8n questions (transmission and front loader pump)

I bought a house and land and it came with a 8N tractor (early model with front distrubutor). Best guess on the engine S/N looking at the area on the engine block below the fuel filter is 8n 92C-79 (its pretty much worn off) and there is a casting number on the bellhousing above the starter that says: 8N B248

The transmission on this tractor seems to have been designed for road racing and I am wondering if anyone knows if it is possible to regear the transmission down to reasonable speeds as reverse is about 8-13 mph and 1st won't pull a 6" windrow of gravel. I have done a little internet research and found out about the overs/under drives that were an option but I'm not big on spending a grand on something I'll probably have to rebuild anyways. Any help out there on getting a reduced speed 1st and reverse gearset?

My second questions is concerning the Ford loader (model: 19-118 gravity dump, powered by a vicker vane pump) that is installed on it: the drive coming from the crankshaft seems to be broken at the front of the motor. With the motor "Off" I can turn the pump shaft and the crankshaft remains stationary. I can see rotation of the shaft that drives the pump in the space between the front of the motor and the front axle so I'm thinking that there is a key or something similar in the front of the crank that has broken or worn off. Am I correct or is there some other setup thats going to require pulling the crank to repair?

I'm debating converting the loader to use tilt cylinders and adding Calcium Colride (SP?) to the rear tires as well as converting is to a 12 volt system and adding lights if I can remedy the high geared transmission for a reasonable price...

I live in western SD and will be using it for snow removal as well as other chores on my piece of dirt.

Any help will be greatly appreciated!

Yes the 8N has some pretty high gearing to them. As for the loader pump most use a splined shaft and hub assembly to drive the pump. You have to unbolt the pump and then slide it back to get the shaft out of the hub that is bolted to the crank shaft pulley. Replace both the shaft and hub at t the same time or you will be doing the job again real soon. Learned that the hard way years ago

One version of the front hydraulic pump was driven
by four pegs that pushed into the front crankshaft
sheave. You could move the pump and drive forward
to disconnect the drive when you did not want to
use the loader. You just blocked the loader arms
up. It may be merely disconnected. Line the pegs
up and push the pump and drive rearward.

Don't understand why it will not pull the gravel
in first gear. Is it that you do not have enough
traction?

The 8n trannies are notoriously too fast, reverse in particular, and
there is no easy or cost effective cure. However, the problem is
often exacerbated by a sticky clutch, sluggish governor or tired
carburetor since they will all encourage you to use more throttle
than should be necessary, making the tractor go too fast. These
problems can all be cured fairly easily and cheaply.

If it is going as fast as you say, then it is possible that the machine has a step-up aux tranny which has lost
its lever or cable over the years, and is stuck in overdrive. However chances of this are extremely small.

Do you have a high/low sherman tranny installed that is set to high?

See below for some picts.

http://www.oldfordtractors.com/sherman.htm

Forget loading the rears with calcium chloride. it
will only result in rotting your rims. Use used
antifreeze or if you can afford it new antifreeze.

Old, thanks for the advice. When the weather cooperates I'll get it pulled and order some parts.

Here is a few pics of what the shaft end and entire setup looks like. Your splined shaft end may look a bit different but it would be splined non the less. It fits into a splined pulley on the end of the crankshaft. One or both of them may be stripped
Hope it helps a bit.

Please forgive the mass response but I'm trying to get caught up.

The tractor does not have an aux tranny installed the only lever other than the shifter is located on the bellhousing and controlls PTO speed (high RPM, neutral, low RPM). There are no "extra" holes that a cable could have ran through and no extra holes in the dash for a knob. There is a lever on the left side (aft looking forward) of the rear diff area that I'm assuming is a for a diff lock, but has nothing to do with trans speed (I tried).

The old girl runs great with a good clutch (no evidence of slipping or sticking) and no engine performance issues. In reverse at Idle (i'm talking damn near dying) on flat ground the tractor will still go faster than I can walk and I'm 6' tall and in good health...

The pump drive it is not a disconnectable setup that could be de-coupled when not in use, its a shaft that appears to slip into the front of the crank shaft and that is where it is free spinning as well as making a slight grinding noise.

Now as for putting calcuim cholride in for weight/traction, it's got tubes in the tires so I'd be really suprised if it ate the rims...

Barring me stumbling on a underdrive unit this winter I think next spring it's going to get traded in on something newer and slower.

Thanks

That looks like my pump shaft setup. Any idea of the part numbers for the shaft and pully? I ordered a parts manual but it hasn't showed up yet.

Thanks again

(quoted from post at 18:27:15 10/05/14)

The pump drive it is not a disconnectable setup that could be de-coupled when not in use, its a shaft that appears to slip into the front of the crank shaft and that is where it is free spinning as well as making a slight grinding noise.


Thanks

Click to expand...

That is the "standard" setup and comes int two flavors - peg or splined hub. Sounds like you need a new hub/pulley/driveshaft. If it is the older "peg" style I would recommend an upgrade to the newer and "better" splined design.

TOH

"The tractor does not have an aux tranny installed the only lever other than the shifter is located on the bellhousing and controlls PTO speed (high RPM, neutral, low RPM)."

Better rethink that!

If you have a shift lever on the bellhousing that controls PTO RPM you DO have an auxiliary transmission installed (as the there was no such lever from the factory)OR you have some tractor other than an 8N!!!!

If it's REALLY an 8N WITH an auxiliary transmission, your forward and reverse speeds are affected by this same shifter you claim changes your PTO speed!

(quoted from post at 18:30:05 10/05/14)
That looks like my pump shaft setup. Any idea of the part numbers for the shaft and pully? I ordered a parts manual but it hasn't showed up yet.

Thanks again

Click to expand...

Crankshaft pulley - 192160
Hub - 192161
Drive shaft - 194354

The N-series does no have a differential lock. The lever in the rear turns the PTO on and off.

If you have a lever in the bell housing it is for an auxiliary transmission which alters (steps up and/or down) the OEM gearing.

TOH

Tell you what. Snap some pictures of your tractor including The shifter you mention as well as the pump end.

Try the following for your parts manual. Just remove the (*) when coping the URL

http://www.n*tractor*club.com/forums/manuals/messages/1007.html

Hopefully the photo's post. Bear with me as I'm new at this.

I've tried both speeds and if there is a difference in ground speed I can't tell. I can tell a big difference in PTO speed though. Thoughts on this?

I pulled the shaft and will get a replacement shaft and coupler ordered as it seems to be a standard 6 spline, 9 inch long shaft.

So does everybody elses tires, tubes are common,
leaky valvestems are too.

Yes, there will be a difference in ground speed, as well as PTO speed.
Info on your auxilliary transmission

guys have you covered on your step-up transmission.
Also, if you are unfamiliar with N's, yes, dis-engaging the pto with that lever by your left heel with make the 3-point non-functional .
What size rear tires are on it? Should be 11.2-28.
A lot of times previous owners will go bigger and that really speeds up an already too fast tractor.

And like the other poster mentioned, engine and governor in top shape, dump the throttle when going into reverse, and you can slowly move in reverse. A good running tractor engine has a lot of torque at a very low rpm.
(your mention of it not being able to pull stone in First is a hint. A non-pto load behind a tractor in First gear, too much and the tires will spin. The engine should never give up)

Careful starting that one with the neutral safety switch bypassed.

And I bet most people here with experience with CC would be surprised if it doesn't.

It's my belief that CC can leach out in microscopic but harmful quantities from an almost new tube, and it certainly from an older one even if that tube seems to hold air ok. Salt is very good at going wherever it is not wanted.

(quoted from post at 23:27:15 10/05/14)

Now as for putting calcuim cholride in for weight/traction, it's got tubes in the tires so I'd be really suprised if it ate the rims...

Thanks

Click to expand...

Ok, so assuming I have a Sherman step up/step down transmission (that is the only one I see on the referenced page that has a selector on the Left side) is it possible that it is defective as I am 100% certain that in either setting the PTO speed changes but the tractor speed DOESN'T change? I even verified this by having my wife follow me up the road in her car and I clocked the same speed in either setting.

Just to clarify I'm looking to add weight to the rear (i.e. CC) so that the tractor doesn't spin out when trying to pull half of a blade full of gravel. I have experiance using CC in previous tractors and I've never experianced rim rot from CC leaking out of a tube or a valve stem. If CC can leak out, so can air... I recently tore apart a rear tire on a JD "M" that had CC put in it in the 60's and it didn't have any rim rot (rims looked to be in the same shape as the front rims). The thought of using antifreeze for weight in place of CC is a good thought but I'll have to look at weights of both first.

(quoted from post at 22:23:49 10/06/14) Ok, so assuming I have a Sherman step up/step down transmission (that is the only one I see on the referenced page that has a selector on the Left side) is it possible that it is defective as I am 100% certain that in either setting the PTO speed changes but the tractor speed DOESN'T change? I even verified this by having my wife follow me up the road in her car and I clocked the same speed in either setting.

Click to expand...

I don't see any way that is possible. The Aux simply steps engine speed up/down ahead of the regular transmission. The PTO and final drive are driven off the output of the regular transmission. Any change to input speed affects both.

TOH

(quoted from post at 07:43:28 10/07/14)

(quoted from post at 22:23:49 10/06/14) Ok, so assuming I have a Sherman step up/step down transmission (that is the only one I see on the referenced page that has a selector on the Left side) is it possible that it is defective as I am 100% certain that in either setting the PTO speed changes but the tractor speed DOESN'T change? I even verified this by having my wife follow me up the road in her car and I clocked the same speed in either setting.

Click to expand...

I don't see any way that is possible. The Aux simply steps engine speed up/down ahead of the regular transmission. The PTO and final drive are driven off the output of the regular transmission. Any change to input speed affects both.

TOH

Click to expand...

bsolutely! PTO = transmission input/2.75