Wheels and PTO not working.

rightofcenter77 · Mar 21, 2015

About 2 weeks ago, I was driving the tractor and I heard a "thunk" and the tractor stopped moving. I ended up splitting the tractor, draining out a ton of hydraulic fluid that had accumulated in the clutch housing, replaced the input shaft seal and clutch. I added hydraulic fluid after putting it back together. It seems like a successful repair. I drove the tractor around a little bit, and then I heard that same noise which I can only describe as a "thunk." I'm not sure it would have been audible to anybody but me. The engine kept running but the tractor stopped moving and the PTO will no longer engage.

I took the transmission housing cover off, started the engine, and saw the drive shaft start to turn, but then stop. It also appears some of the hydraulic fluid is gone. I'm stumped. I can't imagine the clutch is failing to engage with the flywheel, since the clutch is new and I doubt enough fluid could have possibly leaked in there to cause a problem. And it's even stranger that the tractor worked for a short period.

Also - and I'm not sure if this is related - the shifter does not seem to want to hold in first or third position. It bounces right back into neutral when I push it into 1st or 3d. In the very short spin I took the tractor, I was unable to use first or third.

I'd appreciate any thoughts.

Sean

Ultradog MN · Mar 21, 2015

Edit: I thought I was on TractorTalk board

JMOR · Mar 21, 2015

Well, this is on the "N" forum, but you don't see the drive shaft by removing the transmission cover on an "N", so what are we speaking of here?

"I took the transmission housing cover off, started the engine, and saw the drive shaft start to turn..."

rightofcenter77 · Mar 21, 2015

(quoted from post at 17:29:27 03/21/15) Well, this is on the "N" forum, but you don't see the drive shaft by removing the transmission cover on an "N", so what are we speaking of here?

"I took the transmission housing cover off, started the engine, and saw the drive shaft start to turn..."

I suppose it would be the input shaft.

Paul in MN · Mar 21, 2015

Does this tractor have a Sherman tranny ahead of the main tranny? When you did the split, you would be able to see the Sherman. If it does have the additional tranny, it may have just slipped out of gear and been "close" to neutral. On my 8N with the cable operated Sherman, it was frequently slipping out of gear, so I cut a small length of 3/8" pipe and unscrewed the pull knob, slipped the pipe bushing on then screwed the knob back on and it does not jump out of normal speed range any more. Of course this "poor Man's" fix eliminates the possibility of using the high speed range gears in the Sherman... but I never used them anyway.

The other possibility I can think of is your main tranny is slipping out of gear, maybe a bad bearing or badly worn input shaft. But if the PTO is not turning, the problem is most likely forward of the main tranny. I have seen the center splined hub of the clutch disc plate having been sheared from the clutch plate, and that would cause failure of motion and PTO. But you just replaced the clutch plate, I think... so that should not be the problem.

Tell us more as you find further symptoms.

Paul in MN

rightofcenter77 · Mar 22, 2015

No Sherman unless I'm a complete idiot. The input shaft runs right into the tranny. The gears in the tranny start to rotate for one or two seconds then they stop.

Also on the split, I noticed a bolt above the input shaft. Any thoughts?

Sean

[/img]

JMOR · Mar 22, 2015

(quoted from post at 09:15:10 03/22/15)
No Sherman unless I'm a complete idiot. The input shaft runs right into the tranny. The gears in the tranny start to rotate for one or two seconds then they stop.

Also on the split, I noticed a bolt above the input shaft. Any thoughts?

Sean

[/img]

areful what you say! That "bolt" is the shifter input to your auxiliary (probably Sherman) transmission.

rightofcenter77 · Mar 22, 2015

Ok - maybe that has something to do with it. I'm not sure what to do next though.

JMOR · Mar 22, 2015

(quoted from post at 14:22:14 03/22/15) Ok - maybe that has something to do with it. I'm not sure what to do next though.

f it were me.................I would try moving that"bolt" fore & aft to see if I could shift it into one gear or another where I might get a positive drive.

Paul in MN · Mar 23, 2015

I don't think I have any pictures of a split with the Sherman, but maybe John's website does. I think there is something missing on the front of this auxiliary tranny. Looking at that front bearing, I can see why oil is being slung out. The nose "cone" that holds the front seal is missing, but maybe it was removed by this owner in order to replace the front seal. This is not a sealed bearing, so oil goes right through it. The inside of the bell housing looks like a lot of oil has been flung. If there is not a simple fix to the "neutral" problem, I would consider getting rid of this Sherman and installing a "new" main tranny input shaft. Used ones should be readily available.

Paul in MN

rightofcenter77 · Mar 23, 2015

(quoted from post at 17:55:50 03/23/15) I don't think I have any pictures of a split with the Sherman, but maybe John's website does. I think there is something missing on the front of this auxiliary tranny. Looking at that front bearing, I can see why oil is being slung out. The nose "cone" that holds the front seal is missing, but maybe it was removed by this owner in order to replace the front seal. This is not a sealed bearing, so oil goes right through it. The inside of the bell housing looks like a lot of oil has been flung. If there is not a simple fix to the "neutral" problem, I would consider getting rid of this Sherman and installing a "new" main tranny input shaft. Used ones should be readily available.

Paul in MN

Thanks, all. Yes - after reading the comments here, I'm convinced there is at least some remnant of an auxiliary transmission that is causing problems.

I plan to re-split.

Sean

rightofcenter77 · Mar 24, 2015

(quoted from post at 18:00:17 03/23/15)

(quoted from post at 17:55:50 03/23/15) I don't think I have any pictures of a split with the Sherman, but maybe John's website does. I think there is something missing on the front of this auxiliary tranny. Looking at that front bearing, I can see why oil is being slung out. The nose "cone" that holds the front seal is missing, but maybe it was removed by this owner in order to replace the front seal. This is not a sealed bearing, so oil goes right through it. The inside of the bell housing looks like a lot of oil has been flung. If there is not a simple fix to the "neutral" problem, I would consider getting rid of this Sherman and installing a "new" main tranny input shaft. Used ones should be readily available.

Thanks, all. Yes - after reading the comments here, I'm convinced there is at least some remnant of an auxiliary transmission that is causing problems.

I plan to re-split.

Sean

Click to expand...

The tractor is moving again! It was the "bolt" which was apparently rigged to hold the auxiliary transmission in gear. The rig obviously failed.

If anyone can tell me what kind of transmission this is, I'd be greatful. I'd like to order the parts to fix it so it doesn't have to be rigged anymore.

Sean

Tiger Joe · Mar 24, 2015

its pretty hard to tell by the pic, but it looks like a Sherman Step up. could have been an early cable operated one and the cable broke

Is there any hole anywhere in the sides of the transmission case? an un used hole could be a good indicator of what type of transmission that is.

it was mentioned before but that bearing should not be exposed like it is, it needs to be sealed, which explains why you are losing all the hydraulic fluid.

rightofcenter77 · Mar 24, 2015

Yip. There is a hole plugged with a bolt right under the air cleaner.

Tiger Joe · Mar 25, 2015

(quoted from post at 15:22:45 03/24/15)
Yip. There is a hole plugged with a bolt right under the air cleaner.

Air cleaner side, hmm, I THINK that was the Sherman step up with the cable. the cables were known to break and the design was changed to utilize a handle. the step up handle comes out on the opposite side directly behind the starter.

Smiths site has all the info about the different models of aux. trans: (if the link works)

http://www.oldfordtractors.com/sherman.htm

I would not be operating the tractor without an input shaft. As was already said that bearing is not sealed, so all your fluid is going to leak past it.

You two options would be
1- find a Sherman step up input shaft. you could then convert the Sherman to the more common handle style shifter (red rock mfg mades a kit) or find a standard input shaft and eliminate the Sherman.

Wheels and PTO not working.

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