Shorted my Stater??

I goofed!

With a faulty starter button, I had proven the connecting rod between starter button on my '46 2N was worn by touching the negative side of battery directly to starter, resulting in the engine happily cranking right up.

2 weeks later, I was in a rush, and wasn't thinking, and used my default logic (Negative Ground for all other vehicles).. touched the positive to the starter and just made a lot of sparks. Somehow i did not kill my battery before I figured out my mistake.... Okay.. so did I completely burn out my starter?

Can it be rebuilt by me, or is it a total loss? (in other words, which part became the fuse???)
 

So did you in fact fry it? Have you tried starting the tractor, the correct way?

Pull the starter off the tractor. Can you manually spin the armature?

If you take the end cap off (if it hasn't already fallen off when you removed the starter) and have a look at the brushes and brush wires, how do they look? How does the stator look

If you put everything back together and quick run 6 or 12 volts to it while sitting on the bench does it spin.

Starters can be rebuilt at home but they are one of those things better left for a rebuild shop as they have the correct test tools. [/url]
 

I've tried to start it again by jumping it (using negative wire off of battery). I have to fix my connecting rod from starter button to starter switch.

I'll pull it off and open it up. Just wanted to understand if I simply have to drop the $130 for a rebuilt one or not. Windings can be shorted on motors by overheating, so obviously I can't fix that if THAT is the failure mode of shorting it.
 

I've tried to start it again by jumping it (using negative wire off of battery).
And what happened?

Just wanted to understand if I simply have to drop the $130 for a rebuilt one or not.
Hard to tell. depends what you find when you open it. Taking it to someone will incur troubleshooting costs whether you have it fixed or not.

I prefer OEM parts and not remanufactured parts. There are working originals that can be found.
 
Not real likely to have hurt the starter. Now a battery cable yes you may have fried one of them or caused a bad connection. The big thing is what happened when you tried it the right way?????/
 

The "Right Way" involves using the starter button and connecting/plunger rod to the starter switch. This doesn't work which is why I 'hotwired' it in the first place (again, to establish that plunger/connecting rod was worn).


So.. what other method do you suggest when you say "Right way"?
 
I'm not following exactly what you did?

What bat cable did you touch where?

If anything sounds like you may have shorted the battery.. may
have an unhappy cable or terminal end.

Unclear as to how the starter was in circuit. After all starter is
mounted. Ground plane, which is tied to positive of battery.
Simply hitting ground tied post of batter to starter lug should do
nothing at all. Or did you hit plus of batter to the hot side of the
start switch, in effect heating some cables and ends... etc?
 
(quoted from post at 20:50:57 01/29/15)
I've tried to start it again by jumping it (using negative wire off of battery).
And what happened?

nothing but sparks at the starter terminal.


Just wanted to understand if I simply have to drop the $130 for a rebuilt one or not.
Hard to tell. depends what you find when you open it. Taking it to someone will incur troubleshooting costs whether you have it fixed or not.


I prefer OEM parts and not remanufactured parts. There are working originals that can be found.

I'm assuming that because of the positive ground, that many people have made a similar mistake. I need to pull a schematic to see where all that current flowed. My recollection of how DC motors work though, says it all went through the windings...
 
(quoted from post at 21:02:04 01/29/15) I'm not following exactly what you did?

I took a spare battery cable, and touched the positive terminal on the battery to the starter's power terminal. If I understand it correctly, the "Positive Ground" means that when you hit the switch on a system working correctly, it connects Negative Battery Terminal to the Starter's Power Terminal.

What bat cable did you touch where?

If anything sounds like you may have shorted the battery.. may
have an unhappy cable or terminal end.

Unclear as to how the starter was in circuit. After all starter is
mounted. Ground plane, which is tied to positive of battery.
Simply hitting ground tied post of batter to starter lug should do
nothing at all. Or did you hit plus of batter to the hot side of the
start switch, in effect heating some cables and ends... etc?
 
(quoted from post at 16:03:55 01/29/15)
(quoted from post at 20:50:57 01/29/15)
I've tried to start it again by jumping it (using negative wire off of battery).
And what happened?

nothing but sparks at the starter terminal.


Just wanted to understand if I simply have to drop the $130 for a rebuilt one or not.
Hard to tell. depends what you find when you open it. Taking it to someone will incur troubleshooting costs whether you have it fixed or not.


I prefer OEM parts and not remanufactured parts. There are working originals that can be found.

I'm assuming that because of the positive ground, that many people have made a similar mistake. I need to pull a schematic to see where all that current flowed. My recollection of how DC motors work though, says it all went through the windings...
doubt that you did what you think that you did. Why? Because if you jumpered Positive to the starter motor, that would have been Positive battery to Positive battery, with path thru cables & starter & the result would have been no current, no voltage & no sparks! You may have hit the other start switch post which would have been simply shorting across the battery. Probably no harm. Verify all connections & cables & cable terminations. Almost certainly no starter damage.
 
When I said the right way I was saying when you hot wired it as you should have instead of back words. Of course you can also short out the back side of the starter button and then not even use a hot wire just use a heavy screw drive or some such thing. So again I ask what happens when you hot wire the correct way as in ground and hot??????
 
(quoted from post at 21:16:36 01/29/15) When I said the right way I was saying when you hot wired it as you should have instead of back words. Of course you can also short out the back side of the starter button and then not even use a hot wire just use a heavy screw drive or some such thing. So again I ask what happens when you hot wire the correct way as in ground and hot??????

I'll have to try it out. Will let you know.

Thanks
 
(quoted from post at 16:19:56 01/29/15)
(quoted from post at 21:16:36 01/29/15) When I said the right way I was saying when you hot wired it as you should have instead of back words. Of course you can also short out the back side of the starter button and then not even use a hot wire just use a heavy screw drive or some such thing. So again I ask what happens when you hot wire the correct way as in ground and hot??????

I'll have to try it out. Will let you know.

Thanks

As old and others have said did you hotwire it correctly? Forget going through the starter switch.
Also I'm wondering are the Sparks that you sore caused from a short in other words connecting positive and negative wires together or are the manure box from the excessive amount of current flow when you just temporarily touch the wire to the starter

Damn voice recognition stinks
 
15651.jpg


I've successfully hotwired it on the first go' round, then failed on the second and third.

I'll check battery voltage and verify first.

I'll check continuity of all related wires.

I'll take screwdriver and see if I can get the starter to kick.
Otherwise it's coming out and getting ripped down.
 

I still can't think of a way the starter could be damaged from a short!

Its made to conduct from stud to frame as normal operation, anything else, like barrel to frame would literally be a short, and the important bits would be out of circuit.

Look over what you did and post back clarifying details. Im not seeing a way to have electrically damaged the starter yet...
 
I agree with SG here. There is no way I can imagine that you can damage the starter by "connecting it incorrectly". It could care less about polarity. I will spin correctly wired either positive or negative ground. I'm also not sure exactly what you did to get the sparks. If you had the negative side of the battery grounded and touched the wire connected to the positive post directly to the starter stud it should have spun just fine but with quite a spark show due to the amount of current being drawn by the starter. Same would go if it were wired for positive ground. If you are just getting lots of sparks when you "hotwire" it then explain what you are doing to hotwire it.
 
Before you pull the starter motor and take it
apart, see what happens when you jump the starter.
MAKE SURE TRACTOR IS IN NEUTRAL. Use any battery,
six or 12 volt. Hook either cable to the hot lug
on top of the starter. Then ground the other lead
to a convenient place on the tractor. Foot peg
works well. Report back the results.
 
(reply to post at 19:32:17 01/29/15)

Well, the "Good News" is that I got it to kick last night. I laid a screwdriver across the starter switch terminals. I was not instantaneous however. I took several seconds after I completed the circuit for the starter to turn, and when it did, it was quite slow. This "success" was only AFTER I found the cracked insulation where the primary power to starter cable was touching a bolt. Cable looks original and very may well be 1946 vintage. I taped in and put a protective sleeve on it.

So with sluggish starter, are the brushes the next likely candidate? I understand a new set are only about $15. I will still need to pull apart the starter button, switch and pushrod to figure out which of the three is causing a problem (assuming the sluggish starter is not).

BTW.. battery is at 6.5VDC at rest, and was new last year.

Even when I first put in the new battery, the starter was pretty sluggish. What else might cause this?
15675.jpg
 

Clean the connections all around, including ground, and volt test that battery during starting. You still might have insufficient conduction
 

I think I'll spend the 1/2 hour that will take Sunday morning. Maybe I can get my field mowing done before Superbowl...

BTW, no fan of New England and especially Seattle (49er fan).. but really rooting for Seattle now ... New England needs to go down..
 
(quoted from post at 15:06:08 01/30/15)
I think I'll spend the 1/2 hour that will take Sunday morning. Maybe I can get my field mowing done before Superbowl...

BTW, no fan of New England and especially Seattle (49er fan).. but really rooting for Seattle now ... New England needs to go down..
ight be good plan to make the Starter Circuit Voltage Drop measurements (lower rt corner of chart) and compare.
 

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