6v 9n coil melted

jasond

Member
i have a 9n new to me. ran well when purchased.
changed plugs wires and all fluids.
was having difficulty starting it and stupid me
kept trying, now i get nothing when i turn key and
push starter.
my coil atop distributor is melted. caused quite an
explosion of melted greaselike plastic.
any ideas?
 
" any ideas? "

Yep

See tip # 38 at the link. Melting the coil will occur even quicker w/o the OEM ballast resistor as soundguy said.

You may have burned the points up too. Pull the distributor & check.

And the next time it won't start, check out tip # 13.
75 Tips
 
i do not believe it to be missing anything. honestly seems pretty original all around

but i need to find what that resisitor looks like to verify
 
its very possible that the key was on as it shut off

as i was trying to start it did turn over and run for a moment

how would i prevent this all from happening again while starting?

am i correct that i need to purchase a resistor coil and will need to check points?
 
i managed to find it in a diagram and yes i have that on rear of my dash

all my wires are really ugly w dry rotted insulations and corroded exposed strands

time to replace all wires too huh?
 
" how would i prevent this all from happening again while starting?"

It's unlikely that you melted a coil trying to start the tractor. What melted the coil was leaving the key on when the points were closed.

So, don't leave the key on.

" am i correct that i need to purchase a resistor coil"

No.

Coils either require an external resistor or they don't. The square coil on the N tractors requires an external resistor. If your tractor has the OEM ballast resistor as Del posted, then you are fine. Just buy a new coil.

" am i correct that i need to.....check points?"

Yes. And chances are 9 out of 10 that you will need to replace them. Use only Bluestreak or Echlin points.

Ever pulled the distributor on the tractor before? If not, post back & we'll tell you how to do that & replace the points.

" time to replace all wires too huh? "

That's an excellent idea. See tip # 42.

And don't forget to replace the negative battery cable & the positive battery strap while you're rewiring it. (tip # 41)

Finally....if you don't have the manuals, see tip # 39.

Get all your parts here or from nnalert's.

TSC N parts are over priced junk.

NAPA N parts are overpriced but usually good quality.
75 Tips
 
thanks for all the replies!
i have not pulled the distributor or ever worked w points before
i did find a good you tube video that i feel confident trying lol

so i will order only a new coil and points, maybe the whole tune up kit w cap etc oh yeah and wires


when you refer to oem strap on positive what is
that?

and im sorry im still not understanding the turn key off part
if i turn the key on and start pushing the starter and it begins to run, do i need to turn the key off asap? i dont know that i fully understand the correct start procedure

i have an assembly manual and service parts catalog at present will look for the others online
 
In order for it to run, the key has to be in the on position, you do not want to leave the key in the on position when it is not running.

the key switch has nothing to do with the starter, it should crank over even with the igeh switch turned off, it just will not start.
 
" when you refer to oem strap on positive what is that?"

It's a braided wire strap, not an insulated cable.

" f i turn the key on and start pushing the starter and it begins to run, do i need to turn the key off asap? "

If you do that, then you will be cutting off the current to the coil & the tractor will stop running.

As R. Geiger said, the key needs to be OFF when the tractor is NOT running.

" i have not pulled the distributor or ever worked w points before"

It's not that hard. I learned when I was 13.

The front distributor was designed to come off of the tractor to replace/adjust the points. To do this, remove the wire on the coil, remove the coil bail, remove the distributor cap & take the two bolts off. The base of the distributor has an offset tang & can only go back one way unless you really force it on.

The first thing you need to check is bushing wear. If the shaft has any sideways movement AT ALL, the bushings must be replaced. (see below)

Next, look at how the points & condenser are set in the distributor before you start pulling it down! Turn the tang & observe how the points open & close. If this is your first time doing it, draw a sketch! Make sure you are using quality points. I use only Wells, Blue Streak or Echlin brand points (* see below). Be careful not to ground the tip of the condenser wire to the body of the distributor when you replace the points. Do not break the little copper strip that go to the points. (If you do, make another out of the old set of points). Also, make sure the condenser wire does not go through the same opening in the distributor as the coil pig tail. The condenser wire goes through the opening on the top right.

Look at the old points; are they burned, pitted or misaligned? Check the point gap, .015 on all four lobes. Make sure the blade is at a perfect right angle to the points. You want to feel just the slightest bit of drag when you pull the blade through the points. Set the points on the high side of the cam and ensure they align correctly. Make sure you have the star washers under the screws on the points. If you need to replace the 8-32 X .19 fillister head screws, ensure that the new screws do not interfere with the advance weights. Dress the points by running a piece of card stock or a brown paper bag through them. New points sometimes have an anti-corrosive dielectric coating on them & old points can corrode or pick up grease from a dirty feeler gauge or excessive cam lubricant. And, don’t forget to lube the rubbing block w/ cam lube; not Vaseline, not bearing grease, but cam lube (** see below).

If you are using quality points and cannot get the gap to pen to .015, chances are you need to replace the bushings.

Now, set the timing. Get a meter or test light, a 21/64” drill bit (*** see below) & a metal straight edge. Put the distributor face down w/ the condenser on the left & the timing plate lock screw on the bottom. Look at the end of the shaft: it has a narrow side & a wide side. Make sure you can tell the difference. Now, place the drill bit in the bottom mounting hole (this will be your reference point for measuring). Next, place a straight edge on the wide side of the tang on the shaft as shown in fig. FO83 in the picture. Rotate the shaft CCW (as viewed from rotor side OR CW as viewed from back/tang side) until the straight edge is ¼" beyond the outside edge of the drill bit you stuck in the distributor mounting hole. At this distance, the distributor points should start to open (get your meter/light out now & check). If not, loosen the timing plate lock screw and turn to advance or retard the timing (move the plate down to advance timing, up to retard). Remember, each one of those little hash marks represents about 4° of timing. Keep adjusting until you get the proper ¼" setting. (if the plate won’t move, you might need to remove the big C clip to loosen it a bit) As you’re adjusting, eliminate backlash by turning the shaft backwards (CW as viewed from the front) and bring the shaft forward (CCW as viewed from the front) to measure your setting. This ¼" setting will get you static timing at top dead center.

As you can see from the picture, this particular distributor needed to have the timing advanced by about 8° (two hash marks) to achieve the ¼” measurement.

After you set the points & timing, do a continuity check before you put the distributor back on the tractor.

Before you start, make sure your meter/light works.

With the distributor still off the tractor, follow these steps:

1. Coil off, cap off, points open. One probe on the brass screw & the other on both sides of the open points. On the side closest to the cam, you should have continuity. Not on the other side! If you do, you will also have continuity everywhere because the points are grounded.

2. Coil off, cap off, points open. One probe on the brass screw & the other anywhere on the body of the distributor. You should have no continuity! Now, rotate the tang on the distributor....as the points open & close, you have continuity (closed) and lose it when they open.

3. Put the coil on the distributor, cap off, points open. One probe on the lead on the top of the coil, the other on the cam side of the open points. You should have continuity!

4. Coil on, cap off, points open. One probe on the lead on the top of the coil, the other anywhere on the body of the distributor. You should have no continuity!

At this point, I just put the distributor, coil & cap all back on the tractor as a unit. The reason I do this is because it is real easy to get the cap or coil misaligned trying to put it back together, one piece at a time. The result is something gets broken or you get a ‘no spark’ problem.

It's possible to put it back on wrong & break it. Look at the slot on the end of the cam shaft. Whatever angle it happens to be, turn the distributor tang to match it. Make sure you can tell the wide side from the narrow side on both the cam & distributor! (close counts). Place the distributor on the front of the engine, gently push it in place & slowly turn the distributor body until you feel the tang slip into the slot. Rotate the distributor body until the bolt holes line up. Hand tighten the two bolts until the distributor body is flush with the timing gear cover.

Double-check your firing order & plug wires. It’s 1-2-4-3, counterclockwise. It’s very easy to cross 3 & 4.

And finally, do not forget to remove the distributor on an annual basis (more often, depending on use) to check the point gap and re-lube the cam.


* NAPA part numbers:

• Points: FD-6769X
• Condenser: FD-71
• Rotor: FD-104
• Cap: FD-126


** Distributor cam lube:
http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/Result.aspx?Ntt=ECH+ML1&Ntk=Keyword&Nty=1&Dn=0&D=ECH+ML1&Dk=1&Dp=3&N=0
** Distributor cam lube


http://www.carquest.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/subcategory__10151_-1_10651_11340


*** Rather than the drill bit, a jig made by Dan Allen (The Old Hokie) will make this task quicker & more accurate. http://mysite.verizon.net/oldhokie/windyridge/id11.html


**** Unscrew the plate hold down screw & remove the C clip to get the plate out. Remove the shaft & weights. The weights should freely move.


There are three ways to replace the bushings in a front distributor:

1. Buy new bushings (part numbers 9N12120 front & 18-12132 rear). Press out the old ones, press in the new ones and ream to fit. CAUTION: do not try this unless you have a press & know how to use it. If you break the base, a new one costs $130. If you bend the tower which holds the front bushing, a new plate will cost you $30.

2. Take the new bushings and distributor to your local machine shop.

3. Send the distributor out for bushing replacement if you do not have a local machine shop.

Make sure your distributor isn’t worn out; check the wear parts with a micrometer and compare what you have to the factory specs (below).

Factory Specs:

Shaft top .4367 / .4370
Shaft Bottom .8625 / .8630
Cam Flats .789 / .791
Cam Lobes .869 / .871
Base Tang .177 / .178
IMG_20140212_144953_385_zpsd84210ac.jpg

IMG_20140212_144910_554_zps7098b9a8.jpg

distributorinsulator.jpg

timing003.jpg

Coil1.jpg

75 Tips
 
wow thank you
so i have a insulated ground wire from battery
although the insulation is dry rotted away on alot of it
i think i understand now the key issue. now i am questioning myself on which position, vertical or horizontal is on or off

you are very detailed in your instructions, thank you. hopefully i can figure my way through. i had some confidence in the video i have of points replacement, but i do not understand timing. any chance you have videos of this?

being January in the Adirondack mountains of New York here, its going to take me some time to get into this project but hope to order parts really soon.

i have a feeling i will be back w more questions then
thanks so much i really appreciate it
 
" now i am questioning myself on which position, vertical or horizontal is on or off"

That would depend on how the switch was installed. But, you can't remove the key in the on position.

" but i do not understand timing."

The concept or it's practical application in a front distributor?

" but hope to order parts really soon."

Don't forget the gaskets.

And, the timing jig will make setting the timing a lot easier. Unless you have three hands...... :)

Get the jig from The Old Hokie, AKA Dan Allen: http://windyridgefarm.us/
DSC03063.jpg

75 Tips
 
ive read a bit and watched some videos on front mount distributor and timing. now i feel very confident w your instructions. thanks this is awesome.

do you think replacing the melted coil and points will get it back running so to get into the garage and simplify the entire wire replacement? its dumb cold out in the windy fields here
 
Yes, pull the distributor off, take it inside and replace the points. Don't worry about the timing right now. Put the distributor and new coil on. While you are waiting for parts, pull the battery out and get it inside for a full charge.
 
Jason-
You have received a lot of very good information from Bruce so save it to your hard drive in a file, word, or text document. It is also important to know that the original electrical systems were 6-volt/positive ground. I don't think you told us which one you have. There is a ton of information on the 'other site' in the HOW-TO's forum. There are wiring pictorials by JMOR for virtually every scenario of system out there. I sent you an email...

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Don't know how much of your original coil is left, but if the outer case is still intact, lot of us here have gutted them and used the case to make an adaptor that allows running a modern round coil. These are cheaper than a new square coil, give a better spark, and won't self-destruct if you leave the key on.

Can't remember all the details off hand, but basically you just undo the top, dig out the old windings and tar, and solder on a piece of HT plug wire that goes to the new coil.
 
yes it is a 6volt positive ground.
also i checked my serial # and it seems to be a 1944 2n
i have the distributor in the house now and hope to try some of this great info i got from bruce
 

do you think replacing the melted coil and points will get it back running so to get into the garage and simplify the entire wire replacement? its dumb cold out in the windy fields here

Just replacing these components may not be getting at the root of your issue. Based on advice you were given, you know how to fix what you know is broken.....what you don't know is how it got broke to begin with.
I am just concerned that since your wiring is very old and sheathing is questionable, you could cause more shorting. A full short on the battery ain't a pretty site.

Can you tow her back?

A friend in NY.
 

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