Oil in radiator

rrucker · Jan 22, 2015

Bought a 49 8N for $500 from an old friend. Has not been ran in 4 years. Stuck my finger in the radiator and it was covered in black oil. There is no water in the oil, and I drained the block nothing just anti-freeze.

I pulled the head and saw a couple of bad spots on the gasket so, I'm thinking it just failed.

souNdguy · Jan 22, 2015

At this point with head already pulled, not much left to
investigate till you get the head back on.

Flush out radiator and cooling system, and post back

Dell (WA) · Jan 22, 2015

rrucker........BEFORE you re-install yer flathead with NEW gasket. (recommend Fel-pro) Check yer flathead fer WARP. Use a carpenters T-square. Milling (skimming) the head to remove the WARP is common engine machine shop procedure. You can remove up-to 0.065" (1/16") before the pistons hit the head. The HIGHER compression will increase yer N-Engine from 23-hp weak sister to 26-hp MONSTER. .......HTH, Hot-Rod Dell

7080316 · Jan 23, 2015

DELL, are you saying that by simply milling the head will increase the hp from 23 to 26? I am torn down at the moment for a rebuild......

Jeff

greywolf224 · Jan 23, 2015

I am not answering for Dell rather adding my 2 cents.

In answer to your question. Quick answer is yes. Milling the head and or deck decreases cylinder volume thus increasing compression thus increasing HP assuming all other components stay the same.
Another way is adding domed pistons in place of recessed head pistons which again decreases cylinder volume. But your drive train comes into question going this route.

I did this many times on the old Pontiac engines that I worked on. More HP increase as you move up to V8 engines.

JMOR · Jan 23, 2015

(quoted from post at 06:36:34 01/23/15) DELL, are you saying that by simply milling the head will increase the hp from 23 to 26? I am torn down at the moment for a rebuild......

Jeff

or a power "increase" that you will never be able to detect, go right ahead & cut your head. Unless you have owned the tractor since it rolled out the factory door, then you don't know how much or how many past cuts have already been made. Pistons crashing into head make for expensive repairs. Flat heads are flexible and unless the lack of flatness is extreme, bolting one down will flatten it out. Don't do everything you hear about.

Ken(Ark) · Jan 23, 2015

(quoted from post at 10:48:57 01/23/15)

(quoted from post at 06:36:34 01/23/15) DELL, are you saying that by simply milling the head will increase the hp from 23 to 26? I am torn down at the moment for a rebuild......

Jeff

Click to expand...

or a power "increase" that you will never be able to detect, go right ahead & cut your head. Unless you have owned the tractor since it rolled out the factory door, then you don't know how much or how many past cuts have already been made. Pistons crashing into head make for expensive repairs. Flat heads are flexible and unless the lack of flatness is extreme, bolting one down will flatten it out. Don't do everything you hear about.

I will go ahead and throw a yellow flag , I see a technical increase but not 10% . Same goes for the .080 oversized pistons that I have not installed yet .

greywolf224 · Jan 23, 2015

Let me just be clear. JMOR is correct.

I merely answered the question you asked.

My example was based on an engine that was making 375 hp at the start and was aiming for 400HP. That horse power was meant for speed and not plowing fields.

For the engines that we work on here and for their intended purposes, a few more ponies is not gaining you anything. It is all about gearing and how much torque eventually makes it to the rear wheels.

These heads rarely need to be milled and only for severe purposes and only if proper head torqueing does not give you a desired result.

JMOR - I hope I explained myself.

7080316 · Jan 23, 2015

Then I shall not change a thing... The way Dell said it, made me think it was a useful gain. Thanks for the additional info guys..

Jeff

Ken(Ark) · Jan 23, 2015

For the engines that we work on here and for their intended purposes, a few more ponies is not gaining you anything. It is all about gearing and how much torque eventually makes it to the rear wheels.

Though it may not be practical I would assume that a man could make a noticeable gain in power / torque with multiple modifications . Compression is probably the biggest area that can be improved on but also one of the more expensive routes .

Thats one of the perks to this forum , debating the pros and cons and how much the engineering technology in parts / tools / techniques has evolved .

greywolf224 · Jan 23, 2015

Ken you are absolutely correct. There is a fascinating science behind power gains on an engine. Everything that is modified has a direct affect on the next component. Intake and Exhaust manifolds, carbs, cam shafts, compression, timing and plenty of money to name a few.

An 8N tractor engine is not an engine that I would try to test my knowledge on power gains.

Ken(Ark) · Jan 23, 2015

An 8N tractor engine is not an engine that I would try to test my knowledge on power gains.

I don't think I will modify the Funk six cylinder ( smokes bad and needs a rebuild ) but I wish I had a nickle every time I thought , man I wish I had 5 more horsepower while I was bush hogging the thick stuff on the north forty - 9N/8N's four cylinder .

greywolf224 · Jan 23, 2015

I would probably go with looking at gearing rather than add on an extra 5 HP. Maybe a Sherman or one of those other mid section add on's.
Maybe smaller back tires
Maybe a larger tractor.

Engine mods get real expensive. Save your nickles.

kylemorley · Jan 23, 2015

I posted some numbers on this this back in a discussion of Sherman heads while back. Can't find them but best as I can recall the increase in power in something along the lines of 5% more HP for each point of compression. I would be surprised if shaving the head on an n-series gains even half a point of compression, so you are realistically looking at maybe 2 or 3% increase, at full throttle that is.

Oh and there is a school of thought that claims that n-series heads hardy ever really need milling since they are thin and flexible enough to bend a bit as they are torqued down.

Unneccesary milling just unnecessarily "uses up" the head prematurely.

(quoted from post at 17:18:29 01/23/15)
I would probably go with looking at gearing rather than add on an extra 5 HP. Maybe a Sherman or one of those other mid section add on's.
Maybe smaller back tires
Maybe a larger tractor.

Engine mods get real expensive. Save your nickles.

Hobo,NC · Jan 23, 2015

(quoted from post at 19:40:59 01/23/15) Then I shall not change a thing... The way Dell said it, made me think it was a useful gain. Thanks for the additional info guys..

Jeff

The difference in HP tween a 9/2N and a 8N is all made in the head... A 8N head is a cast iron knock off of a Sherman head... If you have a 9/2N head replace it with a original 8N head you will notice the difference...

New replacement heads have the same combustion specks as a 9/2N head

Oil in radiator

rrucker

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souNdguy

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Dell (WA)

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7080316

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greywolf224

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JMOR

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Ken(Ark)

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greywolf224

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7080316

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Ken(Ark)

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greywolf224

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