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Ford 9N, 2N & 8N Discussion Forum
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Re: No Hydraulic Action

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Royse

08-07-2014 19:18:09
69.36.49.186



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You're probably right about it having lost prime.

Especially if it worked before.

Looks to me like you have the original vane style pump, but

maybe some aftermarket plumbing on there.

Is there a place to add oil to prime, or at least to let air out?




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Tall T

08-08-2014 00:18:11
24.108.0.163



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 Re: No Hydraulic Action in reply to Royse, 08-07-2014 19:18:09  
Do old original vane pumps, if un-rebuilt till now, get noisy

as they approach replacement time?

I now know why the Hat rims became a rust problem. Some water got into the bolt pocket via the threads on the top side, but the killer was the carriage bolt head on the backside, not having full hat ring metal under it cause the square boss is too close to the edge . . .
I should have poured on the sealant more there and not worried about the squeeze out. A nornal gasket under the bolt head doesn't get flattened enough there and the squared part of the bolt shaft is right against the inside wheel side of the Hat ring -- TOO close. I should have put way more on the entire squared section of the shaft rather than my emphasis being under the head and only a partial way UP the squared shaft . . . because the bolt head has only got a thin edge of metal to squeeze against there at the edge.
A squared leather washer "might" have been good . . . contemplated it but just wanted the darned thing rolling again.

The edge of the inner side of the bolt boss isn't perfectly plane with the channel surface at each bolt so a gasket there might make leakage worse. A square, tight O-ring. :)
chaio,

T

So driving through a creek or something would flood the channel with water mostly getting in under the overhanging bolt heads in the back.

Outside, my disks can kind of breathe and maybe that's good.

The bolts are encircled with compressed oiled leather between disk and hat ring.

The leathers on the up side also keep the flat washers from rust-welding themselves to the disk.

But also on the top side the bolt is too close to the edge as you can see, but at least there, there is a way better shoulder for the leather to get squeezed against at the edge -- not so with the bottom edge -- I mean the channel's edge on the in-side of the wheel.

Service procedure for hat rims

Thoroughly clean the overhanging bolt head area with alcohol or something that won't harm the paint, and give them a generous hit of sealant . . . under the lip.

And surround the bolt head if there is no sealant under the heads at all.

I'd rather do all that or something like it

than drill holes to let trapped water out. :)
If I can keep it bone dry in there, that present rust won't get worse.

Anyway, enough rambling,

Cheers,

Terry
This post was edited by Tall T at 01:06:28 08/08/14 3 times.

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Tall T

08-07-2014 19:35:54
24.108.0.163



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 Re: No Hydraulic Action in reply to Royse, 08-07-2014 19:18:09  
Thanks men!

GOOD NEWS from your resident worry wort.

I just went out to start it up again and the hydraulics are performing perfectly now, so obviously it primed itself.

Royse, I went out and looked for a bleed spot just as you were writing that probably but don't see one. I was thinking I might just have to disconnect the line where it enters the pump and draw from there till I had solid fluid.

I respectfully disagree about the addition of the hydraulic filter and service guage being a monster in the making. I'm betting I have a pretty clean sump. :D
But thanks for the great idea Zane about filling the filter!!

Thanks for coming to the rescue!
Terry

I hadn't actually looked at my restored emblem up front till a minute ago, as the tractor was nose to the wall when I removed and reinstalled it.


This post was edited by Tall T at 19:38:27 08/07/14.

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Ultradog MN

08-08-2014 04:38:32
174.20.241.188



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 Re: No Hydraulic Action in reply to Tall T, 08-07-2014 19:35:54  
Lot of those tractors ran for a lot of years and millions of hours without any filtration at all.
So I would say it's not crucial.
Yours wont hurt anything for sure but Zane is correct. And it is more exposed stuff to get hit and more places to leak or lose prime.
Ford didn't filter the hyd oil untill 1976. On the 26/3600 tractors they went to a gear pump which had the filter right on it.

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Tall T

08-08-2014 08:39:03
24.108.0.163



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 Re: No Hydraulic Action in reply to Ultradog MN, 08-08-2014 04:38:32  
That's a beauty; a pump with a filter mount.

I like it!

I'm in no way going to imply that every tractor should have one

just because I happen to.

My tractor came this way is all.

I see what you mean about the hazards of the filter hitting something depending on the uses the tractor is put to. There would have to be some kind of protective guard around it in some cases I suppose.

I searched a WIX catalogue in the Hydraulic section and found every number surrounding mine but not mine exactly. so yesterday when ordering some 15W40 Amsoil for a friend, I ordered another Wix Hydraulic but they had to cross the number to a Donaldson.

I'm going to have to do some dub-checking.

As you know, when you simply follow what someone has done or installed before, you are sometimes blindly assuming they had it right. At first I crossed the Kralinator number to the WIX I just put on.

So maybe my filter housing is so old, that the number ceased to be listed in some catalogues. Wix 51259

Cheers,

Gatemouth Graham 8)

P.S.

Vane pump article including pitfalls of suction side filtration!!

http://www.insidersecretstohydraulics.com/vane-pump.html
This post was edited by Tall T at 08:57:53 08/08/14.

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TheOldHokie

08-08-2014 09:37:06
71.176.182.141



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 Re: No Hydraulic Action in reply to Tall T, 08-08-2014 08:39:03  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

Filtration is great but pump starvation is not.
The chances of the filter hitting something are slim. The chances of ripping off the underside hydraulic lines on an NAA is orders of magnitude greater - dozens of documented cases of that.

Modern hydraulic systems use a strainer on the suction side and a filter on the return side. I'd strongly suggest using a Zinga AE-100 or equivalent wire mesh spin-on element in place of that paper element. You might have to replace the head to get it to fit but a Zinga AEF head is cheaper that a typical filter.

TOH

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ZANE

08-08-2014 04:33:18
98.83.59.153



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 Re: No Hydraulic Action in reply to Tall T, 08-07-2014 19:35:54  
One of the greatest enemys of the hydraulic systems on these Ford tractors is any restriction in the suction side of the hydraulics. The pump is prone to draw in air at the shaft seal and the more the restriction the more air. These pumps won't pump air. It just lets the air pulse and no oil will flow. Even when Ford did put a filter in the later tractors it was in the dump side of the system and under pressure. Not on the suction side.

Zane

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Tall T

08-08-2014 08:26:36
24.108.0.163



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 Re: No Hydraulic Action in reply to ZANE, 08-08-2014 04:33:18  
Thanks Zane . . . filter on the pressure side sounds good.

I don't know yet but I am thinking that hydraulic filters may actually be "designed" for the suction side as well and as such would be less restrictive with a possibly less fine filter medium

and lower pressure relief to facilitate by-passing, for when the filter medium is saturated.

Now to put the new gage on the filter mount to see what it tells me.

I forget where I saved this from:

"The OMT range of filters fits into return lines of hydraulic circuits (pressure up to 20 bar), suction lines and medium/high pressure lines (100/420bar).

Depending on the models, they can be equipped with accessories like differential clogging indicators (visual and electric), pressure gauges, pressure switches, by pass valves etc."

So here's something to ponder.

Suppose some people had just measured the filter gasket and put any spin on there that would fit. Any restricted flow would then be attributed to the filter system itself and such systems would then get a bad rap.

Cheers,

Terry

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