My recent EI experience

Royse

Well-known Member
I debated about posting this because I know its a hot button.
I don't want to drag up that debate, but thought I'd pass on
my recent experience. Good and bad.

I put a new Pertronix EI in a '51 8N 12V on the 8th. (side mount)
Took 15 minutes or so, started right up, set the timing and was done.

On the 12th it died at idle while hooking up an implement.
No spark.

I took the distributor cap off and found the magnetic ring had
separated between the top and bottom halves letting the magnets
fall out. I figure it was just a bad part that slipped by QA.

I called Pertronix, they said that was odd and they would ship
a new one right out that day. Waited longer on hold than it took
for them to say they would fix it. Great customer service, but
the tech support line and time on hold is not toll free.

I put the original points back in so the job could get done.
Still waiting on the new magnetic ring. Probably be here tomorrow.
I may or may not bother to put it back in. I didn't notice a bit of
difference in how the tractor started or ran, but I didn't really
expect to so I may have been pre-disposed to that notion.

I didn't get to try it out in cold weather.
It didn't even snow here until the 15th.

In my short-lived racing days I was always a fan of EI over
"floating" points. I doubt points float much at <2000 RPMs.
 
You know, there are times I have thought EI was the cat's
meow. I have never had any desire to add it to any of the three
distributor tractors around here. I don't have a complaint about
how they run. Two of them I brought home years ago and
haven't even cracked the cap of the distributor. One of them is
a daily use tractor. I'm not sure whether it is because they run
at steady rpm or because they are low rpm, but I haven't ever
bothered with it. I've put them on old cars and loved it.
Eventually it may be the way to go if points keep getting made
cheaper and cheaper.
 
I've got 1 season on my Pertronix EI (out of 10 seasons with the tractor). So far it's been nothing but reliable. Starts up easy and runs very well. Time will tell.
 
I agree the failure rate must be reasonably low.

Trouble is, when one DOES d e f e c a t e the bed, it is without warning, and you have a non-operable machine, unless you have the old point setup at hand or a $$$$ spare EFI.

My worst experience with one, I special-ordered one for a customer's Ford tandem truck with a big gasser V-8 during the off season so it would be dependable for harvest. (It was an IGNITOR II, with matching Pertronix coil.)

The reason for the conversion was that the complicated OEM wiring to the Ford EI box on the firewall had been destroyed and the Pertronix was supposed to be the simple repair.

Everything was done "to spec", and it ran GREAT for the first day or two of harvest, then DIED.

A replacement would have DAYS away, so I put the Ford pickup coil back in the distributor, and connected it up to a GM module mounted on an aluminum plate next to the distributor.

That was YEARS ago, it it was still hauling in the harvest this fall.

And if it DOES fail, the common off-the-shelf parts are available locally.
 
(quoted from post at 05:06:25 11/17/14) I debated about posting this because I know its a hot button.
I don't want to drag up that debate, but thought I'd pass on
my recent experience. Good and bad.

I put a new Pertronix EI in a '51 8N 12V on the 8th. (side mount)
Took 15 minutes or so, started right up, set the timing and was done.

On the 12th it died at idle while hooking up an implement.
No spark.

I took the distributor cap off and found the magnetic ring had
separated between the top and bottom halves letting the magnets
fall out. I figure it was just a bad part that slipped by QA.

I called Pertronix, they said that was odd and they would ship
a new one right out that day. Waited longer on hold than it took
for them to say they would fix it. Great customer service, but
the tech support line and time on hold is not toll free.

I put the original points back in so the job could get done.
Still waiting on the new magnetic ring. Probably be here tomorrow.
I may or may not bother to put it back in. I didn't notice a bit of
difference in how the tractor started or ran, but I didn't really
expect to so I may have been pre-disposed to that notion.

I didn't get to try it out in cold weather.
It didn't even snow here until the 15th.

In my short-lived racing days I was always a fan of EI over
"floating" points. I doubt points float much at <2000 RPMs.

All mine work better than expected life is good... I get mine from Advance Auto Parts they will replace it no questions asked :D I have only returned one I did not like the way it looked out of the box some dufuss had tried to install it and returned it... No questions asked
 
This fall I put EI on a 601 Ford. Still 6 volts. I
went thru 3 sets of points in less than a year -
and not cheap points either - Blue Steak or Napa
brand. No problem installing and so far no
problems. Tractor seems to start easier and with
no choke unless it is really cold (like now). Ps I
kept the poionts set up in the tool box.
 

'52 8N sidemount here. I went to 12v conversion and added the E.I. I have also noticed that it takes lot less choke than when the points were on there. Even when it is cold (35F or so), it only takes about 1/3 of a pull on the choke knob. With points, it would have to be all the way out if that cold.
 
(quoted from post at 02:06:25 11/17/14) I debated about posting this because I know its a hot button.
I don't want to drag up that debate, but thought I'd pass on
my recent experience. Good and bad.

I put a new Pertronix EI in a '51 8N 12V on the 8th. (side mount)
Took 15 minutes or so, started right up, set the timing and was done.

On the 12th it died at idle while hooking up an implement.
No spark.

I took the distributor cap off and found the magnetic ring had
separated between the top and bottom halves letting the magnets
fall out. I figure it was just a bad part that slipped by QA.

I called Pertronix, they said that was odd and they would ship
a new one right out that day. Waited longer on hold than it took
for them to say they would fix it. Great customer service, but
the tech support line and time on hold is not toll free.

I put the original points back in so the job could get done.
Still waiting on the new magnetic ring. Probably be here tomorrow.
I may or may not bother to put it back in. I didn't notice a bit of
difference in how the tractor started or ran, but I didn't really
expect to so I may have been pre-disposed to that notion.

I didn't get to try it out in cold weather.
It didn't even snow here until the 15th.

In my short-lived racing days I was always a fan of EI over
"floating" points. I doubt points float much at <2000 RPMs.

2nd year/20hrs on my ei same brand as the one you got. No problems here yet with it. I did learn the battery can not be low or it won't fire. Out of 3 tractors I started and ran this weekend I didn't notice much difference....as they all have preference on how they start. And its cold here. Think we hit -1 this weekend overnight
 
O'Reilly's also has some decent points,BWD brand. I
have used them for a while,and the last pair lasted
about 4 years. When I changed them,I could have
cleaned them,but just replaced them. lha
 
In the event that you are not aware, few manufacturing companies making consumer products do much QC these days and almost no one does QA.

Dean
 
I bought a new Rigid brand drill/driver about a year ago at home Depot.
Salesman said Rigid has a no questions asked guarantee.
2 weeks later I was driving 3 1/2" deck screws into some tough old douglas fir and it just popped and quit.
I brought it back to the store and they gave me a new one.
11 months of hard use on it now and it's going great.
Moral of the story:
Sometimes you get a bad one right out of the box.
But the drill or ei kit is still a good model.
 
No doubt that you can get "the one bad part" Jerry.
I think that's exactly what I got in this case.
I did not knock the company or the device.
It is a two part plastic case that just came unglued.
I honestly think I could have put the magnets back
in and glued it back together if I got the polarities right.

The tractor is still running just as well on the old
points though and for a whole lot less money.
 
Ive unintentionally started this debate before but I will chime in
this much on this one I would guess somone going through
three sets of points a year has distributor bushing problems. Ei
is a lot more forgiving on this problem because theres nothing
pushing on the distributor shaft anymore. Im not saying it is
"right" but EI will bandaid a worn out distributor for a long time.
 
I have had 2 with mags,no EI and a bunch 6V front
and side mounts. I like a mag start and run 10 11
yrs on them before they quit. When they quit
their done and to the shop. Everything equal a
good strong battery and tuned up they all will do
fine. And for winter a plug in water heater.
Unless like someone I know and your wealthy
enough to have a heated floor shop it doesnt matter it ALL works
well, lol.
 
They appeared to have corrosion on them. The tractor doesn't get used every day. Sometimes sits for a month between starts. The last time I just filed the points. Didn't expect that to last long so I opted for the EI.
 
Corrosion on ignitioin contacts has become more of a problem than it was as cost considerations and lower manufacturing volumes forced design changes.

That said, I have five vintage Fords in the barn, some are rarely used, none have EI, and I always get 3 - 5 years or more from contact sets, even the cheap imported variety.

NEVER use a point file. Rather, burnish the contacts with an IBM card or piece of brown paper bag to remove corrosion.

Dean
 
I was desperate to get the tractor going the day I filed them. I have 10 other vintage Fords all with 6 volt and points. I do not intend to convert any of them to EI.
 
Why not use a point file, if that is what it takes to do the job? Paper/cardaboard will do fine for light corrosion and contaminants, but points pit with use, and a rub down with paper isn't going to do anything to fix that. A swipe or two with a point file and everything is happy for a few more years. I have several sets of point around here that have not been changed for 30 or 40 years, filed numerous times, and work just fine.

I think the "don't file" rule came from point vendors and manufacturers who wanted to sell more points. In these days when good points are expensive and hard to find it makes no sense to throw out a set that can be easily refurbed. I suspect most of us would happier with a set of thrice-filed Blue Streaks than brand new imports.
 
No. The so-called "don't use a point file" rule came from the cost reductions made in contact sets when production volumes declined and material costs increased.

The atmospheric protection platings on modern contact points are extraordinarily thin and very easily removed by a point file.

After the first use of a point file you will find it necessary to clean the contacts just about every time the engine is unstarted for a week or 10 days in anything but very low humidity ambient.

Thirty or 40 year old contact sets are an entirely different matter.

Dean
 
Interesting! I have have been hearing the "don't file" line for as long as I can remember, so I have assumed that if it wasn't true once upon a time, then it must still not be true. I'll have to try filing some new points and see how they do.

I wonder if there is any way to tell fileable points from the newer non-fileable ones? Seems a shame to discard any points these days, that may have miles left in them.
 
Never tried EI in a tractor. Dad changed his 67
F100 over to EI. it lasted about 10 years then
died. That was 97 or 98. dad put points back in
and they were still in it when he sold the old
Ford last month.

As far as dads pickup goes. There was no
difference I could see in starting or fuel
mileage.It took the same amount of choking to
get it started.

Anyone who goes through several sets of
points a year needs a distributor rebuilt or a
rebuilt unit.
When you compare prices of the EI kit to a
rebuilt dist not sure you really save anything.
Your just putting off the rebuilt of your
distributor.

I have three tractors two with distributors.
A Case SC and a FD 9n. I have replaced the
points three times in the case since I bought
it in 1988. I have put one set in the 9n since
I bought it in 99.
The third tractor is a Case SC with Case
magneto. I got the magneto off a DC sitting in
a pasture in 92. I sanded the points and
greased the bearings. Have not touch the
magneto since. It is still working fine.

It really doesn't make since to me to spend
$100 on EI conversions when you can get years
and years of service out of a $20 set of
points.
 
A lot of guys on the N board don't read the other boards so they don't get as much info as is available on many subjects on this website.
There are plenty of people on YT who will disagree with you about points vs EI.
Click on the link below.
Read John T's posts and Jdemaris' post.
Jdemaris is an injector pump man, engine man, electrical, mechanic, hvac, hydraulic, fabricator, home spun machinery designer and mechanical guru extraordinaire.
He is mostly self taught but one of the most brilliant men on this site.
And John T is no slouch either - both an EE and attorney. Note that unlike some of the naysayers here they don't just catagorically dismiss the benefits of EI. They have an open mind.
EI thread on tool talk today
 
I know your reply was not directly to me, but I did want to say
that I am not a naysayer. I am a proponent of EI in most cases.
My experience here just didn't work out very well.

Also note that both of the posts you referenced talked about worn
out systems or specialized applications such as tractor pulling or
specialized fuel and/or high output coils.

EI is a great thing, no doubt. I put it on this tractor hoping for
it to give me a more predictable, stable, source of ignition.
I was not looking for any increase in HP or performance.
It may very well have done that if I didn't have a bad part.

The new magnetic ring did arrive today. Not a bad response time.
 
When you compare prices of the EI kit to a
rebuilt dist not sure you really save anything.
Your just putting off the rebuilt of your
distributor.

worn lobe on shaft replacement ------------ $65
EI unit & Hobo coil gut system ------------- $90
Not having to touch the dizzy in 9 yrs ---- Priceless
 
"Unless like someone I know and your wealthy enough to have a heated floor shop"

L.b, let me assure you I am not wealthy.
I do have a heated shop floor and pay for it dearly!
Let me tell you how that started though.

When I was 17, I was working construction, had a pregnant
girlfriend and a broken down Dodge Polara. Engine ran good.
Transmission was out of it. Bought it for $35, drove it home.
A few miles at a time. :roll:

Anyway, I dug a spot out of the snow bank in February, this is
Michigan remember, put some straw down for insulation, covered
it in plastic, (bad move) rolled the car over it, piled snow on three
sides to block wind and proceeded to change the transmission.

It only took about three days, but by the time I was done I
was frozen stiff, covered in semi-gelled transmission fluid that
couldn't go anywhere due to the plastic I had put down and
bound and determined that some day I would have a heated
shop.

Not one like my uncle's with a wood burner that had
caught gas fumes on fire, but one with no flames, no noise,
no fan moving dust around to get in paint or make noise, etc.

Here I am, just a "few" years later. LOL
I let all the local teens use my shop if they ask.
Just a "been there done that" thing.

If you're up this way, stop by! I'll get us a cold beverage out
of the refrigerator and we can talk about all the things I would
do different if I had to build this shop over again knowing what
I know now! :)
 
It doesn't snow here in southwest Arkansas much , but one day about twenty five years ago we had a record snow fall the same day my clutch blew out on my old chevy truck .

It was friday night on the way home from work . I made it to the driveway but had to stop for oncoming traffic on our dirt road . The truck stopped and I had to come along it into the drive way .

Saturday morning I burrowed under and pulled the tranny out of it and the tranny out of the truck with a bad motor . late sunday night I got it running again and I made it to work monday morning .

It would make me chuckle when I hired guys to work and after about a year they would feel they are what made the company profitable .
 
Tell us now what you would do different building a shop. I am trying to figure out a way to make mysellf some cheap storage for my equipment. Plus with all of my tractors needing an overhaul I need to make a shop where i can accomplish miracles i hope! lol :D
 
Well, to start with I would have went with 14 or 16 foot walls
instead of 10 feet. I can't use a hoist or much of a jib crane.
A scissor lift and a cherry picker work Ok for most stuff.
I went with 10 feet thinking it would be cheaper to heat.

I would have made it about 4 times as large and sectioned it
off so I could heat some of it to just above freezing and other
(smaller) parts of it to a warmer temperature.

I would build a room on the outside of the building to house
my water heater/boiler and air compressor so they didn't take
up space inside the shop. Use a remote drain for the compressor.

In my case the whole building should be six inches higher so
the floor drains would work better. They work fine most of the
year but in the spring when it's real wet out they run slow.

For cheap storage you might try a Quonset hutch type building.
I don't like the wasted space in them, but they're relatively cheap.
In the back right of the picture below you can see one section
of a fiberglass Quonset building. These are 14 feet wide, 7 feet
high and 7 feet deep per section. They overlap to hook together.
These came out of a foundry where they were mounted on
cement walls. I just sat them on cement blocks to raise them
a little higher then drilled holes and bolted them to the blocks.

Pole barn next to that for cost in my area. I put crushed
asphalt in both types of buildings for a floor. It's not good to
run a creeper on, but it is far superior to a dirt floor. Its
harder, doesn't get muddy and it drains moisture quite well.
A garden stool with pneumatic tires makes a nice little work
seat to roll around on the asphalt when working on a tractor.

mvphoto13250.jpg
 
Given the choice between a cement floor and no shop and a shop and no floor I would be tempted to take the former. Creeper is one reason, but splitting tractors is the biggie.
Oh and drainage is really, really important, I have a slab-on-grade barn that was built before the house so we could use it for storage and shop space while we were building. Somehow it ended up about 8" lower than it was supposed to and now we end up with 1/2' of ice or water on the floor every spring. Not too hard to work around, but not what I had envisioned for my "dream shop".

(quoted from post at 23:06:49 11/21/14) Tell us now what you would do different building a shop. I am trying to figure out a way to make mysellf some cheap storage for my equipment. Plus with all of my tractors needing an overhaul I need to make a shop where i can accomplish miracles i hope! lol :D
 

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