Clutch Has Slowly Stopped Working Properly

RustyWiring

New User
Hello folks.

I rebuild my dad's 9N engine last winter and it's been running fine most of the summer. However, the longer it runs, the less the clutch pedal works to disengage the motor. Now, I depress the pedal (warm or cold) and there's no clutch at all - just grinding when forced into gear. It's basically unusable now. Recently, when running warm, I'd depress the clutch and the tractor would continue driving for 1-2 more seconds before coasting. There is a hyrdo leak at the cotter-pin drain at the bottom of the housing, if that sheds any light. Pretty sure it's not engine oil. I've also tried to remove any extra slack in the clevis and it made no differnce.

I'm about to split it apart (again, sigh) and was hoping somebody could recognize what I've done wrong so I can be better prepared to fix it right.

Thanks!
 

You may have the clutch disc soaked in oil. or worn pressure plate fingers if so, time for a new clutch and new front trans seal.

check or replace throw out and pilot bearings also.

Make sure you have the correct amount of free travel in clutch pedal before splitting
 
Thank you for your input. I really appreciate the insight.

I was wondering - after I typed the first message - if the oil has somehow vacuumed the clutch down to the pressure plate (?). It 'feels' normal when I depress the clutch.

I measured the clutch pad when I had it apart - it was nearly as thick as a new clutch.

I did check for play because it had (always has had) about 3" slop before it gets harder to depress (the clutch has always released down at the bottom of the pedal action). I took some of that slop out with the clevis adjustment but it made zero difference.

The difference between the way it worked before I took it apart and now is that, before, there was no oil leak. I guess I did something wrong wiggling the tranny shaft back into the flywheel. Or, maybe because it sat for years without any hydraulic fluid in it caused the seal to dry out - it began leaking after a few hours of initial restart earlier this summer.
 
R, just thinking further about the saturation...

Is it likely that the clutch pad has soaked up oil and has now expanded to the point where it cannot disengage from the pressure plate?

I'm trying to figure out just what I may have to purchase for replacement...clutch plate and front seal seems most likely at the moment.
 
(quoted from post at 17:24:04 11/04/14) Thank you for your input. I really appreciate the insight.

I was wondering - after I typed the first message - if the oil has somehow vacuumed the clutch down to the pressure plate (?). It 'feels' normal when I depress the clutch.

I measured the clutch pad when I had it apart - it was nearly as thick as a new clutch.

I did check for play because it had (always has had) about 3" slop before it gets harder to depress (the clutch has always released down at the bottom of the pedal action). I took some of that slop out with the clevis adjustment but it made zero difference.

The difference between the way it worked before I took it apart and now is that, before, there was no oil leak. I guess I did something wrong wiggling the tranny shaft back into the flywheel. Or, maybe because it sat for years without any hydraulic fluid in it caused the seal to dry out - it began leaking after a few hours of initial restart earlier this summer.

BEFORE you do a split carefully inspect the pin that holds the arm to the clutch shaft - thee have been known to shear causing this exact problem. They can be hard to detect - have someone operate the clutch while you observe the shaft and arm "close up and in action". Look for any indication the shaft is not securely pinned to the arm. They should move together 100% - no slop.

TOH
 
IF the shaft is moving when you stomp the clutch ( TOH's post ).. and otherwise it is slow to release or is sticky. suspect oil soaked sticky clutch.. the oil leak tells you you liekly have a trans input shaft seal leaking.

while it could be a pilot issue.. i'd suspect sticky oily clutch first.
 
Sticky makes perfect sense: The situation gradually got increasingly worse and would grow worse when hot (pad/oil expanded) and improved when cold.

I'll double check the shaft but I had a vice grip on it when I was adjusting the clevis and it was harder than heck to move...by hand... as expected.

Thanks everyone!
 
On second thought, a weeping rear seal would probably just run down the block face.

On the original thought:
If the back of the flywheel is soaked because of a leaky rear crank seal it could be throwing oil at the back of the crank flange
and oiling up the back of the flywheel . . maybe slinging oil all up to the top of the bell housing which would then drip down or otherwise track to the flywheel face.

But you're pretty sure is it hydraulic oil though right?

Can you check the backside of the flywheel through the starter hole?

What a Wino
I mean, What do I know! :)
 
(quoted from post at 03:34:21 11/05/14) Sticky makes perfect sense: The situation gradually got increasingly worse and would grow worse when hot (pad/oil expanded) and improved when cold.

I'll double check the shaft but I had a vice grip on it when I was adjusting the clevis and it was harder than heck to move...by hand... as expected.

Thanks everyone!

BUT but but... What kind of excuse is that, do what TOH suggested than we can talk about the BUT's... More than one person has been whooped by a broke clevis...
 
(quoted from post at 14:24:04 11/04/14)
I did check for play because it had (always has had) about 3" slop before it gets harder to depress (the clutch has always released down at the bottom of the pedal action). I took some of that slop out with the clevis adjustment but it made zero difference.

Like TOH and Hobo said, check all external parts for breakage first.
But,
Lets go back to the above statement.
3" ??
After you 'took some of the slop out'.....
What is your clutch pedal free play now.....exactly?
I don't have my book in front of me, but on most clutches
the freeplay is far, far less than 3 inches.
Too much free play and you will run out of pedal travel before the clutch will......clutch.
Ya, they can be a bugger to turn sometimes.
But at least on tractors, you can be right down there to move it gently with your hand when done to feel/hear when the TO bearing makes contact.

a little rusty on the 9N-2N's but if I remember right the clutch pedal
engages the left brake too.
too much clutch free play and the pedal will stop up against the brake before it pushes the clutch fingers in enough.
 
(quoted from post at 06:34:06 11/05/14)
(quoted from post at 14:24:04 11/04/14)
[color=red:60911676cb]I did check for play because it had (always has had) about 3" slop before it gets harder to depress (the clutch has always released down at the bottom of the pedal action). I took some of that slop out with the clevis adjustment but it made zero difference. [/color:60911676cb]

Like TOH and Hobo said, check all external parts for breakage first.
But,
Lets go back to the above statement.
3" ??
After you 'took some of the slop out'.....
What is your clutch pedal free play now.....exactly?
I don't have my book in front of me, but on most clutches
the freeplay is far, far less than 3 inches.
Too much free play and you will run out of pedal travel before the clutch will......clutch.
Ya, they can be a bugger to turn sometimes.
But at least on tractors, you can be right down there to move it gently with your hand when done to feel/hear when the TO bearing makes contact.

a little rusty on the 9N-2N's but if I remember right the clutch pedal
engages the left brake too.
too much clutch free play and the pedal will stop up against the brake before it pushes the clutch fingers in enough.

Major clue and exactly why I pointed to the linkage. When that pin shears you cannot screw the adjusting clevis in far enough to take up the free play. He may have a sticking clutch but the excessive free play is a different problem.

TOH
 
when you check the clevis pins, take them out and look at them. I have had pins that appeared OK, but when taken out, were found to be almost worn in two, and the wear allowed a lot of slop in the system.
 
(quoted from post at 12:33:49 11/05/14) when you check the clevis pins, take them out and look at them. I have had pins that appeared OK, but when taken out, were found to be almost worn in two, and the wear allowed a lot of slop in the system.

I am not talking about a clevis pin. I am talking about the drive pin that holds the arm onto the throwout fork shaft. See diagram below.

TOH

9NClutchParts.jpg
 
(quoted from post at 14:34:06 11/05/14)
(quoted from post at 14:24:04 11/04/14)
I did check for play because it had (always has had) about 3" slop before it gets harder to depress (the clutch has always released down at the bottom of the pedal action). I took some of that slop out with the clevis adjustment but it made zero difference.

Like TOH and Hobo said, check all external parts for breakage first.
But,
Lets go back to the above statement.
3" ??
After you 'took some of the slop out'.....
What is your clutch pedal free play now.....exactly?
I don't have my book in front of me, but on most clutches
the freeplay is far, far less than 3 inches.
Too much free play and you will run out of pedal travel before the clutch will......clutch.
Ya, they can be a bugger to turn sometimes.
But at least on tractors, you can be right down there to move it gently with your hand when done to feel/hear when the TO bearing makes contact.

a little rusty on the 9N-2N's but if I remember right the clutch pedal
engages the left brake too.
too much clutch free play and the pedal will stop up against the brake before it pushes the clutch fingers in enough.

Its good to see someone understands how to adjust a clutch... Most all are stuck on pedal free play and don't understand pedal free play is not what you are shooting for... Technically Free play is a starting point but does not necessarily mean the clutch is adjusted correctly...

In TOH pix #7511 free play will tell ALL.... Get that at no less than 1/8" free play and you can adjust the pedal to suit the operator... Its almost impossible to get all the pedal free play out of a worn out N the adjustment is just not there... It may be there on a 9/2N but not on a 8N...
 
Tom, would you be able to point me to the transmission input shaft seal and gasket at the YT store?

I have the machine split and will take off the clutch tomorrow. It's dryer on the engine-half than it is on the tranny-half but I'll remove the flywheel to be certain. Definitely oil all over clutch disk.
 
So, tractor is reassembled and running nicely.

The original input shaft seal was signed by Ford himself - it was falling apart. I replaced it, the gasket around housing holding it to the tranny and the clutch disc, cleaned the oil off the flywheel and reassembled.

I started it up, put it gear (no grinding!) and let out the clutch and...nothing.

Turns out I left the Sherman shifter in a middle position. Sinking feeling gone.

Tried again and off she went.

It remains to be seen if that was the leak but it had to be given the brittle condition of that seal. If you don't hear from me on this thread, then it was 'mission accomplished'.

My sincerest thanks to you all here for taking the time to help me out.

Off to drag to some trees (I heat my house with wood)...
 

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