I just got my NAA all back together (put a head and gasket on it). I rebuilt the carb, new plug wires, cleaned the points.I adjusted the main jet all the way in the out 2 turns and the idle screw all the way in then out 1 turn. I adjusted all the valves at .015 at tdc 1-2-4-3. I started it and i started backfiring through the carb and when i idle up it does it even more. Anybody had this problem? Did i do something wrong? This tractor is starting to get on my nerves. New intake/exhaust gaskets also.
- Thread starter fordfx413
- Start date
Tall T
Well-known Member
Backfiring through the carb can mean that at the time of the explosion, the intake valve isn't fully closed; i.e., the timing is too advanced.
I guess you know that the tappet clearance is .014 to .016, HOT,
so better to set at a loose .016 initially to allow for expansion
while warming up the engine to do a hot setting.
I hope you meant TDC on the Compression stroke.
Quickest way
with these valves OPEN
#1 Exhaust and #3 Intake . . . Adjust #2 Intake and #4 Exhaust
#1 Intake and #2 Exhaust . . . Adjust #3 Exhaust and #4 Intake
#2 intake and #4 Exhaust . . . Adjust #1 Exhaust and #3 Intake
#3 Exhaust and #4 Intake . . . Adjust #1 Intake and #2 Exhaust
T
I guess you know that the tappet clearance is .014 to .016, HOT,
so better to set at a loose .016 initially to allow for expansion
while warming up the engine to do a hot setting.
I hope you meant TDC on the Compression stroke.
Quickest way
with these valves OPEN
#1 Exhaust and #3 Intake . . . Adjust #2 Intake and #4 Exhaust
#1 Intake and #2 Exhaust . . . Adjust #3 Exhaust and #4 Intake
#2 intake and #4 Exhaust . . . Adjust #1 Exhaust and #3 Intake
#3 Exhaust and #4 Intake . . . Adjust #1 Intake and #2 Exhaust
T
I have good compression in all cylinders. About 80 or above. I also pressurized each cylinder with compressed air while they were on compresson and no leaks out the intake. They installed the vlaves out of the old head. Did I not adjust the valves correctly? I adjusted #1 on compresson rotated the engine so #2 was on compresson and so on with #4 and then #3.
Tall T
Well-known Member
No, with that method, referred to as "when the valves are rocking" you should be O.K. as long as you were top dead certain of the stroke. When you see the spring pressure on the intake valve being relaxed and the spring rising you know that the piston is on the way up on the compression stroke.
The other method I showed you is easier cause you only have to watch the valve springs compress as the valves open so you don't have to worry about TDC. When a spring is fully compressed, a valve is fully open.
The other method I showed you is easier cause you only have to watch the valve springs compress as the valves open so you don't have to worry about TDC. When a spring is fully compressed, a valve is fully open.
Tall T
Well-known Member
When #1 Intake is fully closed at TDC and ready to fire, that rocker arm needs .015 clearance.
At that same time, #4 Intake and #3 Exhaust springs should be fully compressed; i.e., no rocker arm clearance at all because those valves need to be wide open.
So if you have rocker arm clearance on #4 INTAKE, then that's a major faux pas because when #1 Intake is closed at TDC, spring standing tall, then #4 INTAKE should be wide open . . . spring compressed.
with these valves OPEN . . .
i.e., roll the engine over until #1 exhaust valve spring and #3 Intake spring are fully compressed and then you can confidently adjust #2 Intake and #4 Exhaust.
#1 Exhaust and #3 Intake both Open . . . Adjust #2 Intake and #4 Exhaust
#1 Intake and #2 Exhaust both Open . . . Adjust #3 Exhaust and #4 Intake
#2 intake and #4 Exhaust both open . . . Adjust #1 Exhaust and #3 Intake
#3 Exhaust and #4 Intake both open . . . Adjust #1 Intake and #2 Exhaust
Ford FX
to simplify (if that is confusing):
In the order of firing and crank rotation . . .
With #1 Intake fully open . . . . adjust Exh3 and Int4
with #2 Intake fully open . . . . adjust Exh1 and Int3
With #4 Intake fully open . . . . adjust Exh2 and Int1
With #3 Intake fully open . . . . adjust Exh4 and Int2
At that same time, #4 Intake and #3 Exhaust springs should be fully compressed; i.e., no rocker arm clearance at all because those valves need to be wide open.
So if you have rocker arm clearance on #4 INTAKE, then that's a major faux pas because when #1 Intake is closed at TDC, spring standing tall, then #4 INTAKE should be wide open . . . spring compressed.
with these valves OPEN . . .
i.e., roll the engine over until #1 exhaust valve spring and #3 Intake spring are fully compressed and then you can confidently adjust #2 Intake and #4 Exhaust.
#1 Exhaust and #3 Intake both Open . . . Adjust #2 Intake and #4 Exhaust
#1 Intake and #2 Exhaust both Open . . . Adjust #3 Exhaust and #4 Intake
#2 intake and #4 Exhaust both open . . . Adjust #1 Exhaust and #3 Intake
#3 Exhaust and #4 Intake both open . . . Adjust #1 Intake and #2 Exhaust
Ford FX
to simplify (if that is confusing):
In the order of firing and crank rotation . . .
With #1 Intake fully open . . . . adjust Exh3 and Int4
with #2 Intake fully open . . . . adjust Exh1 and Int3
With #4 Intake fully open . . . . adjust Exh2 and Int1
With #3 Intake fully open . . . . adjust Exh4 and Int2
[b:e267833c8a][i:e267833c8a]Sounds to me, what Zane ask!!!!!
I got a felling that he started #1 plug wire, in the wrong hole of the cap....then went with the firing order, on the other three wires.!!!????
He got the firing order right ......just in the wrong cap holes!!!
BTW;...if that is the case...dollars to donuts, the carb floats are done in, due to all the backfiring into the carb!!!~ :shock:
MWAG !!
Gary[/i:e267833c8a][/b:e267833c8a]
I got a felling that he started #1 plug wire, in the wrong hole of the cap....then went with the firing order, on the other three wires.!!!????
He got the firing order right ......just in the wrong cap holes!!!
BTW;...if that is the case...dollars to donuts, the carb floats are done in, due to all the backfiring into the carb!!!~ :shock:
MWAG !!
Gary[/i:e267833c8a][/b:e267833c8a]
The cap has a number one marked I put that plug wire to number #1 the rotor was also pointing toward it and i had it on tdc compresson. Then went to #2 hole ( the next one ccw) and put that to number 2 plug. then #4 and finally #3. The Rotor is also loose on the shaft I can rotate it some. would that make a difference?
b:72b48a55b0][i:72b48a55b0]
SO....I was wrong with my WAG.....sounds like ya got that right OK!!
The rotor should not move on the shaft.....Wondering if you are missing the clip on the rotor, that holds the rotor tight to the shaft????
If the rotor is loose on the shaft.....it cannot fire when it is supposed to, which is throwing the timing off. That can/will cause backfiring!!!
Another WAG... :lol: :lol:
Gary[/i:72b48a55b0][/b:72b48a55b0]
Help me understand that Bob.
If he can "rotate the rotor on the shaft", wouldn't that affect
spark timing the same as rotating the distributor housing?
I wouldn't bet that it fixed his issue, but it's worth fixing.
A loose rotor can break the rotor, crack the distributor cap, etc.
If he can "rotate the rotor on the shaft", wouldn't that affect
spark timing the same as rotating the distributor housing?
I wouldn't bet that it fixed his issue, but it's worth fixing.
A loose rotor can break the rotor, crack the distributor cap, etc.
b:cd77ffa18b][i:cd77ffa18b]
NNP;
Dang-it......I read his answer to me, and Never read, where he installed the firing order CCW!!!!!!
And me sitting here, with a pic. of the NAA/JUBE wiring diagram, right in front of me.!!!! :twisted:
Gary
:roll: [/i:cd77ffa18b][/b:cd77ffa18b]
Tall T
Well-known Member
NNP;
Dang-it......I read his answer to me, and Never read, where he installed the firing order CCW!!!!!!
And me sitting here, with a pic. of the NAA/JUBE wiring diagram, right in front of me.!!!! :twisted:
Gary
DOH!! I missed that CCW too!!
Well FordFx,
I really hope your troubles are that simply resolved and that your worried mind is relieved and you can enjoy the fruits of your labors.
Terry
Dang-it......I read his answer to me, and Never read, where he installed the firing order CCW!!!!!!
And me sitting here, with a pic. of the NAA/JUBE wiring diagram, right in front of me.!!!! :twisted:
Gary
DOH!! I missed that CCW too!!
Well FordFx,
I really hope your troubles are that simply resolved and that your worried mind is relieved and you can enjoy the fruits of your labors.
Terry
Hobo,NC
Well-known Member
- Location
- Sanford, NC
By the time I fiddle around with your technique I can adjust them at TDC compression stroke one cylinder at a time (like he did) and have them set dead nutz were it counts.... There will be no question they are set correctly... I have tried to adjust many a engine's valves by a arrangement listed in the repair manual as you suggest if I had a issue I questioned it and had to reset the valves. I always found a adjustment in question so don't play that game anymore...
Tall T
Well-known Member
Hobo,
What took you so long to blow your mean spirited, know-it-all horn!
Pardon me while I puke!
You cleverly wrote:
"fiddle around" and "play that game" and "where it counts" and "dead nutz accurate" . . .
All your words are designed to have it appear as though I just got off the boat and copied and just pasted this "time wasting" and inaccurate method from a manual, with no experience to back anything up. Using the method in the pic below below on my 6 cylinder engines in the past I can set the clearances quickly before the engine has a chance to cool down, it is so fast. . . and THAT is precisely why it is accurate. And what the heck gives you the nerve to suggest that I never double checked and that if I did double check, which I of course do, that I found discrepancies. And about your method being the only accurate one, you are just plain full of it as far as I am concerned.
I put this on a piece of cardboard 35 years ago.
Here's something else for your competitive spirit to use so as to undermine.
Please spare me the duplicitous mind games; i.e., that I'm thin skinned or that you meant no disrespect or that sleazy one of suggesting that I must have been looking to get PO'd.
What took you so long to blow your mean spirited, know-it-all horn!
Pardon me while I puke!
You cleverly wrote:
"fiddle around" and "play that game" and "where it counts" and "dead nutz accurate" . . .
All your words are designed to have it appear as though I just got off the boat and copied and just pasted this "time wasting" and inaccurate method from a manual, with no experience to back anything up. Using the method in the pic below below on my 6 cylinder engines in the past I can set the clearances quickly before the engine has a chance to cool down, it is so fast. . . and THAT is precisely why it is accurate. And what the heck gives you the nerve to suggest that I never double checked and that if I did double check, which I of course do, that I found discrepancies. And about your method being the only accurate one, you are just plain full of it as far as I am concerned.
I put this on a piece of cardboard 35 years ago.
Here's something else for your competitive spirit to use so as to undermine.
Please spare me the duplicitous mind games; i.e., that I'm thin skinned or that you meant no disrespect or that sleazy one of suggesting that I must have been looking to get PO'd.
Hobo,NC
Well-known Member
- Location
- Sanford, NC
I have wrenched for over 40 years I make my own mind up its called experience look into that... There are some folks I value there opinion and allot I don't...
I have one question can you tell me were the lifter is sitting at on the cam on your chart when you make your adjustment are is it a estimated guess :?:
I don't think my recommendation is a estimated guess do you.... What is a extra 5 min. of your time worth... All this fiddling around may have worked on a new engine its not new anymore there is one place on the cam it that counts were do you spec it is...
I have one question can you tell me were the lifter is sitting at on the cam on your chart when you make your adjustment are is it a estimated guess :?:
I don't think my recommendation is a estimated guess do you.... What is a extra 5 min. of your time worth... All this fiddling around may have worked on a new engine its not new anymore there is one place on the cam it that counts were do you spec it is...
Tall T
Well-known Member
You're a regular riot Alice! 
Lay out your own darned 6 cyl camshaft
[b:bbc7a0d456]which is exactly how I made that chart years ago,[/b:bbc7a0d456]
point #1 Intake to the sky and answer your own dumb trap question as to where the lifters sit
on Intake 6 lobe and Exhaust 4.
Lay out your own darned 6 cyl camshaft
[b:bbc7a0d456]which is exactly how I made that chart years ago,[/b:bbc7a0d456]
point #1 Intake to the sky and answer your own dumb trap question as to where the lifters sit
on Intake 6 lobe and Exhaust 4.
Hobo,NC
Well-known Member
- Location
- Sanford, NC
(quoted from post at 08:05:02 12/03/14) You're a regular riot Alice!
Lay out your own darned 6 cyl camshaft
[b:8c6474b858]which is exactly how I made that chart years ago,[/b:8c6474b858]
point #1 Intake to the sky and answer your own dumb trap question as to where the lifters sit
on Intake 6 lobe and Exhaust 4.
There is no need for a fancy chart to set them at TDC
Ncorrigible
Member
I am not Bob, but I understand what he is saying.
The spark timing is based on when the points open
and close. The rotor flopping around does not
affect when the spark occurs, it does affect
whether or not the spark is transferred to the
correct plug in an efficient manner. You are
correct that it is a mechanical problem that
should be corrected, Bob is correct that it is
not a timing problem.
The spark timing is based on when the points open
and close. The rotor flopping around does not
affect when the spark occurs, it does affect
whether or not the spark is transferred to the
correct plug in an efficient manner. You are
correct that it is a mechanical problem that
should be corrected, Bob is correct that it is
not a timing problem.
ell, I have seen and actually used the 'chart' method once upon a time & as far as I know?, it worked........however, when finished with the adjustment, I had so little confidence that clearances were correct that I repeated the procedure using the tried & true 'set each cylinder at TDC-comp' method in order to gain that confidence that the job was done correctly. So, as you might guess, my 'saved time' was minimal to say the least.(quoted from post at 09:02:04 12/03/14)(quoted from post at 08:05:02 12/03/14) You're a regular riot Alice!
Lay out your own darned 6 cyl camshaft
[b:9b8cc586ff]which is exactly how I made that chart years ago,[/b:9b8cc586ff]
point #1 Intake to the sky and answer your own dumb trap question as to where the lifters sit
on Intake 6 lobe and Exhaust 4.
There is no need for a fancy chart to set them at TDC
Never went there again. BUT, I say to each party, use whatever you are comfortable/confident with & that there is no need to put upon the rest of the world, 'your way'.
Have a nice day, everyone :!:
Tall T
Well-known Member
It's totally failsafe and quick Jesse.
That's why the Ford engineers put their silly chart on page 39 of the NAA Owners manual. Lay out any camshaft and it is an obviously accurate procedure.
Too bad no one was there at Ford to set those inexperienced engineers straight as Hobo has tried to do with me.
The valve opening method is probably the very method Ford used to set up new factory engines for delivery!!!
Cheers,
Terry
That's why the Ford engineers put their silly chart on page 39 of the NAA Owners manual. Lay out any camshaft and it is an obviously accurate procedure.
Too bad no one was there at Ford to set those inexperienced engineers straight as Hobo has tried to do with me.
The valve opening method is probably the very method Ford used to set up new factory engines for delivery!!!
Cheers,
Terry
Ncorrigible, thank you.
I understand that it will not affect the time that the points open.
I also can see how a loose rotor, if only moving up and down,
would not affect timing. It still seems that if the rotor can rotate
on the shaft as stated, spark would arrive at the plug wire post
later (or less likely earlier) in the rotation of the engine.
No? Maybe not enough difference to make it not run.
I understand that it will not affect the time that the points open.
I also can see how a loose rotor, if only moving up and down,
would not affect timing. It still seems that if the rotor can rotate
on the shaft as stated, spark would arrive at the plug wire post
later (or less likely earlier) in the rotation of the engine.
No? Maybe not enough difference to make it not run.
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