8n will almost start

8nnRinggold

New User
I have a 1952 8n ford converted to 12 volt electronic ignition system about 5 years ago. Side mounted distribitor. This tractor has always ran good and easy to start. One day I tried to start it and the starter would not turn over. I found that I had a bad connection from the negative wire to the frame. The starter is working but the tractor will almost start. I have replaced and gaped plugs,replaced wires,cleaned fuel filters and carburator,drained old gas,put in fresh gas,removed bolt at the bottom of carb,steady flow of fuel,all plugs are sparking and getting fuel, checked timing, replaced ignition switch,replaced distribitor cap and rotor button,compression is good, pulled side covers off,valves are not sticking although the valves did need adjusting and adjusted to proper clearence.Replaced ignition switch.Battery has been tested it is good. Switched out coil with another coil that I know is good. What am I missing or overlooking? I noticed someone had the same problem in 2011 on this forum but he did not write back if he found the problem or not.
 
(quoted from post at 15:38:12 01/21/15) I have a 1952 8n ford converted to 12 volt electronic ignition system about 5 years ago. Side mounted distribitor. This tractor has always ran good and easy to start. One day I tried to start it and the starter would not turn over. I found that I had a bad connection from the negative wire to the frame. The starter is working but the tractor will almost start. I have replaced and gaped plugs,replaced wires,cleaned fuel filters and carburator,drained old gas,put in fresh gas,removed bolt at the bottom of carb,steady flow of fuel,all plugs are sparking and getting fuel, checked timing, replaced ignition switch,replaced distribitor cap and rotor button,compression is good, pulled side covers off,valves are not sticking although the valves did need adjusting and adjusted to proper clearence.Replaced ignition switch.Battery has been tested it is good. Switched out coil with another coil that I know is good. What am I missing or overlooking? I noticed someone had the same problem in 2011 on this forum but he did not write back if he found the problem or not.

My 8N was getting to where I had to use starter fluid to start it. Then when it was running and under a load like a box blade full of dirt going up a slight incline the tractor would bog down to the point of dying if I didn't raise the blade and lose the dirt.

I checked the spark with a tester and it was ok. checked the fuel flow and it was ok. Checked the points and they were ok.

So, what finally fixed the problem? I opened up the high speed jet a quarter turn at a time and tried it under a load. Got better and better. Finally opened it to one full turn and that cured the problem.
 
" sparking and getting fuel, checked timing,"

Will the spark jump 1/4" in the open air?

How do you know it's getting fuel? Are the plugs wet?

How are you checking timing? With a light?

Tried starting fluid?
75 Tips
 
8nnRinggold,Get you a new set of Autolite 437 plugs and while changing them and you have the old ones out.Give each cylinder 1 squirt or 2 of motor oil with a oil can.Put the new plugs in ,remove the air cleaner hose and give the carb a shot or two of ether and try starting it.
 
Ringy.......umn......electronic ignition, eh? You don't suppose you blew a transistor do you? Unlike the 4-nipple front mount coil, the 5-nipple round can coil is semi-bulletproof. Recommend a real 12-volt round can coil like NAPA IC14sb. And surprizingly enuff, replacing the sparkie wires could be part of yer problem, specially iff'n you used modern STRING sparkie wires. Always use old fashioned COPPER core sparkie wires. (cut to length; $20, cheep). While the weak sister ignition switch effects 6-volt systems more often, they will physically FAIL with 12-volt systems too.

What do you mean compression is good? Ford specs: 90psi min. Good runnin' N-Engines are usually about 110psi. Brand new rebuilt engines test about +125psi.

Replacing FLOODED sparkies is good. Don't chuck the FLOODED sparkies, just clean'n'dry one-atta-time in HOT running engine and save'um fer the next time. (and there will be a next time) Recommend AutoLite 437's gapped 0.025". .......Dell, yer self-appointed sparkie-meister
 
8nnRinggold,you said,replaced plug wires,are they copper wires? And it easy to get them crossed up check the Firing order 1243 again.
 
(quoted from post at 08:38:33 01/22/15) Ringy.......umn......electronic ignition, eh? You don't suppose you blew a transistor do you? Unlike the 4-nipple front mount coil, the 5-nipple round can coil is semi-bulletproof. Recommend a real 12-volt round can coil like NAPA IC14sb. And surprizingly enuff, replacing the sparkie wires could be part of yer problem, specially iff'n you used modern STRING sparkie wires. Always use old fashioned COPPER core sparkie wires. (cut to length; $20, cheep). While the weak sister ignition switch effects 6-volt systems more often, they will physically FAIL with 12-volt systems too.

What do you mean compression is good? Ford specs: 90psi min. Good runnin' N-Engines are usually about 110psi. Brand new rebuilt engines test about +125psi.

Replacing FLOODED sparkies is good. Don't chuck the FLOODED sparkies, just clean'n'dry one-atta-time in HOT running engine and save'um fer the next time. (and there will be a next time) Recommend AutoLite 437's gapped 0.025". .......Dell, yer self-appointed sparkie-meister

His EI set up does not require copper core plug wires... He would be better off whit out them...

I rarely use copper core wires on anything and never had a issue YMMV... If he are anyone else doubt what they have just make'em up out of 14 gauge electrical wire and play...

I would wager the type of plug wire is not his issue are any other 6/12 points are EI unless the wire was cheap are defective.. Its a myth that has been beat to death...
 
(quoted from post at 13:36:01 01/22/15)
(quoted from post at 08:38:33 01/22/15) Ringy.......umn......electronic ignition, eh? You don't suppose you blew a transistor do you? Unlike the 4-nipple front mount coil, the 5-nipple round can coil is semi-bulletproof. Recommend a real 12-volt round can coil like NAPA IC14sb. And surprizingly enuff, replacing the sparkie wires could be part of yer problem, specially iff'n you used modern STRING sparkie wires. Always use old fashioned COPPER core sparkie wires. (cut to length; $20, cheep). While the weak sister ignition switch effects 6-volt systems more often, they will physically FAIL with 12-volt systems too.

What do you mean compression is good? Ford specs: 90psi min. Good runnin' N-Engines are usually about 110psi. Brand new rebuilt engines test about +125psi.

Replacing FLOODED sparkies is good. Don't chuck the FLOODED sparkies, just clean'n'dry one-atta-time in HOT running engine and save'um fer the next time. (and there will be a next time) Recommend AutoLite 437's gapped 0.025". .......Dell, yer self-appointed sparkie-meister

His EI set up does not require copper core plug wires... He would be better off whit out them...

I rarely use copper core wires on anything and never had a issue YMMV... If he are anyone else doubt what they have just make'em up out of 14 gauge electrical wire and play...

I would wager the type of plug wire is not his issue are any other 6/12 points are EI unless the wire was cheap are defective.. Its a myth that has been beat to death...
es, Hobo! There are certain Pertronix units that the company's installation instructions state, "DO NOT USE SOLID CORE SPARK PLUG WIRES WITH THIS UNIT."
"You cannot use solid core (typically copper) spark plug wires with this product. Solid core wires do not suppress electro magnetic interference (EMI) which will interfere with electronics in this product. A suppression style or spiral wound spark plug wires must be used. "
 
Compression is 120. One thing i forgot to mention. Before I found the bad connection I took the starter off and had it checked out. The tech cleaned the armiture , installed new bushings replaced the seliniode. He said it was bad. Now when I try to start the tractor once the starter is disengadged the motor dies. Is it possible something is running backwards?
 

Here is a thought, does the solenoid have a terminal that sends more voltage to the coil for a hotter spark when cranking? For a test run a hot wire to the battery side of the coil ans see if that changes anything. Don't run it long this way if it works.
 
(quoted from post at 17:57:58 01/22/15) Compression is 120. One thing i forgot to mention. Before I found the bad connection I took the starter off and had it checked out. The tech cleaned the armiture , installed new bushings replaced the seliniode. He said it was bad. Now when I try to start the tractor once the starter is disengadged the motor dies. Is it possible something is running backwards?
he wire to switch might be on wrong post on solenoid it should be on battery side.
 
JMOR.......we gotts COMPUTERS on our N-TRACTORS???? ........the SHOCKED Dell who still recommends copper-core sparkie wires 'stedda modern string sparkie wires
 
(quoted from post at 01:33:58 01/23/15) JMOR.......we gotts COMPUTERS on our N-TRACTORS???? ........the SHOCKED Dell who still recommends copper-core sparkie wires 'stedda modern string sparkie wires
ey, Dell.........I'm just the messenger, doing an exact quote of one Pertronix data sheet. Notice that they are saying that the EMI may interfere with their own EI unit! :roll:
 
Crank and start have to different meanings...
It can not crank at all
It can Crank the engine over slow
It can crank and kick out the starter drive
It can crank normal and not start
You can fill in the blanks it cranks ____ _____ ___

Does it not CRANK well are (the actual mechanic action of cranking the engine over)

are

Start

Does it crank normal not START. (fire up run on its on)

The engine cranks over but won't start.

The engine starts but dies.


The starter is working but the tractor will almost start
The starter cranking speed is :NORMAL: the engine try's to start.

I would check spark with a adjustable spark checker once I confirmed spark with a checker I would take a look at a spark plug is it dry are wet if wet I would clean are replace. If dry I would confirm fuel flow and quality. If the fuel checks out I would take a look at the choke flapper and go as far as to manually choke the engine with the palm of my hand...

I have always found a wet plug confirms fuel delivery but not quality..

I suspect fuel delivery on a dry plug...

Confirm those test and report back...

BTW voltage readings during your event at the battery are always good to know...





http://www.aa1car.com/library/us1296.htm
 
Thanks for the tip and to all who sent advice. The wire from ammeter was connected to the wrong side of the soleniode switch. Tractor is running good now.
 
(quoted from post at 04:11:34 01/24/15) Thanks for the tip and to all who sent advice. The wire from ammeter was connected to the wrong side of the soleniode switch. Tractor is running good now.

One of those self inflected wound :evil:

Dump that silly amp meter for a volt meter you then would know if the ignition was powered up...
 
go deaper in your distributor

maybe one of the wing is broken this is from my experience before and i should say twice

this problem was cause by my loose camshaft gear
 

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