This should buff right out right? (pic)

Royse

Well-known Member
1949 8N manifold. #4 cylinder of course.
Block looks surprisingly good. Silver lining! ;)

mvphoto12167.jpg
 
I bet its wrapped to the point the gasket won't
stay in. The manifold will get too hot for JBweld
unless they have a high heat formula.
 
Permatex makes a muffler putty that might help seal it up. I used it on the manifold to exaust pipe joint and it worked nice there. The end of my manifold was eat up pretty bad from years of heat and weather and it sealed up good and hasn't given my any trouble since.
 

My cousin's 8N had a manifold that looked about like that - she wanted it sealed up and so I replaced it with a new one. The quality was very good and the exhaust pipe actually sealed up which it did not do before.

Those manifolds don't cost that much....don't forget the brass nuts.
 
If it were mine, I would turn my welder down cold and get the right filler material and build it back up with spot welds. Afterwards I would do my best to get it in the mill to plane the surface with a large endmill..
 
(quoted from post at 16:24:51 10/20/14) 1949 8N manifold. #4 cylinder of course.
Block looks surprisingly good. Silver lining! ;)

mvphoto12167.jpg

How long was it left leaking to get that bad?
 
Caryc, I honestly don't know. Not mine. I just took it off.

Thanks everyone for the suggestions.
I don't have a mill, so with a new one at $76 I won't try to fix it.
I'd have close to that in it at a machine shop.
Not to mention my time, welding rod, electricity, etc.
It is one of the worst I've seen. #1 is bad too, but not as bad.

The block has some pitting, but nothing like the manifold!
Looks to me like it was ran leaking for a long time.
 

That makes no sense... As does welding it and machining it unless its a attempt to make do to you can do better... Either way you are gonna get to do it again....
 
I had one worse than that on my 9n. I built it up
with a 1/16" rod,little by little,then ground it
down,sanded it with my 48" belt sander until flat.
It still works 10 years later.
 
I have a tendency to do things as cheap as possible when it is my own toy.. Similarly, I think old things are better than new things. The quality and craftsmanship of things built in the past will always surpass that which is built today (unless I build it). My Rockwell Lathe was built in 1969, my Connecticut metal break 1969, sheet metal sheer 1971, manual hand break 1968, Ford PU 1968, Mercedes Benz 1969... AND my 1946 2N Ford Tractor!
 
I have a new manifold in my garage for my tractor
in caste that happens.I was in the farm store and
the manifold was on the clearance table for
$26.00. And they were having 30% off clearance
stuff that day.
 
Royse,

I have a spare manifold on a parts tractor right now. It is aftermarket so the casting may need a little work for a socket to fit.

I haven't tried to remove it. Send me an email if you would like it. I can beat $76...
 
Checkout this post - http://forums.yesterdaystractors.com/viewtopic.php?t=994493&highlight=thermosteel

Bruce's thermosteel & wax paper thing worked for me on 8N blowing on port#4 - but your manifold photo does look pretty bad, how'/s the block?
 
Royse,
There is an ad on craig's list Grand Rapids Farm
and garden for new tractor manifolds. I believe
they are located somewhere on the north end of
G.R. You may have seen it. Check it out,they may
have what you need.
 
(quoted from post at 23:01:17 10/20/14) Similarly, I think old things are better than new things. The quality and craftsmanship of things built in the past will always surpass that which is built today (unless I build it).

I won't even begin to give you my list of counter-examples to that statement.

In my shop a 60 year old badly eroded piece of cast iron patched with weld is NOT viewed as better quality and craftsmanship than a newly minted and machined one. For the price of a new one I wouldn't fire up the welder or my mill. And if you give me a chance I will trade my OLD (197x) Rockwell lathes or 1979 Cincinnati mill for a new CNC version any day. Modern technology is hard to beat.

JMO,

TOH

IMG_1793.jpg
 
(quoted from post at 21:25:02 10/21/14)
(quoted from post at 23:01:17 10/20/14) Similarly, I think old things are better than new things. The quality and craftsmanship of things built in the past will always surpass that which is built today (unless I build it).


Lets don't leave out the vehicles ... A 68 Ford p/u will never be be as good as a 1978,88,98 are 08... A 2N will never be as good as a 1956,66,76,86.... As for the benz he has my condolences...
Modern technology is hard to beat.
 
Hobo,

Your posts are always interesting and informative, but this time I would have to disagree.
I understand about your shop tools - heck yes, who wouldn't want a computerized lathe or similar item. Precision is everything here.
But vehicles are different. Kind of like comparing our N's to Kubotas.
I happen to own six mid-60's Ford trucks of different sizes. Yes they are simple but they are FAR more rugged than the '95 F-250 that followed me home one sorry day. What good is power steering and A/C when the dingbusted thing dies on you out of town?
What would you rather spend time troubleshooting by the roadside, Fuel Injection and all the sensors or a two barrel Motorcraft 2100? And when's the last time you needed a manual transmission rebuilt?
Again, I enjoy all your informative posts. And you really are one of the resident experts at fixing problems with innovative solutions. But modern technology has made vehicles just about impossible to service 'shade tree' style. I'll take reliability everytime over creature comforts.
Doug in east TN
 
(quoted from post at 17:08:04 10/22/14) Hobo,

Your posts are always interesting and informative, but this time I would have to disagree.
I understand about your shop tools - heck yes, who wouldn't want a computerized lathe or similar item. Precision is everything here.
But vehicles are different. Kind of like comparing our N's to Kubotas.
I happen to own six mid-60's Ford trucks of different sizes. Yes they are simple but they are FAR more rugged than the '95 F-250 that followed me home one sorry day. What good is power steering and A/C when the dingbusted thing dies on you out of town?
What would you rather spend time troubleshooting by the roadside, Fuel Injection and all the sensors or a two barrel Motorcraft 2100? And when's the last time you needed a manual transmission rebuilt?
Again, I enjoy all your informative posts. And you really are one of the resident experts at fixing problems with innovative solutions. But modern technology has made vehicles just about impossible to service 'shade tree' style. I'll take reliability everytime over creature comforts.
Doug in east TN

I currently have two "sporty cars" - a 1962 Triumph TR4 and a 2007 BMW 335xi. The TR4 is a RWD four cylinder OHV with twin SU carbs and a 4 speed manual gearbox. The BMW is a twin turbo, electronic fuel injected DOHC inline six with a six speed shiftable automatic and full time computerized AWD.

I can (and have) fixed previously owned TR4's on the side of a road (after one of their all too frequent hiccups) using just a screwdriver and a pair of pliers. I would be hard pressed to fix anything but minor problems with the BMW even in my well equipped shop complete with on-board computer diagnostic equipment

However reliability is not the same as being able to fix something on the side of the road or in the shop. It is about getting you from point A to point B without breaking down and needing to be fixed. If I am headed to California it will be in the BMW with it's vastly superior reliability, performance, and creature comforts. The TR4 will never take me far from home ;-)

TOH

PS> I have had to rebuild the Borg Warner T5 in both of my 1988 and 1987 Thunderbird Turbo Coupes. Manual transmissions are no different than anything else - they wear out.
 
(quoted from post at 01:08:04 10/23/14) Hobo,

Your posts are always interesting and informative, but this time I would have to disagree.
I understand about your shop tools - heck yes, who wouldn't want a computerized lathe or similar item. Precision is everything here.
But vehicles are different. Kind of like comparing our N's to Kubotas.
I happen to own six mid-60's Ford trucks of different sizes. Yes they are simple but they are FAR more rugged than the '95 F-250 that followed me home one sorry day. What good is power steering and A/C when the dingbusted thing dies on you out of town?
What would you rather spend time troubleshooting by the roadside, Fuel Injection and all the sensors or a two barrel Motorcraft 2100? And when's the last time you needed a manual transmission rebuilt?
Again, I enjoy all your informative posts. And you really are one of the resident experts at fixing problems with innovative solutions. But modern technology has made vehicles just about impossible to service 'shade tree' style. I'll take reliability everytime over creature comforts.
Doug in east TN

Check out how many fuel injected trucks have over 200K on the clock and still a nice truck... Many go well into the 300K range with no problems other than maintenance... If I never seen a carb are points again that be OK by me...
 
(quoted from post at 15:35:22 10/22/14)
(quoted from post at 01:08:04 10/23/14) Hobo,

Your posts are always interesting and informative, but this time I would have to disagree.
I understand about your shop tools - heck yes, who wouldn't want a computerized lathe or similar item. Precision is everything here.
But vehicles are different. Kind of like comparing our N's to Kubotas.
I happen to own six mid-60's Ford trucks of different sizes. Yes they are simple but they are FAR more rugged than the '95 F-250 that followed me home one sorry day. What good is power steering and A/C when the dingbusted thing dies on you out of town?
What would you rather spend time troubleshooting by the roadside, Fuel Injection and all the sensors or a two barrel Motorcraft 2100? And when's the last time you needed a manual transmission rebuilt?
Again, I enjoy all your informative posts. And you really are one of the resident experts at fixing problems with innovative solutions. But modern technology has made vehicles just about impossible to service 'shade tree' style. I'll take reliability everytime over creature comforts.
Doug in east TN

Check out how many fuel injected trucks have over 200K on the clock and still a nice truck... Many go well into the 300K range with no problems other than maintenance... If I never seen a carb are points again that be OK by me...

absolutely agree newer is better.
posted many times about learning that the hard way at the dragstrip when running the street/heavy classes with a 60's machine.
But...like everything else it gets spoiled. Don't know about NC, but up here everything after 97? gets plugged in to the states computer at inspection time.
Great truck, no problems, but if that check engine light comes on for ANY reason (or the scan shows any codes)...pay the piper no matter the cost or scrap it. Yes, 10 year old nice trucks are getting scrapped. As you know, sometimes bills can mount crazily to get that silly light off.
Impossible to sell too, if that light is on, nobody will buy it at any price here, because it is basically useless.
It's a shame......

ps I know a tree-hugger will read this and scold me, but believe me, 'they' don't give a hooey about the environment, it's all about the money.
 
(quoted from post at 08:02:27 10/23/14)

absolutely agree newer is better.
posted many times about learning that the hard way at the dragstrip when running the street/heavy classes with a 60's machine.
But...like everything else it gets spoiled. Don't know about NC, but up here everything after 97? gets plugged in to the states computer at inspection time.
Great truck, no problems, but if that check engine light comes on for ANY reason...pay the piper no matter the cost or scrap it. Yes, 10 year old nice trucks are getting scrapped. As you know, sometimes bills can mount crazily to get that silly light off.
Impossible to sell too, if that light is on, nobody will buy it at any price here, because it is basically useless.
It's a shame......

ps I know a tree-hugger will read this and scold me, but believe me, 'they' don't give a hooey about the environment, it's all about the money.

That is really a regulation issue not a reliability issue. I know the story well and this is how we play that game here.

My son has a 98 Ford Probe GT (rebadged Mazda 626) that has a check engine light that won't go off - chronic "insufficient EGR flow" problem that has persisted for 8-10 years now. Nobody has been able to fix the dang thing and many have tried. When it is due for inspection he waits until the last week before he takes it in. Five minutes and he gets a failure and an automatic 90 day extension. At the end of that extension he applies online for another 90 day extension. When the extensions are all up he takes it to my local garage man knows the car and problem well. He cleans s the EGR and intake system cleaned and an "emissions tune up" for $400. That is the max you are required to spend by law and the "repair" gets the car an inspection good for another 2 years. The last extension is up this month and it just happens to also need some other exhaust work which will eat up most if not all of that $400.

Other than the phantom EGR issue it runs great and is cheap relaible transportation. It isn't going to get scrapped over a $200/year emissions system "cleaning" bill. In another 3 years it will be 20 years old and emissions won't be an issue - it will qualiify as a historic vehicle which doesn't have to be emissions inspected ;-)

TOH
 
Whatever. I'm not going to pick a fight over this topic.
But your original dig was in regards to a 78 Ford pickup not being 'as good' as a newer model.

Today's vehicles look like they were designed to be assembled by chimps. There are multiple distinct points of failure on most serpentine belt setups. My Fords? Uh, that would be...an alternator and water pump. And I have yet to bugger up any of the manual T-18's or NP 435's in these trucks. Even the rock crawler fans dig these.

And I can tell you that I could drive either of my '66 Fords right along with you to California and back. You might get there first, or you might not make it all. My point is I can do it, and without any support from a garage.

I guess we just have different opinions of just what 'good' means when it comes to things. We both seem to like Ford tractors, so we can agree on that.

Doug in east TN
 
Didn't really mean for an argument to erupt.. My point was only that I see more quality in things that are older. Why else own a old ford tractor. If newer is better, what in the heck are you doing here? Granted I am not driving the Mercedes 4hrs to OKC or KC, I'll be in my minivan so the kids have their dvd player and I have ac. But my old Benz gets 40+ MPG (diesel, manual) and is at over 700,000 miles with only one engine change 20 or so years ago... While my van is at 140,000 miles and is already on it's second transmission. In the 90s ford played with making everything plastic. I remember a friend hit a large dog and totaled his front end, now there's so quality for you...

On tools, yeah, a CNC is nice in a production setting. But have fun doing all of that set up to turn out one part. I can get .001 accuracy on my 'Old' Rockwell 14" lathe and I love spending the time running that old machine. I was 8 years old when I was trained to use it and I have never wanted anything different for the last 23 years. My mill is newer with digital read out, but to me that is just a tool for today's uneducated high school drop outs who can't read a dial or a scale. It does make the job easier when it works and if you remember to reset to zero before you start.

Modern is nice when it is quality. Technology does make life easier and allows for a less intelligent population. No need to troubleshoot when you can just plug the car in to see what is wrong or the machine that won't let you think for yourself.

In my line of work I get to see all kinds of people. The guys who want a POS VW based trike so it is cheap and they can work on it, to the guys who want to spend some money on a more modern engine, but still want the carburetor to limit their miles to less than 100k so they can work on it. My favorite are the guys who want it all and are willing to spend for it. My last trike project had an LS1 out of a 2000 Corvette and it will drive 300k miles I am sure without any more than regular oil changes, but total investment in that vehicle was near $70,000.

Why fight about it though? Can't we all have our own thoughts and preferences? Personally I love things that were built before I was born. I can see that there was a guy somewhere in an American Manufacturing shop who took time to make each part and assemble it and that it has lasted all these years and now I get the satisfaction of owning and operating it.

Can't we all just get along? If not, this seems to be a place for people who like old things to come together and learn from one another about how to maintain, fix, and love these old beasts...

Jeff Eck

mvphoto12283.jpg
 
I find it ironic that this debate is taking place on the Internet using iPads and laptops. Perhaps an op-ed in the local paper or 10 paces at noon would be more effective and reliable. :D I loved my '72 Dodge pickup "back in the day" but I wouldn't take it now for free, not as a daily driver anyway. The simple reason I have a 74 year old tractor is because no one would sell me a new Kubota for $600.
 
(quoted from post at 13:08:00 10/23/14) Whatever. I'm not going to pick a fight over this topic.
But your original dig was in regards to a 78 Ford pickup not being 'as good' as a newer model.

Today's vehicles look like they were designed to be assembled by chimps. There are multiple distinct points of failure on most serpentine belt setups. My Fords? Uh, that would be...an alternator and water pump. And I have yet to bugger up any of the manual T-18's or NP 435's in these trucks. Even the rock crawler fans dig these.

And I can tell you that I could drive either of my '66 Fords right along with you to California and back. You might get there first, or you might not make it all. My point is I can do it, and without any support from a garage.

I guess we just have different opinions of just what 'good' means when it comes to things. We both seem to like Ford tractors, so we can agree on that.

Doug in east TN

Maybe you should read the thread again. I didn't level a "dig" at anything other than the unqualified opinion that:

[i:42f1e57f89]"old things are better than new things. The quality and craftsmanship of things built in the past will always surpass that which is built today (unless I build it). "[/i:42f1e57f89]

I have a real problem with that mindset but maybe it is just me.

TOH
 
I for one have enjoyed following this post. I don't really see an argument, just a difference of opinion. I would like to believe that we all have an appreciation for the older stuff. Some see more craftsmanship and quality built in and some are just happy to have a piece of equipment they can own operate and fix for a reasonable amount of $$. My opinion is that more quality and pride did go into making stuff in days past. For the technology and manufacturing process available at the time some pretty good stuff was made. I think what a lot of people like is that older stuff can be fixed. You didn't just throw it away and get a new one like in todays world. My work car is a 04 neon. Not known to be the best most reliable car. I have to say it has given me no trouble. About 150K and still runs great. I hope to get 200k+ out of it, but even though it has been a good car when it comes up needing a major repair I will more than likely scrap it and get something else. That's just kinda how I see Old vs New. :)
 

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