard winter we had in the Ozarks.

But when I tried to get it started in the shed to service it for garden work last week it refused to go. The starter just clicked. I put the 6 volt charger on it over night thinking maybe the battery (new last fall) might need a charge after sitting. I had noticed it has become increasingly difficult to get the starter to engage. It takes a lot of tries pressing on the starter switch to get it to engage enough to start. But this time nothing.
Charging the battery was no help. I jumped the starter switch and the solenoid made the starter click but it doesn’t turn the engine. A neighbor (8n owner) said the starter seemed stuck.
I took the starter off and cleaned it up inside and out. But I do not know how to tell if it was stuck. I could bench test it with jumpers but not sure how to accomplish that. How do you hold it together not mounted on the engine. I could put it in a vise. Before I mess something up I decided I would ask the forum. I sure got good advice last year trouble shooting the ignition and coil. I would appreciate guidance on my starter problem.
Thanks James,
jmczzz

Might have been stuck in the flywheel ring gear and popped loose when you started taking it
off. Put nuts on the starter mounting bolts to hold it together..

2 simple 5/16 nuts will hold it together for you to test it. Hook one jumper to the case and the other to the stud and hold it tight and touch them to a battery. But all that will do is test to see if it spins up but will not load test it. Bad winter in the Ozarks where are you was not at all bad here at the Lake of the Ozarks

(quoted from post at 23:38:15 04/18/15) Might have been stuck in the flywheel ring gear and popped loose when you started taking it
off. Put nuts on the starter mounting bolts to hold it together..

Click to expand...

That sure makes sense. Sometimes the obvious is the hardest to see. I'll try to find some to fit, or may have to wait till Mon and go to town. What would make it stick? I did get some sticky crud out of it. The slide gear doesn’t travel more than an inch or so but does catch firmly on the teeth. Does that sound normal? I also noticed one of the big wires of the many that go to the armature windings has come disconnected from the race where the brushes make contact. Those seem to be brazed or welded on there. Could that be a problem? Could I just clamp it down making contact and put some jb weld on it to hold it?
Thank you for the quick response. James

Hi, I will do that. (5/16 nuts) see my other response. Again too obvious.
I am in Newton County AR. about 25 miles from MO, south of Bull Shoals res.
We got snow, ice and frozen rain more times than normal it seemed to us. We kept hearing "Polar vortex" what ever that is.
Please read my other questions in my other reply.
Thank you also for your response.
James

Mine stuck 0ccasionally when I got it in 04--ring gear was chewed up causing the problem. I
replaced the ring gear-hasn't stuck since..On the inside of the starter, I do not
know..someone else will come along with the answer to that question..Also I changed to the
new style bendix--I do recommend doing that too.

So is your 8N the early 1950 and front mount distributor or a late 1950 with side mount distributor. I have a late 1950 8N with loader and back hoe so I do not run it much but sure is handy when I need a back hoe

Side mount distributor. Sure wish I had a back hoe on mine with all the rocks here.
James

James.......what part of "disconnected from brushes" don't you understand??? And NO that is NOT JB Weld repairable. Byte the bullett and trade yer BAD starter motor fer NEW rebuilt on with modern "clutch" style Bendix. As a general comment on starter Bendix's, they must be SQUEAKY CLEAN. Spray with evaporative BRAKE cleaner and letter drip dry. ........the amazed Dell

Well I have named my 1950 late 8N the nerd. You can not drive it in 4th gear because the front wheels are off the ground more then on. Plus if going back wards your better off pulling your self with the back hoe then using reverse since you can not back up any hill

Mr. Dell,
I did not say "disconnected from brushes” those are your words. I said one of the many armature winding wires has come disconnected from the race the brushes contact. It appears to have been repaired before by braze or weld. I can tig weld it back to its contact point or try to establish a firm electrical connection that is held in place by a JB weld type epoxy. I would like to try a self repair if at all possible before spending over $100. I do not subscribe to the “throw it away and just get a new one” philosophy of modern consumerism society. That seems out of place on a forum that supports discussion, service and use of equipment that is 50+ years old.
Thank you for your input.
James
*
Mr. Old,
Thanks for the picture. After seeing that I am glad I do not have such an alien looking contraption to contend with. My straight forward plain Jane of a tractor is complicated enough for me.
The thump drag bucket walk backwards up hill doesn't seem like one of the design objectives of the 40s and 50s Ford tractor engineers. But more like an animated Saturday morning TV cartoon. lol
Thank you for sharing your comedic vision.
Regards, James

No one has suggested the possibility of repair of my tractors starter, except Dell's comment of cleaning of the Bendix. And the non reparability of one disconnected armature wire.
Surly I am not on new ground with wanting to "fix it not replace it".
I would like to learn more about the "modern Bendix" Mr. Dell refers to? How is it different? Mr. Dell can you fill me in? And should I lubricate the Bendix after cleaning?
Thanks, James

Years ago I did get that thing stuck real good. Had both front and rear down to the axles but used the back hoe to get out. Turned the whole unit 180 with the back hoe then pulled it out by hooking a chain to the back hoe bucket and to a tree and drug it out. Only took a few hours to do. As for rebuilding the start your self many need the brushes solder in and most people do not have the equipment to get that job done since you need a very big soldering iron to do it. Plus you need to be able to check out things wit ha meter to make sure all if right

I have been trying to put the starter back together using the 5/16 nuts. But mercy I cannot get all those brushes in place at the same time. Is solder the way thay is done?
To bad you didn't make a video of that experience with the tree, chain and back hoe. It would have been a hit on utube.
Must have been quite a show!

Pull the brushes up so that the spring that holds them down is hitting them on the side then you can slide the armature in. Then one at a time you push the brushes down so the spring pushes them down. As for the back hoe thing I did that back 20 plus years ago and U-Tube was not even around back then

(reply to post at 00:52:42 04/20/15)

Click to expand...

thank you for the info on the brushes. I'll try that.
Well, as far as utube. I was just talkiing, I know nothing about it except there is a lot of junk on there so I'm told.
James

Clicking starter sounds like solenoid. But you jumped that and it did not help.

Connections were cleaned as you say, that is probably then not the problem.

That brings up battery as a likely culprit. How old is it? Sometimes they test OK but are really not.

The starter wire problem seems like a real problem. Probably went south.

If the starter has not just gone south then I would think battery. If the loose wire thing is new I would think starter.

If your battery is old and needs replacing then do that first. Gotta have a good battery. Then if you still have a problem, rebuild or replace the starter.

thanks, I can see the armature wire has been fixed or attempted to be fixed before by some sort of weld or solder.
I think I'll try to weld it with just a slight touch. Got nothing to lose at this point.
I think the battery is about a year old. seems like I buy a new one every year. Guess I should keep a record but, I think I did write it down somewhere or have a reciept in tax records.
James