Cold weather issues

bbd1624

New User
I recently acquired an 8N (12 V, side mount distributor) that I intend to use primarily for mowing our field and snow removal from the driveway. The tractor was in need of routine maintenance and got new points, rotor, condenser, distributor cap, coil, engine oil, hydraulic fluid, and 160 F thermostat. I have about 6 hours on the engine since the above maintenance and up until today it has been working very well. Easy starting, smooth idle at 450 RPM, and smooth running all the way up to 2100 RPM.

The tractor was last used this past Sunday to mow about an acre of field without any problem. With the recent cold weather and a little bit of snow, I wanted to test out the tractor but found that the engine would not rev above about 400 RPM while in the cold.

The tractor is kept in a garage that is about 35 degrees F and it was a little more difficult to start than when 60F. I idled it for a few minutes to warm up and started driving down the driveway at about 1200 RPM but lost power after a minute or two. The engine would start and idle roughly, but I could not get the engine to increase RPM. The throttle linkage would move and the governor would move the link to the carburetor but the engine would not increase speed. Fuel flow at the carb drain was good and jumping the key switch did not improve the situation. I was able to limp the tractor back to the garage where I adjusted the point gap and timing. Both were close to where they should be.

After checking gap and timing in the 35 F garage, the tractor started up and idled fine at 800 RPM. Before backing out of the garage, the engine had been running about 10 minutes and I was able to run it from idle to 1800 RPM (didn’t want to push it to full throttle) without issue. However, after heading out into the cold (around 0 F) for a minute or two the engine again lost power while running about 1500 RPM. The best I could do was keep the engine running roughly at 400 RPM. Even after idling this way in the cold for 15 minutes I could not get any more power.

Within 5 minutes of limping the tractor back to the warmer garage it would again run normally. Any ideas on what could be so sensitive to the cold? Thanks for the advice.
 
Thanks for the suggestions.

I also considered air flow restriction through the air cleaner. I verified that this is not the root cause by disconnecting the air inlet tube from the air filter to bypass the cleaner. No improvement in performance was seen.

Regarding fuel flow rate through the carb drain being "good", is there a target rate (oz/min) that is considered good. I considered the rate "good" because it was a solid flow running out the carb that appeared to be a rate that would provide plenty fuel for running the engine much faster than 400 RPM.

Interesting idea about the carb icing up. Are there passages through the carb that could collect water? After running the engine (in the 35 F garage) wouldn't this clear any water out?

-Eric
 
(quoted from post at 00:30:33 11/14/14) Thanks for the suggestions.

I also considered air flow restriction through the air cleaner. I verified that this is not the root cause by disconnecting the air inlet tube from the air filter to bypass the cleaner. No improvement in performance was seen.

Regarding fuel flow rate through the carb drain being "good", is there a target rate (oz/min) that is considered good. I considered the rate "good" because it was a solid flow running out the carb that appeared to be a rate that would provide plenty fuel for running the engine much faster than 400 RPM.

Interesting idea about the carb icing up. Are there passages through the carb that could collect water? After running the engine (in the 35 F garage) wouldn't this clear any water out?

-Eric

A good fuel flow thru the carb would be a pint in 2 to 3 minutes out of the drain in the bottom of carb.

can you rev the engine up by moving the throttle plate by hand?
 
(quoted from post at 08:48:41 11/13/14)
A good fuel flow thru the carb would be a pint in 2 to 3 minutes out of the drain in the bottom of carb.

can you rev the engine up by moving the throttle plate by hand?

I will measure the fuel flow but it did appear to flow about the rate you mention.

I was unable to rev the engine by moving the throttle plate.

-Eric
 
(quoted from post at 09:54:41 11/13/14)
(quoted from post at 08:48:41 11/13/14)
A good fuel flow thru the carb would be a pint in 2 to 3 minutes out of the drain in the bottom of carb.

can you rev the engine up by moving the throttle plate by hand?

I will measure the fuel flow but it did appear to flow about the rate you mention.

I was unable to rev the engine by moving the throttle plate.

-Eric
b:43cd950ac3][i:43cd950ac3]

Eric;
Sounds to me like, you have an 'air to fuel mix' problem.
Nature of the beast, on updraft carb.!!!
Too much air, and too little fuel, causing carb icing!!

Try setting the main fuel needle, another half turn out, and resetting the idle air needle, for less air!!!

ALSO....if your engine is NOT fully warmed up to running temp before you try to advance rpm's,....that will cause faster carb icing!!!!
Warm the engine up to running temp, for at least 15-20 min's, before going above the idle!!!

Works for me in the COLD Montana weather!! :lol:

Gary :wink: [/i:43cd950ac3][/b:43cd950ac3]
 
agree with Gary.
Most of my winter tractors, I richen em up some before winter.
And in brutal cold, I clip something on the choke rod to keep it
choked all the time. Engine is happier.

Also, those little 4 cylinders will fool ya sometimes until you
have it happen a few times. At really cold temperatures,
they will cough to life and seem fine sitting there warming up.
But, all 4 aren't in the game yet...
I've had to let them warm up for a few minutes ......ahhh, there we go, as I hear balky cylinders join in.
 
Eric.......Unless you gotta BAD tank of low-lead gasoline, all the carb ICING is in the throat...ie...choke. NO JETS involved. As fer runnin' innna 35F garage, yer gonna gitt Carbon-monOXIDE poisoning.

Even yer Belch-Fire V-8 has carb de-icing. Gitts HEAT from exhaust manifold.

Didja know carb icing is a common problem with single engine airplanes like Piper-Cubs? They actually have a lever on the dashboard that they pull just before landing 'cuz iff'n they need POWER fer go-around, they don't want an ICED carb and NO power.

BTW, the natural process of carburetion causes the carb to gitt COLD. This even happens in the summer time.

One spring break, I was drivin' thru New Mexico when the car stalled out. Looked under the hood and the air cleaner was FROSTY white. Took about 1/2-hr to thaw out. Like to froze to death too. Took a little longer to gitt the wild pleasures of Juarez, Mexico. (grin) ........frosty Dell
 
I had a Chevy LUV that had an icing problem before I rebuilt the carb. It would plug the entire throat with ice if it was really damp out.
 
(quoted from post at 08:30:33 11/13/14) Thanks for the suggestions.

I also considered air flow restriction through the air cleaner. I verified that this is not the root cause by disconnecting the air inlet tube from the air filter to bypass the cleaner. No improvement in performance was seen.

Regarding fuel flow rate through the carb drain being "good", is there a target rate (oz/min) that is considered good. I considered the rate "good" because it was a solid flow running out the carb that appeared to be a rate that would provide plenty fuel for running the engine much faster than 400 RPM.

Interesting idea about the carb icing up. Are there passages through the carb that could collect water? After running the engine (in the 35 F garage) wouldn't this clear any water out?

-Eric

The requirement for fuel flow is that it flow strongly for a half a minute. A line that has a blockage near the tank can flow strongly for the first 5-10 seconds, but not enough to run above an idle after that.
 
My Jubilee doesn't like cold either. Every winter I have to crank the main jet out 2 more full turns. Summer, back in 2 turns. I think in the summer I may be about 2 1/2 turn outs, so winter it takes 4 1/2 turns to make enough power to push snow.

I'm only guessing why. One cold air is more dense. Two winter blend fuel has less power. Even my car and truck mileage goes down about 10% on winter blend. Not really sure why, but more gas helps in the winter.

Use a sharpie, mark where your main jet is set and try cranking it out a little at a time. Keep a good record. You may want to crank it in first to establish where it was in the beginning.
george
 

Speaking of carb icing, about four years ago I had shot a nice 8 point buck (white tail) on the back side of my farm. I got on the old "52 8n to ride down the road to get to the back. It was a good 20F outside and getting dark fast. I pulled off into the woods on an old logging trail that was about grown up in volunteer pines. Got about 200 yards in there (getting dark by then) and the dang thing just up and quit. Would not restart for nothing. ( I believe it was carb icing as I went the next morning when it warmed up a bit and it cranked right up). Meanwhile, I had to walk a good ways to get back to the house (up hill too). I got the truck and asked the red head if she wanted to ride down there. She did so we drove down there and I pulled the truck off the road on the trail and promptly got stuck. I was fuming by then and very cold. The buck was laying on the side of hill down by the creek that comes out of my 2 1/2 acre lake. I took a flashlight and got down there and he was too heavy to pull out. Dang tractor had caused a lot of trouble at this point. Buck was just too heavy for me to pull up a steep hill, the tractor would have made short work of that. I left the deer who was getting stiff by then from the cold. I got back to the truck and she was having a fit because some coyotes had started howling very close. Sounded like music to my ears, but she was terrified. I said, what are you worried about, you are in the truck and safe? She said take me home now!!! I'm asking her just how that was going to take place with the tractor dead and the truck stuck good 'n proper? I had a pistol with me and finally persuaded her to get out and walk back with me...as I would "protect" her from the big bad coyotes...lol. Dang tractor sure did cause a lot of trouble that evening. :oops: Went back the next morning with my youngest son (24) and we walked down there and he just threw the deer over his shoulder (about 150 lbs) and walked back to the truck ( up a steep hill) and tossed it into the bed. Tractor cranked right up and pulled the truck out. Went to the house and and dressed it out. Amazed me how easily he just tossed that thing over the shoulder. He does work out a lot in a gym and youth had me beat any day...lol :oops: Carb icing can be a pain in the cold.
 
Hmmm, stuck, red head in the truck, worried about a deer.
I'm going to guess you're not as young as you once were! ;)
 

I thought for sure the coyotes would snack on the deer, but they did not touch it. I had a disc removed from the back about 25 years ago and have to be careful about pulling on stuff too much. Any way to stop the icing problem if the same scenario repeats?
 
(quoted from post at 20:26:18 11/16/14)
I thought for sure the coyotes would snack on the deer, but they did not touch it. I had a disc removed from the back about 25 years ago and have to be careful about pulling on stuff too much. Any way to stop the icing problem if the same scenario repeats?

HMMM, stuck, red head in truck? Make her walk home in the cold? And now you can't figure out the "icing problem"
:twisted: :twisted: !

I made my banker blush her this past spring. went in to see about a loan to get a newer vehicle for the little woman. The banker was asking about options and said "what about a rear seat entertainment device"? I said "heck when we were young that was a girl friend"! :lol:

Rick
 
We've always enjoyed hearing the coyotes howl in the woods behind our house, and occasionally seeing them ghosting by in the early morning.

A little item in today's paper makes me wonder, thought. According to it, a woman in a nearby town was walking her dog about 100 yards from her house when a coyote charged them attacking then circling, for an estimated 10 minutes. The woman's husband heard her cries, rushed to her aid, and was able to drive it off with a gun he was carrying. The attack lasted about 10 minutes with coyote circling between attacks.

Oh, her dog was no little one-mouthful yap dog, but a 90 lb retriever. The coyote was described as a very large one, estimated weight 60 lb.

Something to think about when you're enjoying the woods!

 
Was out in the hunting camp this week with my 2 buddies and we were all spread out with about a quarter mile between each one of us.
It was this past Tuesday we were already in the woods about 530 in the morning I had already settled in and enjoying a cup of coffee when I started hearing a pack of coyotes howling and yapping off in a distant. That sound always brings a chill in my spine. Made sure my trusty old .270 had the safety off and decided to put my .40 side arm on my lap. I have had those damn yotes sneak up and run past behind me a few times.

Just as daylight started I was able to see the 4 of them run along the top of a ridge as if they had some place to go. Never saw or heard them again that morning.

As crazy as this may sound after 35 years I still enjoy seeing wildlife at its best.
 

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