Auxiliary Hydraulic Cylinder for Lifting 3 pt Hitch

Neelbilly

New User
I have owned a 49 8n for 12 years now. I use it regularly with a finish mower and snow plow, and occasionally with a back blade, box scraper, scoop, plow, discs, and boom pole. One thing that I had and sold was a nice front loader with a 2 way cylinder on the bucket. I had to get rid of the loader because it was just sitting, and all the extra weight of the frame, pump, valves and controls (loader arms, bucket, and cylinders off) were just so heavy that it made all the other tasks less fun (steering, braking, etc).

So here is where I am headed with this. I can push dirt or snow, and can lift things, but I can't lift/load dirt. I don't want another front loader because I don't use it enough. The rear manure scoop (Dearborn 19-27) is interesting to me, but hard to come by.

I have read on some forum some place that a man took his boom pole and attached it to all 3 points, then at the point of the boom, attached the top mount of his scoop, then took 2 long pieces of angle to connect the bottom points (3 pt hitch/boom pole to bottom of scoop). Sounds like a good idea, except I am pretty sure (without testing) that this rigging will lift little more than an empty bucket. So I have been reading about the auxiliary hydraulic port on the bottom right of the tranny. When you look at pics of the rear manure loader, it shows additional hydraulic cylinders assisting the 3 pt lift. I assume that it uses the same port.

Can I buy a couple of 1 way cylinders and get the extra boost that I need? Do they just operate at the same time as the internal with no timing issues? I know that for the old Wagner loaders, you needed to chain the 3 point arms down so that all of the flow went to the loader cylinders. Has anyone done anything like this and did it work? I realize it wouldn't get you high enough to load a 1 ton dump truck, but you could reach a trailer.
 
If I am following your description correctly,
what is going to keep your front tires on the ground with all that extra weight hanging so far out off the 3 point?
 
I expect that it will be a delicate balance between adding some counterweight and not overloading the scoop. I plan to add a couple of studs to the grill guard so that I can add some old 50# cast weights from an old weight bench in the basement. Probably 2 at most, as I know that I have to be careful of the front axle.

Perhaps it won't even work in the end. I figure that it's worth a try, just for fun. I can scrounge up a couple of pieces of angle for free. After I see how strong or weak the lift is, I'll see what's possible. At the moment, the most obvious problem is the lift capacity, but it directly behind it is overturning.

I just can't seem to do the correct search on the internet to figure out if the cylinders and 3 point hydraulics work in tandem, and if it really adds that much extra power.
 
(quoted from post at 15:29:22 11/13/14) I have owned a 49 8n for 12 years now. I use it regularly with a finish mower and snow plow, and occasionally with a back blade, box scraper, scoop, plow, discs, and boom pole. One thing that I had and sold was a nice front loader with a 2 way cylinder on the bucket. I had to get rid of the loader because it was just sitting, and all the extra weight of the frame, pump, valves and controls (loader arms, bucket, and cylinders off) were just so heavy that it made all the other tasks less fun (steering, braking, etc).

So here is where I am headed with this. I can push dirt or snow, and can lift things, but I can't lift/load dirt. I don't want another front loader because I don't use it enough. The rear manure scoop (Dearborn 19-27) is interesting to me, but hard to come by.

I have read on some forum some place that a man took his boom pole and attached it to all 3 points, then at the point of the boom, attached the top mount of his scoop, then took 2 long pieces of angle to connect the bottom points (3 pt hitch/boom pole to bottom of scoop). Sounds like a good idea, except I am pretty sure (without testing) that this rigging will lift little more than an empty bucket. So I have been reading about the auxiliary hydraulic port on the bottom right of the tranny. When you look at pics of the rear manure loader, it shows additional hydraulic cylinders assisting the 3 pt lift. I assume that it uses the same port.

Can I buy a couple of 1 way cylinders and get the extra boost that I need? Do they just operate at the same time as the internal with no timing issues? I know that for the old Wagner loaders, you needed to chain the 3 point arms down so that all of the flow went to the loader cylinders. Has anyone done anything like this and did it work? I realize it wouldn't get you high enough to load a 1 ton dump truck, but you could reach a trailer.

Your external cylinders would be in parallel with the internal 3pt lift cylinder so no need to chain down the lift. They will operate in tandem with the internal cylinder so no concerns about timing, That said I don't think the utility of such a contraption is going to be very great....

TOH
 
Yeh, I question about the workability of this thing as well.

Will the cylinders (or cylinder) really add some capacity, or will it just sort of be a wash because you are steeling flow from the internal pump? I'm thinking that it must add capacity or the old rear manure scoops wouldn't have added them...but the manure scoops were designed for manure, which is much lighter than dirt.

I'll be sure to reply to my post with my findings. If I can get some pics, I'll post them too. It might be a pic of an N on 2 wheels!
 
sounds interesting, give it a try.
might only lift a small amount of dirt, but better than shoveling it.
I might make my own scoop out of lighter materials, or snag a small one (bucket) off a lawn tractor.
A standard slip scoop is pretty heavy.

Like TOH said, the 'boost' cylinders work with your 3-point.
When the 3-point angles and leverage defeat the lifting power of the tractors lift cylinder, the oil pressure pushes at the 'boost' cylinders.
Since external cylinders are much stronger and are mounted
to push straight up on the lift arms themselves....more lift is possible.............to the breakage point even...

On my rear loader, when I use it without the 'boost' cylinders,
it won't even extend the bucket loaded, the internal lift just squalls. with the cylinders, up and out it goes.

edit: like to add that like UD said, weight way out back limits itself.
With my rear loader all the way up and back...empty, I can grab the tines and lift the front of an unweighted N off the ground.
 
(quoted from post at 16:05:39 11/13/14) Yeh, I question about the workability of this thing as well.

Will the cylinders (or cylinder) really add some capacity, or will it just sort of be a wash because you are steeling flow from the internal pump? I'm thinking that it must add capacity or the old rear manure scoops wouldn't have added them...but the manure scoops were designed for manure, which is much lighter than dirt.

I'll be sure to reply to my post with my findings. If I can get some pics, I'll post them too. It might be a pic of an N on 2 wheels!

Hydraulics 101.

You are increasing the working area of the internal cylinder so it increases the lifting force in direct proportion to the increase in area. E.g. if you triple the area you triple the hydraulic lifting force.

The lift will operate more slowly in direct proportion to the increase in area because you need greater volume to move all three cylinders in tandem. Disregarding lift arm geometry change in volume is linear with cylinder stroke so same math as above.

TOH
 

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