Cannot start after replacing old wires

I've been refurbishing a '49 8N with front mount distributor. It is 6v with generator. The old wires were missing a lot of insulation but the tractor would crank and run fine.

After replacing with a new wiring harness from Dennis Carpenter and new spark plug wires with little to no slack, it looks great but won't start. Obviously, something with the new wiring is the problem.

I got no spark at all until i ran a hot wire from my on/off switch down to the coil. I've confirmed there is a spark and compression on all four cylinders. I don't have a compression gauge but i put my finger over the sparkplug hole and felt it blow and suck back in.

Now, that i have spark, i can make the thing backfire like nobody's business but can't manage to get it running.

My spark plug wires are in the correct firing order, but they are rotated 90 degrees from the numbers on the distributor cap. The rotation is due to the new spark plug wires. Because they are almost too short, i can't test them in another configuration. Is the 90 degree rotation a problem or does it only matter that i've got the firing order correct?

For the sake of troubleshooting, i'm assuming that the voltage regulator has to do with the generator recharging the battery and won't impact the starting process at all. Please let me know if i'm wrong.

I did clean my spark plugs which were pretty nasty and also the contacts in the distributor cap. But i haven't monkeyed around inside the distributor yet. Hopefully i don't need to since that was all working before i replaced the wires.

I appreciate any advice you can provide. I do feel a little silly asking about this though because there are so many other posts here about "no spark" and "can't start". They all seem just a little bit different than what i've described here.

Regards,
Dan

" My spark plug wires are in the correct firing order, but they are rotated 90 degrees from the numbers on the distributor cap. "

Sorry...and it's probably just me...but that doesn't make any sense at all.

You either have the firing order correct or you don't. And, " i can make the thing backfire like nobody's business" tells me that you don't.

The 4 plug wires should be different lengths, IIRC.

The long wire goes to # 4, the short wire to # 1....etc.

But, it does not matter how long or short the wire is. Look at the cap. Does the wire plugged into # 1 go to the #1 cylinder (that would be the one closest to the radiator)

The cylinders are numbered 1-2-3-4, front to rear. But, the firing order, on the cap, is 1-2-4-3.

" For the sake of troubleshooting, i'm assuming that the voltage regulator has to do with the generator recharging the battery and won't impact the starting process at all. " Correct.

" and also the contacts in the distributor cap. But i haven't monkeyed around inside the distributor yet. " Why not? You're going to a lot of trouble to replace the wires, why not check the point gap & set the timing?

But fix the firing order first.

75 Tips

Thanks, Bruce. What i meant was that i don't know if 1-2-4-3 is different than 2-4-3-1 as long as all the cylinders fire in the correct order. I wasn't sure if it mattered where the rotation begins and ends. These new spark plug wires don't allow me enough slack to change the order. It means i probably need to get some new wires. Unfortunately the old ones didn't survive removal from the wire conduit.

I haven't messed with the distributor yet because i've never tinkered with a distributor before and this will be the first time. Plus, it isn't very accessible, so i was hoping to put that off.

Dan

Wow.. was hoping this one was an ear April fools...

Look at the picture in my previous post.

Does the wire plugged into # 1 on the distributor cap go to the #1 plug?

Do all of the other wires go to the corresponding plug?

" Plus, it isn't very accessible, "

The front distributor was designed to come off of the tractor to replace/adjust the points. To do this, remove the wire on the coil, remove the coil bail, remove the distributor cap & take the two bolts off. The base of the distributor has an offset tang & can only go back one way unless you really force it on.

If you are 100% sure that those wires are correct, then it's time for you to learn about setting the points.
75 Tips

Like Bruce said Number one on the Distributor has to go to the
Number Cylinder. And so on. If for some reason your wires aren't
long enough try running to wire out side of the conduit. That
should give you a little more reach for testing purposes. I think you
will find they will work if you use the right wire on each cylinder. If
not, you need to contact the Seller.

Good idea, Fuddy Duddy. I'll pull everything out of the wire tube in the morning and try everything in the correct location.

SoundGuy, i wish it was an early April Fools joke. Unfortunately, i'm just new to this and not yet sure how literal to take some things.

Bruce, you're obviously right and I need to get familiar with my distributor. That's next on my list.

Dan........you write....."I got no spark at all until i ran a hot wire from my on/off switch down to the coil".......yep, you've bypassed the MANDATORY "infamous ballast resistor". Which tells me you've miss-wired the 3-terminal board with the HOT ballast resistor on the back of yer dash panel. The ignition switch gitts its power from the common battery terminal at the bottom of the board and when you turn the weak sister ignition switch ON, you send power to the infamous ballast resistor. The ballast resistor gitts HOT and changes yer 6-volts to about 3-volts so you don't burn yer square can coil out. Yer ballast resistor is like a lite bulb, it either works or it don't. And it takes about 1-hr fer yer 6-volts to melt the insulation tar in the squarecan coil. So you have plenty of time fer trouble shooting.

One thing you can do with the weird 4-nipple dizzy points (0.015") is clamp a bit (corner?) of a $1-bill between the point and pull. That will "polish" the invisible corrosion from between the points. You can do that with the dizzy on the block. Just kinda push the points apart and stick yer $1-bill between 'em. Simple, eh? .......HTH. Dell, yer self-appointed sparkie-meister

You probably have two problems. Install the plug wires per BruceVA's photo and see if it starts and runs. If it does then great. If it doesn't then you may have to revisit the lack of sufficient voltage at the coil.

Dan-
As the others have said -something isn't making sense 90 degrees??? I purchased the wiring from DC back in 2003 when I restored my early '48 8N. I got the exact-as-original sets, not the cheaper sets. The spark plug wires are color-coded exactly like the original -look in the F04 Manual or the original 8N Operator's Manual and they list the wires and what color they are. I had no issues with the wiring, matter of fact it fit perfectly with all wires at perfect lengths, etc. I would've done a tune-up as well with new plugs, points, and condenser while I was at it. In my opinion I'd say the reason it won't start is because you have the plug wires all jazzed up.

[i:654c4848f0][b:654c4848f0]<font size="4">Tim Daley(MI)</font>[/b:654c4848f0][/i:654c4848f0]<table width="100" border="1" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" bordercolor="#000000"><tr><td height="25" colspan="2" bgcolor="#CC0000"></td></tr><tr><td></td><td></td></tr></table>

Today was a good day in my shop. After pulling all the wires out of the wiring conduit and connecting the sparkplug wires in the correct order on the distributor, the tractor started right up. I've included a pic of the instructions that came with my wires which caused my initial confusion:


This is where my questions about the 90-degree rotation came from. In hindsight, this drawing isn't THAT confusing but I was assuming that the top of the distributor drawing would correlate to the top of my actual distributor. That of course was an incorrect assumption. In any case, it was an educational weekend.

Thanks again to everyone who educated me on distributor firing order this weekend.

-DanInKuna, Idaho

Dan I must admit at quick glance and not looking at the numbers on the cap, I would have thought the same.
Wonder why the DC instructions have the dist cap rotated 90 degrees right?

While my main wiring harness came from DC, these spark plug wires came from link_disallowed. Was supposed to be their premium ones cut specially for the 8N w/ front distributor.

I'm sure the wires are fine... probably... but this diagram in their instructions did confuse me a bit.

Dan,

You and Wolfie are right on about the puzzlement of the diagram. Natural ASSumption for all of us.

I learned somewhere to replace things a little at a time in the same way they came off. Had a '50 Chevy Sedan Delivery I switched plug wires on and it was a sweaty few hours until I figured out what had happened.

Rick

I wonder if you have a side mount wire kit with that diagram.