How did your 6V start this morning?

Well, its -9 here in SW Michigan and I decided before leaving for work to start the 2N and use the rear blade to clear the drive of snow(only 3-4 inches here right now). Was pleased with how well it started and ran. Just finished restoration on it late fall, and never having a tractor on the farm with 3 point, I dont know how we went so long without it.
Anyway, the 6v system is very well capable of working in sub zero temps, just need to keep it maintained.
Calling for more snow tonight, so it will get a workout the next couple days.

Corey
 
Im just across the pond from you and it hesitates but it makes a world of difference if I plug in the lower hose heater for an hour or so. I also leave a battery maintainer on.
 
Don't have a 6v N to try and the 12v one is laid up right now.

However, I'll stir the pot by pointing out that my 12v Ford Explorer cranked fine this morning but wouldn't fire (it's about -8 here).

Yesterday the 12v Ford Focus didn't want to turn at all at first, (eventually it did and started).

Kind of surprising as they both started without trouble when it was about this cold a few days earlier.
 
My 6V 9N started right up. -10 or so. It did want to run on 2 cyl. for a bit-then 3- then after a minute or 2 went on all 4. It did better than me.
 
good for you.

my experience over the years was never too good starting vehicles with 6 volts systems in cold weather.

my old tractor has an early 12 volt system, I have replaced the battery cables with #1 size cable wires, installed the highest cca battery that will fit in the battery box.

but it sets out in the barn, I would not want to put any money on it starting this morning, even though I keep the battery charged up with my battery tender.

I remember back in the days, guys with AC WD45's with high compression kits installed had to install 8 volt batteries to get them to turn over when the engine was hot.

do not know what an 8 volt battery would do to a 6 volt system.

keep warm and stay safe.
 
Not very well this morning. I have an unheated garage, it was -9 last night, +7 right now. I have a lower hose heater and a battery tender on my 1947 8N front mount.

She turned over the starter, but no fire. Did one quick pull on the choke, still no fire. I checked gas flow, it's good but a lot of gas poured out when I removed the plug. Possibly flooded? There is a half tank of gas in her. She ran good last time I parked her.
,
I guess I'm back to checking for spark, taking ohm readings, and points/plugs inspection - AGAIN. All ready to clean our 1-mile gravel road of 8" snow plus drifts, for the 24 association members, with a new box blade on the 3-point, and the tractor FAILS!

Now, I'm thinking about a 12-volt conversion & EI, would either of these help? I need a reliable tractor that works when I need it!

Go ahead, your opinion is appreciated no matter what side of the fence you sit.

Gunny, in Iowa
 
-8F here this morning. No need to start the tractors so I'll let em be. I can expect my 2N to start easily at that temp. My 8N can be a little more challenging at temps below zero. You are absolutely correct in stating that a well maintained 6v system will work in low temp conditions. A clean oil bath and a good engine also play a big roles.

Colin, MN
 
The EI debate comes up here w/ such frequency that you would benefit from doing an archives search on the topic so that you can make an informed decision based upon factual information. I don't plan on repeating my often stated comments on the subject.

But first......

Go back & read the original post from corchel1942. Pay particular attention to this quote: " Anyway, the 6v system is very well capable of working in sub zero temps, just need to keep it maintained."

The likely reason your tractor didn't start is a weak spark from a weak battery. You have enough current to spin the starter, but not enough to give you a good spark.

No matter what else you do, the battery must be fully charged. A float charger is helpful. If you need to jump it, see tip # 43. No, it doesn’t need to be 12v. Plenty of N’s start just fine on 6v in below 0* temps as others are telling you. Your battery loses 33 percent of its power when the temperature dips below freezing, and over 50 percent of its power when the temperature falls below zero. A fully charged battery will not freeze until -76°F; however, a fully discharged battery can start to freeze at 32°F. So……keep the battery fully charged!

Clean grounds & battery terminals are always important. Don’t forget to loosen the starter from the block (see tip # 36) and polish the block & all starter mating surfaces w/ sandpaper to insure a good electrical ground.

If you can’t remember the last time you replaced the battery cables, it’s time to do it. Just because the terminals are clean doesn’t mean there is no corrosion under the insulation. And, this is another case where size matters (see tip # 41)

A charged battery, clean grounds & new cables aren’t going to mean much if the tractor needs a tune-up. At a minimum, every fall, remove the cap, check the points for pitting or burning, re-gap them & put a dab of lube on the cam. (BTW…..if you’ve wondered why some folks get years of use out of a set of points…….this is one of the reasons).

Things that aren’t all that important in warm weather become serious when it gets cold…like timing. A few degrees of timing either way at 60 or 70* isn’t likely to result in a “no-start” situation. Well, it can at 10 or 20*. Check the timing!

Distributor gaskets are important on a sidemount & critical on a frontmount. As is the gasket under the coil. Just like with the battery cables….if you can’t remember when you replaced the gaskets, do it this year.

Push the clutch in when you start the engine (tip # 29)

Pull the air cleaner cup & check for ice.

This tip won’t make it start easier, but it will make it run better: turn the main jet out ½ to 1 full turn for cold weather operating. Cold air is denser so you need a richer mixture.

While each N has its own starting sequence, none of them will start well by just yanking out the choke rod & holding it out for 5 or 10 seconds while the engine cranks. This is a gravity fuel system on a low compression engine; it is easily flooded by too much choke.

Try this:

Key on, gas on 2 full turns, clutch in, 3/4 throttle, press the starter button. Let it crank for at least 3 - 4 seconds before you pull the choke rod. Then, don't hold it out for more than 2 or 3 seconds.

If you find out it will not start w/o excessive choking, you have problems.

If you flood it, the plugs are fouled & it will be it next to impossible to start. Replace the plugs. You don't need to toss them; heat the tips for a few seconds w/ a propane torch to burn off the invisible spark-robbing deposits from today's additive filled gasoline........or wash them in lacquer thinner.

Folks who live in places a lot colder than I do here in VA will argue about battery blankets or magnetic oil pan heaters as compared to lower radiator hose heaters or dipstick heaters. I can’t offer a personal observation; the only thing I’ve ever used to heat an engine was a 100w light bulb laid against the intake manifold. Freeze plug heaters are difficult to find for N’s because of the limited space in the water jacket. Magnetic oil pan heaters on the intake manifold will help as well.

While water in gas today is unusual because of all the ethanol, it’s not unheard of. The problem stems from what’s called ‘phase separation’ in the gasoline. The alcohol binds to the water & it settles in the bottom of your tank. The way to mitigate that is to keep the tank FULL. Less air means less moisture in the tank for the alcohol to absorb. If you’re lucky enough to live in a state where you can buy ethanol free gas (and it does not require a bank loan to do it) then add alcohol to the gasoline. (e.g., “HEET”) Otherwise, the 10% ethanol in the gas is more than enough to deal w/ the water.

Lastly.....

If you do decide to convert it to 12v & add EI, get the tractor running on 6v & points FIRST, then do the 12v conversion BEFORE you do the EI conversion. After it's 12v, let it run on points for a while to make sure you did the conversion correctly.
75 Tips
 
not morning but tuesday afternoon. about 5 degrees inside the garage no heater on anything. 6v naa turned over fine; caught on a couple of cylinders; lightly feathered the choke until all 4 were hitting then left it to warm up. then of course ran it long enough to get thourougly warmed up. (about half the radioator blocked with cardboard.)
 
Gunny.......why do you have a lower hoze heater? Itzschur carbie that needs the heat. Me? I'd stick/hang a 60wt trouble lite next to the carbie fer about 1/2-hr. The very act of carburetion, sucks heat from the air.

Yer non-start front mount was FLOODED by you. The drill is; ignition switch ON, 2-turns on glass bowl knob, 2-rumpa-rumpas and QUICK pull on yer spring loaded choke knobie. Should start unless you FLOODED yer sparkies. Recommend AutoLite 437's gapped 0.025". Don't throw yer FLOODED sparkies away, just clean'n'dry them, one-atta-time in HOT running engine. And save'um fer the NEXT time. (and there will be a NEXT time)

You ask......"Now, I'm thinking about a 12-volt conversion & EI, would either of these help?"......NO!!!....the weird 4-nipple front mount is NOT conducive to EI. Ain't room fer it inside the dizzy like the 5-nipple side mount. 12-volts on a 6-volt starter really spins and can help start a worn low compression engine. Ford specs: 90psi min. FYI new rebuilt 8N engine is about 125psi. Most good runnin' 8N's test about 110psi. And NO, you do NOT haffta change yer 6-volt starter to 12-volt starter.

You do know yer weird 4-nipple front mount is designed to be removed from the tractor and have the points (0.015") set/adjusted on the kitchen table, don't you? Just un-snapple yer capple and letter dangle. Remove the 2-bolts and walk. Installation is a reversal of the removal ...except... finger start the 2-bolts and install yer rotor. Now rotate yer rotor until the OFF-SET tang fits the OFF-SET slot in the camshaft. Now tighten yer 2-bolts and re-snapple yer capple. Remember to "polish" the INVISIBLE corrosion from between the points (0.015") after installation. I use a clean $1-bill. Just insert between the points and pull. Iff'n yer really cheap, tear a strip from HEAVY brown paper grocery sack and use that. ........HTH, Dell yer self-appointed sparkie-meister
 
10* here this morning in Old Church VA (about 15 miles NE of Richmond) Too cold for me. The only thing that needed starting this morning was the 2012 Toyota pickup to get me down to the road & back for the newspaper. If it wasn't for getting the paper & feeding the chickens, this southern boy would stay inside until it gets above 40*!

All 4 6v 8N's & the 6v 29 Ford will start & run just fine because they are all under cover, well maintained & on battery maintainers. Same w/ the 12v 740. A few years ago, just for S&G's, I went out to see if they would all start at 8 or 9*. They did. No need for any more experiments!
75 Tips
 
Dell when I use the hose heater it transfers to much of the engine It spins faster, and definitely starts easier. Makes all the difference between starting and not starting.
 
(quoted from post at 10:30:13 01/08/15) Well, its -9 here in SW Michigan and I decided before leaving for work to start the 2N and use the rear blade to clear the drive of snow(only 3-4 inches here right now). Was pleased with how well it started and ran. Just finished restoration on it late fall, and never having a tractor on the farm with 3 point, I dont know how we went so long without it.
Anyway, the 6v system is very well capable of working in sub zero temps, just need to keep it maintained.
Calling for more snow tonight, so it will get a workout the next couple days.

Corey

It's single digits here this morning and everything I have is 12V except for the two N's and neither of them will start - they are both in various stages of assembly/disassembly. ;-)

All of the 12V cars, trucks, and tractors started immediately except for my 5 year old Kubota lawn tractor. It wouldn't start because it currently has a 0V battery in it :roll:

I am about to run the other Kubota and a jug of diesel up to a big brush pile I have on the hill behind the house. Bitter cold, no wind, sunny, and a light snow cover - perfect day for a bonfire.....

TOH
 
Dell,
Thanks for the info! I've read and reread your advice maybe a dozen or more times. Som'tum you cut & paste? (lol). The lower hose heater came with her when I purchasd her.

Yea, I figured I had flooded it. But in removing the plugs for drying & checking for spark, I found #4 plug like this.

mvphoto14724.jpg


Not a very good pic, but you can see the crud (oily hard substance) fowling the plug. Not sure what is causing this, flooding it? I did check for spark, it was good after I cleaned the plug. She STILL wouldn't start!

I'd like to get her running and starting well enough till spring arrives, then I can dig into her and do whatever is needed.

Gunny, in Iowa
 
If you are certain you are into this tractor for the long haul then yes it makes sense to convert.
You will ultimately have less cost and less maintenance.
If you are looking at this tractor as a stepping stone and maybe get something newer someday then fix what you have and let the next guy make that decision.
The best thing I didn't do was get caught up in an N and way over spend on it. I always got my money back as I traded up.
Now, I would not go back to 6 volts or points for anything.
 
Yesterday,my '41 9n,6v+g started easily at 9* and ran well,warmed until coolant flowed into the radiator,then about 5 minutes more. That's about all I want to stay out in the cold wind. lha
 
Mine fired right up. 3*F. No heater, no charger but housed.
It took about a half hour of running before it would lift the
3 pt hitch with a back blade though!
 
I am into my 8N for the long haul. I'm retired and 72 years young. Probably will never need another tractor, besides my NH GT22 mower.

Forgot about the battery loosing power when it's cold & below zero. I use 10% ethanol in all my engines. A couple of things I'm trying in the morning:

Light bulb on the (intake manifold?) or (carburetor?) or both?
Ensure battery is fully charged (on maintenance now).
If it doesn't start, I might try jumping it with 12v. I know, I reread 75 tips often!

Lots of good advice on this thread! Thank you, all.

Gunny, in Iowa.
 

I drank some V8 juice does that count... I get a laugh outta Y'all 6V nuts b"N surprised yer 6V tractor started...

It takes amps not volts to do the work I did not know a 6V battery was such a big looser....
 
(quoted from post at 21:38:36 01/08/15)
I drank some V8 juice does that count... I get a laugh outta Y'all 6V nuts b"N surprised yer 6V tractor started...

It takes amps not volts to do the work I did not know a 6V battery was such a big looser....
V8 juice does not count, you must drink the Kool-Aid!
I was not at all surprised that my 6V tractor started.
I expected it to. It does every time.
By the way, my 12V tractor with a voltmeter started fine too.

You say it takes Amps, not Volts to do the work. Agreed.
But an Amp meter is worthless and a Volt meter is priceless?
The voltage drop test you have been talking about recently is
a great test, but you say it only works under load, meaning
there has to be current flowing, i.e. amperage. Right?

Don't get me wrong here, I agree with most everything you post.
It's just that sometimes the way you say it is confusing to me.

My brother's diesel Kubota wouldn't start today without being
plugged in, but my 70 year old Fords did. Had to pull the 'bota
out of the way to get one of the Fords out of the barn.
Pulled it with the 1941 9N 6V. Now THAT's priceless! LOL
 

Volts/amps the issue is most are only looking at it from there inexperienced point of view...

They preach a dash mounted amp meter is the holly grail... Well its not but to make up for there inexperience they make up chit...

If you tie to of those 6V bats together they make for one ell of a sizz wheel...
 
My JD 50 came from the factory 12V.
Two 6V batteries connected together just like that under the seat.
Long since replaced with a single 12V battery though.
Battery technology now makes one 12V as good as two 6V's
were in 1953. Or, at least good enough to cut the cost in half.
 
-1 here this morning in western NC, Wednesday night on Grandfather Mountain the wind chill was reported at -50!!!
 
Gunny.......yer picture of carbon fouled sparkie is NORMAL. That is WHY sparkies are replaced. Back in the old days, they used an air pressure sand-blaster to clean the CARBON. Now days, just replace the plug. Recommend AutoLite 437's gapped 0.025". BTW use ROUND sparkie tool with WIRES fer the gap measurement. Never trust the sparkie gap rite outta the box, ALWAYS check'em.

Next question, should I "file" the tip and arm? Well iff'n yer desperate. Sparkies like to jump from SHARPE corners. Note that the center conductor becomes "rounded" with age. So yeah, square it up. Yer N-Sparkies need all the help they can gitt.

Last question, did FLOODING cause the CARBON fouling? ...NO... but FLOODING will cause them lazy sparkies to take the short cut down the side of the center insulator to the shell (ground) 'stedda JUMPIN' the GAP .......HTH, Dell, yer self-appointed sparkie-meister
 
(quoted from post at 23:37:15 01/08/15)
Volts/amps the issue is most are only looking at it from there inexperienced point of view...

They preach a dash mounted amp meter is the holly grail... Well its not but to make up for there inexperience they make up chit...

If you tie to of those 6V bats together they make for one ell of a sizz wheel...

pretty good ballast too. lol
WHduals_zpsc6a413a5.jpg


as far as the debate, there are so many variables...everyone can be truthful and right.
stored indoors or outdoors, heated or unheated, shed-door or no door, tarp-no tarp, preheaters, tenders, etc.
tractor last started yesterday...or last month..
and on and on...
I have all combos of 6-12-points-EI here.
Will they all start in the cold?...yes they will.
But, below zero, will I climb on that 6v-points one that has been tarped outside without running since Thanksgiving? Yer joking right?
I'll go to my unheated shop and fire up the 12v-EI one that's parked in there.
When my fingers are frozen......easier is better
 
(quoted from post at 10:21:12 01/09/15) Not quite apples vs apples Royce.
Your brother's Kubota is a diesel and we all know they start much harder than even a 6V gasser will.

Another one of the great diesel myths.

Starting depends greatly on the diesel. Many older (1960's era) diesels were a royal PITA in even moderately cold weather. I have no problem starting my 1983 Kubby (glow plugs and decompress starting assist) in single digits. At those temps it usually has to be cranked 2-3 times but if the battery is up it always starts. If for some reason the battery is flat (some idjit killed the engine and left the key on ;-) ) a booster start really kicks it off fast. My neighbor's Volkswagon TDI starts as easy as any gasoline car. As do most similarly sized modern diesels.

TOH
 
I am glad I did not have to kick start my old Harley yesterday morning.... It was 30 when I made my walk to the shop this morn,,, after a sidle digit Thursday morn and the high 28, 30 felt good...
 
Agreed it depends on the era of diesel.
Not a myth here on my 60s/70s diesels tho.
They don't have glow plugs. Just a 'thermostart' heater in the manifold - heater with a bimetal valve that trickles fuel into the intake manifold and ignites.
Helps but not like glow plugs.
With the block heater plugged in for an hour or two they'll fire right off.
+7° this morning and not plugged in?
Maaaybee with the thermostart.
Even with a big 4DLT battery
[i:654c4848f0]Battery Cold Cranking Amps @ 0 Degrees F : 850
Battery Cranking Amps @ 32 Degrees F : 1,005[/i:654c4848f0]
 
My neighbor's Volkswagon TDI starts as easy as any gasoline car. As do most similarly sized modern diesels.

I'll confirm this - my '13 Beetle TDi fired right up last winter in -25°F weather.

My '99 F-250 Powerstroke needs some time on the block heater when it's zero or below.

I can well imagine the older diesels really have a time of it…

Back on topic, my '50 frontmount 6v fired on the second try in -2° weather a few days ago when I plowed the driveways. It had been sitting for 3-4 weeks and needed to refill the carb…

es
 
(quoted from post at 13:15:21 01/09/15) Agreed it depends on the era of diesel.
Not a myth here on my 60s/70s diesels tho.
They don't have glow plugs. Just a 'thermostart' heater in the manifold - heater with a bimetal valve that trickles fuel into the intake manifold and ignites.
Helps but not like glow plugs.
With the block heater plugged in for an hour or two they'll fire right off.
+7° this morning and not plugged in?
Maaaybee with the thermostart.
Even with a big 4DLT battery
[i:f42dcdfd70]Battery Cold Cranking Amps @ 0 Degrees F : 850
Battery Cranking Amps @ 32 Degrees F : 1,005[/i:f42dcdfd70]

Here are a couple "entertaining" videos to demonstrate that all diesels are not created equal - especially when it comes to cold starts. Keep in mind you are looking at 10+ year old technology and both started at -20 without any assistance from an electric outlet.

[u:f42dcdfd70]Dodge Cummins Cold Start @-20[/u:f42dcdfd70]

[u:f42dcdfd70]Ford Power Stroke Cold Start @-20[/u:f42dcdfd70]

TOH

PS> I am not bashing Power Strokes - it just is what it is ;-)
 
Well, Dell was right on! I put a 100w bulb on the carb for about 45 minutes. Turned the gas on 2 full turns, climbed into the seat, pushed the clutch down, said to myself, " 1 2 3 pull choke 1 2 release choke ", then turned key on and pushed the starter. She didn't take but ONE rumpa, and she fired right up!

The 3-point began to lift almost immediately. After she warmed up a little, the oil pressure dropped from 35 to 10. I plowed a little snow WITHOUT chains. She sure slips a lot! I have chains, their going on tomorrow!

Thanks everyone! Sure appreciate the experts advice and help.

Gunny, in Iowa
 
I drove a friends Dodge for a couple of weeks while my Chevy was in the body shop. Had forgotten about that. It started pretty good in the cold though not as well as the one in the video.
As for cold start videos on youtube I've wasted quite a few hours watching old, cold beasts come to life. Everything from ships to tanks to dozers to generators.
Old piston engine trains are some of the best.
Heres a good one.
 
Was down to 6 degrees this morning. For the hell of it I tried to start up ol' Samantha Jean. and figured that I would let her run a bit.
Started right up with a quick pull of the choke.

The Low Viscosity Napa Syn Gard Hyd fluid that I changed to last week had my 3 pt immediately working. And the front vane pump was not squealing either.
 
(quoted from post at 17:41:14 01/09/15) I drove a friends Dodge for a couple of weeks while my Chevy was in the body shop. Had forgotten about that. It started pretty good in the cold though not as well as the one in the video.
As for cold start videos on youtube I've wasted quite a few hours watching old, cold beasts come to life. Everything from ships to tanks to dozers to generators.
Old piston engine trains are some of the best.
Heres a good one.

I think it needs new glow plugs !!!!!

TOH
 
"Not quite apples vs apples"

No it's not, but when you need a running tractor its worth noting.
I didn't try any of my hand crank Farmalls either! LOL
 
(quoted from post at 07:51:07 01/08/15) Im just across the pond from you and it hesitates but it makes a world of difference if I plug in the lower hose heater for an hour or so. I also leave a battery maintainer on.

I am Central Wisc as well. We have seen -15 and -18 and then a slight warm up. My tractor is outside under a roof but no walls. It started up in about -1 temps but that was after the -15 and -35 wind chill. Don't get me wrong, it barely started and then the power steering pump was whining until it warmed up. To each his own and my "own" wouldn't be without 12 volt.

BD
WI

c3818.jpg
 
(quoted from post at 11:02:29 01/09/15)
(quoted from post at 13:15:21 01/09/15) Agreed it depends on the era of diesel.
Not a myth here on my 60s/70s diesels tho.
They don't have glow plugs. Just a 'thermostart' heater in the manifold - heater with a bimetal valve that trickles fuel into the intake manifold and ignites.
Helps but not like glow plugs.
With the block heater plugged in for an hour or two they'll fire right off.
+7° this morning and not plugged in?
Maaaybee with the thermostart.
Even with a big 4DLT battery
[i:86ecc8d204]Battery Cold Cranking Amps @ 0 Degrees F : 850
Battery Cranking Amps @ 32 Degrees F : 1,005[/i:86ecc8d204]

Here are a couple "entertaining" videos to demonstrate that all diesels are not created equal - especially when it comes to cold starts. Keep in mind you are looking at 10+ year old technology and both started at -20 without any assistance from an electric outlet.

[u:86ecc8d204]Dodge Cummins Cold Start @-20[/u:86ecc8d204]

[u:86ecc8d204]Ford Power Stroke Cold Start @-20[/u:86ecc8d204]

TOH

PS> I am not bashing Power Strokes - it just is what it is ;-)

I'm not going to defend the Ford at all.

The Dodge I call BS on. I know at least a dozen people with the Cummins powered Dodge pickups. None of them start like that at -20 without the block heater being plugged in about 4 hours or the engine still warm from the last time it was run. Last couple in those kind of temps I was there when they were started dead cold they sounded a lot like that Ford and darn sure took a lot more cranking to start than the dodge Vid. Did anyone besides me notice that the windshield on the dodge was free of ice and the Ford wasn't?

Rick
 
(quoted from post at 00:00:24 01/11/15)
(quoted from post at 11:02:29 01/09/15)
(quoted from post at 13:15:21 01/09/15) Agreed it depends on the era of diesel.
Not a myth here on my 60s/70s diesels tho.
They don't have glow plugs. Just a 'thermostart' heater in the manifold - heater with a bimetal valve that trickles fuel into the intake manifold and ignites.
Helps but not like glow plugs.
With the block heater plugged in for an hour or two they'll fire right off.
+7° this morning and not plugged in?
Maaaybee with the thermostart.
Even with a big 4DLT battery
[i:332e07e184]Battery Cold Cranking Amps @ 0 Degrees F : 850
Battery Cranking Amps @ 32 Degrees F : 1,005[/i:332e07e184]

Here are a couple "entertaining" videos to demonstrate that all diesels are not created equal - especially when it comes to cold starts. Keep in mind you are looking at 10+ year old technology and both started at -20 without any assistance from an electric outlet.

[u:332e07e184]Dodge Cummins Cold Start @-20[/u:332e07e184]

[u:332e07e184]Ford Power Stroke Cold Start @-20[/u:332e07e184]

TOH

PS> I am not bashing Power Strokes - it just is what it is ;-)

I'm not going to defend the Ford at all.

The Dodge I call BS on. I know at least a dozen people with the Cummins powered Dodge pickups. None of them start like that at -20 without the block heater being plugged in about 4 hours or the engine still warm from the last time it was run. Last couple in those kind of temps I was there when they were started dead cold they sounded a lot like that Ford and darn sure took a lot more cranking to start than the dodge Vid. Did anyone besides me notice that the windshield on the dodge was free of ice and the Ford wasn't?

Rick
Why let a few facts ruin a good story Rick? :wink:
 
(quoted from post at 00:10:49 01/11/15)
(quoted from post at 00:00:24 01/11/15)
(quoted from post at 11:02:29 01/09/15)
(quoted from post at 13:15:21 01/09/15) Agreed it depends on the era of diesel.
Not a myth here on my 60s/70s diesels tho.
They don't have glow plugs. Just a 'thermostart' heater in the manifold - heater with a bimetal valve that trickles fuel into the intake manifold and ignites.
Helps but not like glow plugs.
With the block heater plugged in for an hour or two they'll fire right off.
+7° this morning and not plugged in?
Maaaybee with the thermostart.
Even with a big 4DLT battery
[i:a8a7302f90]Battery Cold Cranking Amps @ 0 Degrees F : 850
Battery Cranking Amps @ 32 Degrees F : 1,005[/i:a8a7302f90]

Here are a couple "entertaining" videos to demonstrate that all diesels are not created equal - especially when it comes to cold starts. Keep in mind you are looking at 10+ year old technology and both started at -20 without any assistance from an electric outlet.

[u:a8a7302f90]Dodge Cummins Cold Start @-20[/u:a8a7302f90]

[u:a8a7302f90]Ford Power Stroke Cold Start @-20[/u:a8a7302f90]

TOH

PS> I am not bashing Power Strokes - it just is what it is ;-)

I'm not going to defend the Ford at all.

The Dodge I call BS on. I know at least a dozen people with the Cummins powered Dodge pickups. None of them start like that at -20 without the block heater being plugged in about 4 hours or the engine still warm from the last time it was run. Last couple in those kind of temps I was there when they were started dead cold they sounded a lot like that Ford and darn sure took a lot more cranking to start than the dodge Vid. Did anyone besides me notice that the windshield on the dodge was free of ice and the Ford wasn't?

Rick
Why let a few facts ruin a good story Rick? :wink:

I have no dog in the fight but I think most of that was addressed in the very extended discussion that accompanies the video. It may have been rigged or it may be a 100% kosher demonstration. Either way I doubt it is indicative of the [b:a8a7302f90]TYPICAL[/b:a8a7302f90] starting performance of the Cummins - after all it was posted by a self acknowledged Dodge Cummins zealot. Much the same as the "my 6V 8N tractor started with one rumpa @-20" posts shared here. :roll:

TOH
 
(quoted from post at 11:11:38 01/11/15)
(quoted from post at 00:10:49 01/11/15)
(quoted from post at 00:00:24 01/11/15)
(quoted from post at 11:02:29 01/09/15)
(quoted from post at 13:15:21 01/09/15) Agreed it depends on the era of diesel.
Not a myth here on my 60s/70s diesels tho.
They don't have glow plugs. Just a 'thermostart' heater in the manifold - heater with a bimetal valve that trickles fuel into the intake manifold and ignites.
Helps but not like glow plugs.
With the block heater plugged in for an hour or two they'll fire right off.
+7° this morning and not plugged in?
Maaaybee with the thermostart.
Even with a big 4DLT battery
[i:d0e6ab1fc3]Battery Cold Cranking Amps @ 0 Degrees F : 850
Battery Cranking Amps @ 32 Degrees F : 1,005[/i:d0e6ab1fc3]

Here are a couple "entertaining" videos to demonstrate that all diesels are not created equal - especially when it comes to cold starts. Keep in mind you are looking at 10+ year old technology and both started at -20 without any assistance from an electric outlet.

[u:d0e6ab1fc3]Dodge Cummins Cold Start @-20[/u:d0e6ab1fc3]

[u:d0e6ab1fc3]Ford Power Stroke Cold Start @-20[/u:d0e6ab1fc3]

TOH

PS> I am not bashing Power Strokes - it just is what it is ;-)

I'm not going to defend the Ford at all.

The Dodge I call BS on. I know at least a dozen people with the Cummins powered Dodge pickups. None of them start like that at -20 without the block heater being plugged in about 4 hours or the engine still warm from the last time it was run. Last couple in those kind of temps I was there when they were started dead cold they sounded a lot like that Ford and darn sure took a lot more cranking to start than the dodge Vid. Did anyone besides me notice that the windshield on the dodge was free of ice and the Ford wasn't?

Rick
Why let a few facts ruin a good story Rick? :wink:

I have no dog in the fight but I think most of that was addressed in the very extended discussion that accompanies the video. It may have been rigged or it may be a 100% kosher demonstration. Either way I doubt it is indicative of the [b:d0e6ab1fc3]TYPICAL[/b:d0e6ab1fc3] starting performance of the Cummins - after all it was posted by a self acknowledged Dodge Cummins zealot. Much the same as the "my 6V 8N tractor started with one rumpa @-20" posts shared here. :roll:

TOH

The Sun is a wonderful thing.....
everybody in the North uses that trick.
Gotta park where the nose faces the South.
Keep the snow off the hood.
Afternoon on a sunny zero degree day...it'll start like summer.
 
If you are going to all the trouble to fix an old *N or whatever up. Why start it in the cold without some sort of Block/lower radiator hose heater. Using 00 size battery cables on both + &- helps a great deal too. A large portion of engine wear occurs at start up. Furthermore, don't be tied to MP 80w-90 gear lube. A good brand of Universal Fluid has the same or better Lubricity as the old gear lubes. I've been using it in my 8n's, NAA's, Farmalls etc for 20 years. Plug it in throw a tarp over it and let it warm up. A lot of people today have it in gear before the starter qwits spinning and wonder why this POJ wont run right.
 

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