Is it carburetor issue or something else and ignition questi

Well here it is. After a successful conversion from a 6 volt to a twelve volt system. She started up and ran like a charm. Foot note Tractor was sitting for a year prior.I had experienced a clutch problem so after getting some tips on this forum I decided to take her out for some exercise.My property is hilly.So I started out fairly level for about 500 feet then descended a small hill to another level stretch. When I increased the throttle at that point she wanted to back fire a li and did not run very smoothly as I added more throttle so I backed off to a lower throttle and she chugged along fine. after another one eighth mile I started to climb a gradual slope which became a little steeper right at the final 50 feet. As i started to climb the engine started to loose power and I could not increase the throttle. by the time I came to the final climb she limped and lost all power to go forward and stalled out. I could not get her to start again so I let her roll back down hill to a level area.I removed the glass bowl and found particles in it so I turned the gas on and the flow was very erratic so I blew back up into the gas tank using a small tube and the gas flow became steady. The screen was intact that covered the gas line exiting the bowl to the carb. I removed the line at the carb and made sure I was getting good flow at the carb,which I was at that point. I removed the larger drain plug from the carb and drained it out.Then re attached the gas line.After some double checking to make sure I had good spark,which I did,I attempted to start her up. I could not get her to start. After more back and forth checking gas flow etc. she eventually started but would not run smoothly or stay running for very long.I could not apply any throttle she would immediately die out. Second question in the process of trying to start the tractor I noticed I could engage the starter whether the key was turned on or off. I only had spark however when the key was in the on position. What did I do wrong in rewiring the system or is that the ignition switch itself. Thanks in advance for any and all comments and or assistance.
 
Sounds like you have a carb/gas tank issue. Also did you check the timing? Re check the points. Sometimes with cheap points the rub block wears fast and then the points both fail to open at the correct time for timing and will burn up.
 
" I noticed I could engage the starter whether the key was turned on or off."

That's the way it works. The key just provides current to the coil.

It takes three things for an engine to run: spark at the right time, compression, & fuel/air in the right mixture. For the moment, forget about compression & concentrate on narrowing the problem down to spark or fuel.

There are three very important tools you always need to have in your tool box: a 3 inch piece of wire w/ alligator clips on each end, a spark checker w/ an adjustable gap (* see below) and a 7/16 box end wrench. (see tip # 50 at the link below) And, you really do need a working ammeter on the tractor; it is a very important diagnostic tool. With these tools, you can quickly narrow down most N problems to spark or fuel.

Next time it won't start, check for spark then fuel. First, turn the key on, crank the engine & look at the ammeter. What is the needle doing? Does it show a constant discharge, no movement at all, or does it move back & forth slightly? Next, hook up your spark checker, turn the key on & crank the engine. If the spark jumps the 1/4” gap, you probably don’t have a spark problem. If it won’t jump the ¼” gap, you have a spark problem. If the ammeter needle shows a constant discharge, or doesn’t move at all, that also tells you that you have a spark problem. Jump the ignition switch w/ your jumper wire & see what happens. If it runs, you found the problem. If it doesn’t have spark after you jump the ignition switch, post back for more info on further troubleshooting. (and do not forget to turn the ignition switch off; see tip # 38

Next, check for fuel. Get a can & put it under the carb. Remove the bolt in the bottom of the carb; as long as the fuel is turned on, you should see gas flowing out of the carb. Let it run for at least 30 seconds. If it’s a dribble, or runs for 5 seconds & stops, or none at all, you have solved half the problem: it’s fuel related. If gas flows well out of the carb & only stops when you turn it off at the sediment bowl, chances are very good it’s not a fuel problem.If it does not have gas coming out of the carb at a steady stream w/ the bolt out for at least 30 seconds, you have a fuel problem. First, remove the gas cap. Your vent could be clogged & it vacuum locked. If that doesn’t work, tap the carb bowl w/ a hammer handle in case the float is sticking closed. (don’t whack it w/ the head of the hammer; you can crack the bowl). If you still don’t see gas flowing, the N has three fuel screens; one in the brass elbow, one in the top of the sediment bowl & one on the stem of the sediment bowl in the gas tank. Check the screen in the elbow & the screen in the top of the sediment bowl. (don’t worry about the one in the tank) Both probably need to be cleaned. Put at least 2 gallons in the tank. (and do not forget to turn the gas off; see tip # 9)

There are ways to check for spark & fuel that work & ways that don't. For example, having gas to the carb is nice, but having it past the float is what counts! That’s why removing the 7/16” bolt in the bottom of the carb is the way to check for fuel. And, same thing w/ spark at the plugs. Some folks think that checking for spark means pulling a plug wire off & looking for one. Well, it's the distance the spark jumps at the plug that gives you the info you want. It takes about 17kv to jump a 3/16" gap & 22kv to jump ¼” in the open air. Remember, it’s 14psi outside of the engine & about 90psi at a 6:1 compression ratio in the cylinders & compressed air creates electrical resistance, so you really need the 17-22kv to fire the plugs when the engine is running. A store bought plug checker (in the picture) will work better than an old plug because it won’t shock the snot out of you like an old plug might!

Post back with results or more questions.



*If you don’t own a spark checker w/ an adjustable gap, buy one. In the meantime, an old spark plug w/ the gap opened to at least ¼” will work. Ground it to a rust & paint free spot on the engine turn the key on & look for a spark.
75 Tips
 
(quoted from post at 19:38:18 09/21/14) " I noticed I could engage the starter whether the key was turned on or off."

That's the way it works. The key just provides current to the coil.

It takes three things for an engine to run: spark at the right time, compression, & fuel/air in the right mixture. For the moment, forget about compression & concentrate on narrowing the problem down to spark or fuel.

There are three very important tools you always need to have in your tool box: a 3 inch piece of wire w/ alligator clips on each end, a spark checker w/ an adjustable gap (* see below) and a 7/16 box end wrench. (see tip # 50 at the link below) And, you really do need a working ammeter on the tractor; it is a very important diagnostic tool. With these tools, you can quickly narrow down most N problems to spark or fuel.

Next time it won't start, check for spark then fuel. First, turn the key on, crank the engine & look at the ammeter. What is the needle doing? Does it show a constant discharge, no movement at all, or does it move back & forth slightly? Next, hook up your spark checker, turn the key on & crank the engine. If the spark jumps the 1/4” gap, you probably don’t have a spark problem. If it won’t jump the ¼” gap, you have a spark problem. If the ammeter needle shows a constant discharge, or doesn’t move at all, that also tells you that you have a spark problem. Jump the ignition switch w/ your jumper wire & see what happens. If it runs, you found the problem. If it doesn’t have spark after you jump the ignition switch, post back for more info on further troubleshooting. (and do not forget to turn the ignition switch off; see tip # 38

Next, check for fuel. Get a can & put it under the carb. Remove the bolt in the bottom of the carb; as long as the fuel is turned on, you should see gas flowing out of the carb. Let it run for at least 30 seconds. If it’s a dribble, or runs for 5 seconds & stops, or none at all, you have solved half the problem: it’s fuel related. If gas flows well out of the carb & only stops when you turn it off at the sediment bowl, chances are very good it’s not a fuel problem.If it does not have gas coming out of the carb at a steady stream w/ the bolt out for at least 30 seconds, you have a fuel problem. First, remove the gas cap. Your vent could be clogged & it vacuum locked. If that doesn’t work, tap the carb bowl w/ a hammer handle in case the float is sticking closed. (don’t whack it w/ the head of the hammer; you can crack the bowl). If you still don’t see gas flowing, the N has three fuel screens; one in the brass elbow, one in the top of the sediment bowl & one on the stem of the sediment bowl in the gas tank. Check the screen in the elbow & the screen in the top of the sediment bowl. (don’t worry about the one in the tank) Both probably need to be cleaned. Put at least 2 gallons in the tank. (and do not forget to turn the gas off; see tip # 9)

There are ways to check for spark & fuel that work & ways that don't. For example, having gas to the carb is nice, but having it past the float is what counts! That’s why removing the 7/16” bolt in the bottom of the carb is the way to check for fuel. And, same thing w/ spark at the plugs. Some folks think that checking for spark means pulling a plug wire off & looking for one. Well, it's the distance the spark jumps at the plug that gives you the info you want. It takes about 17kv to jump a 3/16" gap & 22kv to jump ¼” in the open air. Remember, it’s 14psi outside of the engine & about 90psi at a 6:1 compression ratio in the cylinders & compressed air creates electrical resistance, so you really need the 17-22kv to fire the plugs when the engine is running. A store bought plug checker (in the picture) will work better than an old plug because it won’t shock the snot out of you like an old plug might!

Post back with results or more questions.



*If you don’t own a spark checker w/ an adjustable gap, buy one. In the meantime, an old spark plug w/ the gap opened to at least ¼” will work. Ground it to a rust & paint free spot on the engine turn the key on & look for a spark.
75 Tips

Thank you for the explaination regarding the ignition switch.
Regarding the fuel VS spark. I know I have a very good spark.
I am trying to make sense out of what is going on basd on the way it happened.Prior to driving it it started and ran very well and I was able to throttle up without a problem. The problem began when I was driving up a small hill.I was thinking the gas shifted and debris in the tank clogged the gas flow. When I got the tractor to level ground I did most everything you suggested. One thinhg I did notice was when I pulled off the distributor cap to re check the timing I saw that the blade on the top of the rotor showed a disscoloration primarily at the very edge of the blade Vs an even wear accros the entire edge and I wondered if that was telling me something regarding the way the rotor is contacting the individual spark plug wires. The rotor cap is new and I notice it has significant play in side to side movement when I place it in the distributor shaft. Should that be a tight fit? As I said the rotor is new,and the points are new as well.When I was able to start the tractor it just wouild not stay running and I could not throttle up at all.I pulled the intake hose off and I have good suction into the carb I have good gas flow to the carb it seems like it is something in the carb itself. Do you agree with that thinking?
 
" when I pulled off the distributor cap to re check the timing "

The distributor cap has nothing to do w/ checking timing. You remove the cap to check the point gap. (.025)

Have you checked the timing?

" the blade on the top of the rotor showed a disscoloration primarily at the very edge of the blade Vs an even wear accros the entire edge "

That's normal.

" way the rotor is contacting the individual spark plug wires."

The rotor blade doesn't contact anything. If it does, you will see brass shavings in the distributor, a groove in the cap & it won't run well.

" Should that be a tight fit?"

Yes. Do you have the rotor clip in place on the shaft? (p/n 12213)

" it is something in the carb itself. "

If the spark jumps 1/4" & you have good fuel flow out of the bottom of the carb, then that assumption makes sense.
75 Tips
 

Thanks,
What I meant by checking the timing was that when I installed the points I brought the no. 1 cylinder to the top of its compression stroke and set the point gap, I was just re checking that to make sure nothing had changed for some unknown reason.
I will try again to diagnose the problem and see where it leads me.
 
So in other words, the answer is no, you haven't checked the timing.

Which is fine, because timing isn't your problem.

But, if you want to check the timing, post back & someone will tell you how to do it.

" when I installed the points I brought the no. 1 cylinder to the top of its compression stroke and set the point gap, "

Why?

The cam has four lobes; the high point of any one of them will work just fine to set the point gap.
75 Tips
 
Good to know,
It has been many years since I worked on engines with points and as I remembered it that was the process to do a static timing.I realize that setting the timing involves using a timing light at the engine marks and I have not done that but as you said that is not the problem.
 

If you are sure you had it at TDC are what ever the timing should be at idle you can static time it that way... To check fuel flow issues get a 1/8" brass barbed fitting and some clear plastic hose. Remove the carb drain install the fitting then the hose bend it up above the carb and tie it,,,you have a window into fuel deliver to the carb... Nuttin like see'n and believing...
 
(quoted from post at 09:51:32 09/22/14) Good to know,
It has been many years since I worked on engines with points and as I remembered it that was the process to do a static timing.I realize that setting the timing involves using a timing light at the engine marks and I have not done that but as you said that is not the problem.

"when I installed the points I brought the no. 1 cylinder to the top of its compression stroke and set the point gap,"

That right there may be your problem. You should set the gap with points on top of any one of the four cam lobes. Setting when #1 is a TDC does NOT ensure that you are on top if a point cam lobe! An incorrect gap (especially too small) will cut spark intensity badly, to the extent that they will not pull or reach full rpm.
 

We sell tractor parts! We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today.

Back
Top