silver solder 2n engine block sound guy

Despite what others may say, soldering or silver soldering on an oil saturated old block is not a cut and dried easy task.
What kind of torch were you planning to use?
You would need at least propane + oxygen or mapp + oxygen to get it hot enough. I would use Acetylene + oxygen myself.
I doubt ordinary lead solder would even bond to cast iron as you have to get the CI so hot and silver solder likely wouldn't either.
Brazing would however.
I welded and brazed a bunch of blocks in a prior life and know that the task of fixing a block so it's right is not for a novice.
Another thing is are you hoping to fix this on the tractor? Gonna lay the tractor on it's side so you can puddle in the brazing or solder going flat? It takes a darned good hand to puddle anything going uphill.
How are you going to cook all the coolant out of the crack so it doesn't ruin your braze or solder joint?
Are you skilled enough to stick weld it with a good nickel rod? Do you know how to preheat, post heat and stress relieve the weld? Can you weave a rod uphill?
And don't let anyone tell you you can do it with 6011 or some such. That is a complete waste of time.
Jmor mentioned correcting some of the BS that is passed off as electrical advice here.
So in that vein I'm calling out any BS advice that welding, brazing or soldering your block is a simple fix.
 
Thanks for the advice if any body has any other advice feel free . Maybe just sell as is . The only thing i have going for me is it looks to be pin holes from prior weld not a whole crack.
 
(quoted from post at 19:46:39 01/18/15) Thanks for the advice if any body has any other advice feel free . Maybe just sell as is . The only thing i have going for me is it looks to be pin holes from prior weld not a whole crack.
You might try water glass. (Sodium Silicate)
You can buy it at most any drug store.
Pour it in the radiator like stop leak and work it until hot to seal.
I have never tried it in an N, but have had good results in older cars/trucks.
Like most any stop leak product, it is a band aid.
 
And don't let anyone tell you you can do it with 6011 or some such. That is a complete waste of time.
Jmor mentioned correcting some of the BS that is passed off as electrical advice here.
So in that vein I'm calling out any BS advice that welding, brazing or soldering your block is a simple fix.

I have a few blocks welded with a 6011 , simple fix .
 
I also have a block that I built up the exhaust port and ground down with a hand grinder . Replaced the gasket and had it back working in an hour , lets see , that was in 2009 and it still works great .
 
Tom,I agree with Ultradog MN 100% on every thing he stated even about the BS.You can't just solder or silver solder a cast iron block while still in the tractor and expect it to work and hold up.Lock and Stitch would be a way to permanently repair that crack. Not to hard of a job if the previous brazening job didn't harden the cast to much.It might not be as hardened as much as electric welding would cause.Check the link below also about cast iron welding to learn the truth!Or remove the engine and have it brazed again by some one who has knowledge and experience about brazing cast iron.
If its just seeping antifreeze around the old repair you might try some K&W block sealer with copper particles.Do a treatment follow directions on the can to a TI even pressurize the cooling system after running to help it work better.I have stopped many cracked block and cylinder head leaks with it.If you use it don't forget to remove the thermostat first,then replace it after your done.
Block Repair
 
I never recommended soldering , I have not tried it so I can't say one way or the other .

I have had good results on these tractor blocks with a simple 6011 , as the choice was try to fix it or pull the motor and replace with another block . They were a dime a dozen just a few years ago .

The first N I got is nick named Frankenstein because the local tractor repair shop welded a few cracks with a 6011 . It has never leaked a drop .
 
Tom's original post had to do with his moral obligation to disclose a flaw to any potential buyer.
If I tried to weld anything made of cast iron with 6011 I would feel a moral obligation to tell a buyer I had attempted to repair it in an incorrect way and it was Guaranteed to crack, break, leak or otherwise fail.
But your mileage may vary.
 
(quoted from post at 21:03:50 01/18/15) Tom's original post had to do with his moral obligation to disclose a flaw to any potential buyer.
If I tried to weld anything made of cast iron with 6011 I would feel a moral obligation to tell a buyer I had attempted to repair it in an incorrect way and it was Guaranteed to crack, break, leak or otherwise fail.
But your mileage may vary.

Yes , if this was a '63 vette it would be an incorrect weld . For a $1200 N that is already leaking it is an option . As no guaranty was given my first N has logged 100's of hours with no problem . But I do agree that a perspective buyer should know that the block has been welded , or in this case rewelded .
 
He's nit soldering a crack, he's soldering a pin hold in a weld. I've had no problem with plumbing solder sticking to either with a lil prep, including draining water, metal prep and preheat to burn out oil, then abundant flux paste... Which I said all that in my prev message.

I've done it. If you haven't done it, don't say it can't be done! There are also plenty of alloy rods out there that let you solder to junk pot metals and aluminum. Once you tin the aluminum with the alloy rod, you can then silver solder to it. I have a pic I posted for naysayers showing aluminum bar stock with steel and copper soldered to it.
 
If you don't even know what solder to use you are unlikely to do a successful job on an old oil soaked block.

What is the resistance to trying a can of Barsleak? It has a wicked good track record, and is even used and approved by a number of car manufacturers as a "lifetime" repair. If it works, then you can sell the tractor as a running tractor and just mention that the block appears to have been repaired and let the buyer make up their own mind. If the Barsleak doesn't work you can worry about plain B. Though I got to say, I think the odds of success are better with Barsleak than amateur on-the-tractor welding, brazing or soldering repair.

I'm all for full disclosure, but you can go too far.

(quoted from post at 20:43:01 01/18/15) When i go to lowes to get solder or get solder from
plumbing box is there a % of silver solder i should use . Or
what kind
 
What is the resistance to trying a can of Barsleak?

I am all for a man spending his money on what ever he chooses to do , especially on his own equipment .

I have used barsleak before and it worked just like it was intended to . It would probably work here too . Maybe it is just a misconception , but it seems like it is not a permanent solution like physically closing the seam .

The problem I have with barsleak is there is a lot of volume in that can . The part that does not seal the leak settles in the block . I have torn down motors and removed freeze plugs to hot vat the block only to see that the sediment level is half way up the plug hole .

Probably would not notice in an N motor as they can hold a quart of sediment in those deep cavities with out affecting the cooling process .

Here again , to each his own . I don't see this as a fix it perfect at any cost project .
 
I'd go with silver plumbing solder and the paste flux for such.

Some here appear fearfull of soldering.... possibly due to low or NO experience with it, perhaps other than putting some copper together.

here's an example of what all you can do if you know how to solder.

You can join aluminum to copper, mild steel, plated hard ened steel bolts, galvanized tin tabs.. etc.
a50002.jpg

a50004.jpg

a50011.jpg

a50012.jpg
 
Thanks for the advice if any body has any other advice feel free . Maybe just sell as is . The only thing i have going for me is it looks to be pin holes from prior weld not a whole crack.
 
I'm actually a big fan of soldering, and use it often. But then like you I have a lot of fluxes and solders and know which ones to use. Even so I'd hesitate to attempt to solder a dirty old casting in situ with a propane or map torch as an "intro to soldering" project, let alone with solder and flux from the local hardware store. Your pictures are fun, and a good demo of what can be done with solder, but one can't help notice that there are no large lumps of oil/coolant soaked iron in them. Not be saying it can't be done, just that it isn't a job for a novice.
 

There's a classic sports car place with it's own little attached machine shop, Strebor Engineering in Victoria, B.C.
One day the owner was extolling the virtues of LocWeld by Loctite. He told me he had patched 2 cracked MGB HEADS with
it and the repairs were successful.

My guess as to why it was successful is that the coefficient of expansion of the casting to that of the LocWeld was so close
that the two didn't separate during heat expansion. Good adhesion factors in too of course.

And a head is a lot hotter than the block, so it could very well work for you.
 
oil and coolant can be burned out.

it's only a pinhole he's fixing.. thus once the surface is clean, you can wet it with solder.

I think everybody hear is missing the fact that he's fixing a pin hole.

As for the OP having no experience. well... that's how you GAIN experience. you start practicing. There's a first time for everything and everybody.

Telling the guy he can't do it becuase he's never done it would be kind of an injustice. He might solder better than either of us one day... and he might never learn the skill unless someone tells him to go buy 10$ of solder and flux and give it a shot....
 
just trying to demonstraight that you can get pretty creative with soldering if you actually try.

i have mild steel, copper, a galvanized tin tab, and a plated hard bolt all soldered to a piece of aluminum bar stock.....

someone on another forum flat out told me i couldn't do it.. i flat out showed them they were 100% incorrect.
 
Tom,

If you go with the recommended soldering material and advice just practice a bunch first on other pieces you have laying around.

It's a win/win even if the block repair doesn't pan out cause you'll be all practiced up for the next solder repair job.

Edit:
For myself I would choose Oxy/acet cause I'm not a good enough arc welder to tackle a block . . . and I would have the motor on its side. but it is a job I wouldn't relish with the great heat sink of cast all around the repair area.

The owner of the taxis that bring kids from the outer islands to our school, was restoring a 1952 International pickup. They seemed to think I could weld the broken off end manifold bolt
mount, thick cast tab, back on.

Thing is I had never welded cast before but knew oxy/acet well so I took the job. Had an intense time of it, making sure the flange was perfectly on the same pane as the rest of the mounting faces -- because a torqued bolt is going through it's hole.

So anyway, I
V'd it out, playing it all by ear . . .
and poured the coals to it hoping I nailed the point at which both materials are at the optimum bonding state.

that manifold end tab never broke off again as far as i know.
The budding mechanic who asked me to do it, was the one restoring the truck for Water Taxi Jack, and he has his own busy repair shop now . . . years later. I'll have to ask him where that pickup went.

The point? Oh ya . . . a reiteration . . .
So that's why, given my limited skills, and knowing only that much about brazing cast iron, if oxy/acet would be my preferred repair which it probably would, I'd still need to roll the Jube on his side. :D
 
(quoted from post at 23:44:48 01/19/15) just trying to demonstraight that you can get pretty creative with soldering if you actually try.

i have mild steel, copper, a galvanized tin tab, and a plated hard bolt all soldered to a piece of aluminum bar stock.....

someone on another forum flat out told me i couldn't do it.. i flat out showed them they were 100% incorrect.

I could be a naysayer but I am not sure I could prove you wrong... There was a radiator shop across the street from me one time ran by a guy named Bill Cook... He once told me solder was a gentleman to all metals,,, Its got to be clean... My luck has not been as good as his are yours... If he uses Silver he will need some serious heat if it can be done at all... Sounds like a good job for black pepper...
 
Clean, yes, but antique tractor clean can work. Takes the correct fluxes and solders as well, there are many types of both. Silver or other leadless solder does take more heat than lead 60/40, but not more than a blue plumbers torch can make. With fluids drained he can he's a spot hot enough to wet solder. It's less heat than brazing. If it had been a crack I'd have said skip solder and brass, but a pinhole in a weld should plug up good. Plenty of places to hold a puddle. As a first go with soldering, who knows, he my find it too difficult, doesn't cist him much to try, probably 10$ or so
 
Yup, first I did, was with a large copper and used it to join thin rain gutter and decorative roofing. Them coppers and a wet rag can steam some dents out of wood too.
 
Soundguy that is great plcs i will give a try what do i have to loose a lot less than with a stick welder . I been reseacching and watched a guy use tintite i cant find it.lots good info from you guys .
 
The only reason i asked which solder is there are diffrent kinds i know what solder is and ive never been able to make a copper pipe in a house the stand on its side to solder it . Iam not an idiot i have soldered pipe before . I just wanted to start out with the right % of silver lead etc its a yes its a 1200 $ tractor that i have 600$ into yes i will tell the buyer the welds etc. But it will be easier to sell if its not weeping. The hood is in good shape one knew tire steering is pretty tight pto is smooth . Its up for sale guys. I sure wish i could sell it i want a allis wd 45 just for you royse
 
I know some will not like what I'm going to say And I know there are better way to fix a cracked block but I had a cracked block in a 2n last year. I drilled a hole at each end of the crack to stop it from cracking further Than V'd out the crack with a cutoff wheel in a grinder, clean the area good with grinder and rough sandpaper. Smeared some industrial strength JB weld on it. It does not leak or weep. I figure I'd give it a shot before changing out the block. I only did it last year but so far so good.
 

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