just wont run

Khop

New User
I have a ford 8n front mounted dist. And it will
not start freshly rebuilt new internals, manifold,
carb, the whole 9 yards! It is in time and getting
fire but I have tried and tried to crank it the
plugs should be soaked in fuel right! the firing
order is right 1243! And the tractor will want to
hit but it ain"t enough to run without the starter
turning it over! any advice!
 
Tried starting fluid in the carb air horn?

Does the rotor turn counterclockwise or clockwise in an 8N?
 
if it is a fresh rebuilt engine, and you are still on points.. try starting it with a 12v battery instead of the original 6v one.

that or pull start it. they can be tight the first start after a rebuild.
 
It is a 12v system and have tried starting fluid! It
sounds no different with it! Haven"t tried pull
starting it! I"m wondering how come it isn"t
soaking the plugs in fuel it use to before the
rebuild and now its like its not getting enough
 
" the plugs should be soaked in fuel"

Plugs should not be wet. They are gas fouled. Removed them and burn off the gas with a propane torch. Try again and do not use the choke!
 
Khop,Try removing the plugs and wash them off with some lacquer thinner or heat up the tips with a propane torch.Put about a teaspoon of motor oil down each plug hole before replacing the plugs.Check the firing order one more time 1243 before putting on the wires.check the wires foe correct placement in the distributor cap.You said it has good spark ,will it jump a 1/4" gap or more? If so give it a snort of starting fluid and try to start it.
 
First, as others have said, replace the plugs. If you flooded it, they're fouled & it will be it next to impossible to start. You don't need to toss them; heat the tips for a few seconds w/ a propane torch to burn off the invisible spark-robbing deposits from today's additive filled gasoline........or wash them in lacquer thinner.

Next, put the battery on a charger.

You need a strong battery to:

1. Close the solenoid

2. Spin the starter

3. Engage the bendix

4. Provide voltage to the coil.

As the battery gets weaker, the first thing to fail is your spark. If the battery is almost totally dead, all you will hear is the solenoid clicking.

The more current you use to spin the starter, the less you have for the ignition.

Next, make sure you have battery voltage at the top of the coil (points open) and about half that w/ points closed.

Confirm your firing order, 1-2-3-4, CCW.

Lastly, pull the plugs & add a tablespoon of oil to each cylinder just before you try to start it. And pull starting it would be best.

Post back w/ results or more questions.
75 Tips
 
Is there any suction at the carb when you hold your hand over when trying to start?

I had a NEW manifold that had an internal flaw and the intake had a leak internally to the exhaust. It would run only on two cylinders. Put on old manifold and ran fine but it was broken and could not hook up exhaust pipe.

Held hands to seal manifold intake at engine side and poured water into intake at carb (manifold upside down) and water ran out of exhaust ports.
 
It is a 12v system and have tried starting fluid! It
sounds no different with it! Haven"t tried pull
starting it! I"m wondering how come it isn"t
soaking the plugs in fuel it use to before the
rebuild and now its like its not getting enough
 
Manifold isn't leaking either! Done the water test on it and it had descent suction on the carb! If done checked everything but pulling it
 
When you pull plugs can you smell raw fuel at the plug hole?

Did you spray starting fluid right at the carb throat WHILE CRANKING it over -- as opposed to BEFORE you depressed the starter button?
 
There is an adjustment plate on the left side of the distributor. Move it down to advance the spark. That may be your problem, if no, move it up to retard. Five minutes and you'll know if this is it.
 
I have sprayed starting fluid in it then tried to crank it but not while the motor was turning over and it has a burnt kinda gasy smell to it
 
Since you've rebuilt everything have you checked gas flow through the carb by removing drain plug? Could also be sticky float needle?
 
OK I left the tail pipe/muffler of and the manifold
seems to be sucking air in on the exhaust! The
cam and the crank are dot to dot! There are four
little bolts that hold that cam gear on! Near as I
can tell there isn't but one way that all the holes
will line up on it am I wrong or rite?
 
Well . . . to really do the starting fluid test the best, spray while cranking.

But do the last suggestion about the carb drain plug and if fuel DOESN"T appear to be your problem, then I would STATIC time it over again. I'm not sure what you mean by the engine being "in time" but here's how I would static time it.

1. Bring #1 piston up to TDC on the compression stroke.

2. Make sure the rotor is pointing to the #1 dist. cap pole.

3. Loosen the dist clamp bolt and rotate the dist COUNTERCLOCKWISE until the points rubbing block is just to the left of a cam high point and the points are closed.

4. Turn the key on and gently rotate the dist just a little CLOCKWISE until the points open and SPARK. (because the rotor travels CCW)

5. Tighten the clamp bolt right there and electrically speaking it has to start.
 
His dist is a front mount and only should go on one way,an offset tang on back of dist fits in a slot... Have you verified spark yet?
 
I know this is a front mounted distributor. The advise I gave was for a front mounted distributor. They have a side adjustment plate.
 

That correction was for my eyes only Charner.
I forgot it was a front mounted dist. DOH!
 
Good man tall t
Has Khop figured out his fuel or spark?
Definitely was not aimed at you Mr Charner
Cuz my aims not so good lol
 
Tried pull starting the tractor and I think the
engine is firing on the exhaust stroke because
wen we was pulling it, it kept back firing out the
exhaust like the timing is 180° off on the
camshaft and crsnkshaft gears! I think if I leave
the crankshaft still on TDC and turn the
camshaft one full round that will put me firing
on the compression stroke right?? I am
however getting good gas flow up to the engine
and spark! timing in the dist. Is almost perfect!
 
The first thing I would double or triple check would be the firing order. Something has to be wrong and that's pretty easy to check. If you are 110% sure that's right then I'd suspect that the camshaft timing is off. A compression check should verify that.

Rick
 
In your first post you said, "freshly rebuilt new internals".

Just what exactly does that mean?

Does it include installing the crankshaft and camshaft gears?
If so, do you remember lining up the marks on the gears?

You can also be backfiring out the exhaust by being severely retarded.

Do your plug wires in the dist cap run CCW according to the firing order?

TDC has to be TDC on the compression stroke as you know. A finger tight against #1 plug hole when the piston is coming up will tell you by air pressure trying to get past your finger that it is the compression stroke.

On overhead valve engines, you can watch the #1 intake valve closing (tappet coming upwards) to know that the compression stroke will be the next upward movement of #1 piston --provided the crankshaft is being turned in the right running direction.

What I've always done is to stand a tall screwdriver in the plug hole with a string or something to keep it vertical so it doesn't get pinched. Rotating the engine with the fan blades and finding TDC, stopping just when the piston is ready to begin its power stroke descent can be nice and precise --
 
The spark plug wires aren't crossed ive checked
them a dozen times! And any advice about
setting the timing any little certain things I
maybe missing!
 

I'm repeating myself . . . but we're not talking "crossed" plug wires.

Do they go 1243 COUNTERCLOCKWISE ON THE CAP??

I've just got to know. :D
 
Looks like its time to take dist off,timing is real easy with these machines. It's in the FO4 manuel or do a quick search on here for front mount timing,there are plenty of pictures from previous posts
 
easy things first

your compression test will tell you a lot about valve health and timing from outside the engine.

those pesky front mounts.
after you are totally sure of the spark plug wires location
and rotation.....check em again
(I use an ohm meter, 1 lead at the cap, 1 at the plug, especially if you are still running that wire tube)
If any doubt, a spark checker at the plug on 1, turn the engine
manually until it sparks, stop, move it to 2 , continue turn, move to 4, then 3. or whatever the firing order is (careful, spark in the hole can make a good, tight, motor start or cough, even turning very slowly. a grounded plug and transfer the wires one at a time when turning to check order is safer, but won't tell you spark condition in the hole. Transferring an inductive timing light, wire to wire on your slow turn is best of both worlds)
Never do this test with a magneto tractor. They WILL start.

If on your rebuild, you put on a new cap and rotor, check to see if the rotor is still in one piece.
I've had many import rotors/cap break, and if it breaks and when rotating, it could throw a spark anywhere.
sometimes, a no start, with big bangs out the exhaust....dang rotor broke again.....

while timing a front mount is important of course,
every one I've owned will start and run with the slider in any position in its range

ps I'd also pull the distributor again and make sure of the correct slot engagement. I haven't seen one myself, but have read that when very worn, it is possible to get em on there wrong
 
Khop, you still there?... Verify fuel, air and spark...taking that dist off is 2 bolts and a wire... Easy peesy ... Get back to us and we'll figure. It out!!
 
Dist. Is fine had the slot right on it mine won't
go on but one way! everything there looks fine!
Now about the spark plug wire tube is it pretty
common that it grounds the wires out or whats
the deal with it?
 
" is it pretty common that it grounds the wires out or whats the deal with it?"

No.

What the problem is that you have bad plug wires if they are grounding in the conduit.
75 Tips
 
(quoted from post at 09:53:04 07/17/14) Dist. Is fine had the slot right on it mine won't
go on but one way! everything there looks fine!
Now about the spark plug wire tube is it pretty
common that it grounds the wires out or whats
the deal with it?

Both of mine have the tube for the plug wires and I have no problem with it.

Now I know you are frustrated. But if it's backfiring when you are trying to start it it's most likely a timing issue. Now the distributer only goes in one way. So you can't have it 180 out unless A. the cam timing is wrong or B. the plug wires are not hooked up right. So you either take the front of the engine apart and check the cam timing or you make sure the plug wires are right. To me it seems that the plug wire check would be simple while pulling the timing cover off isn't. The counter clockwise rotation is from the drivers seat, not as you are looking at it. There are a lot of people trying to help you but you don't seem to want to listen. You get frustrated enough you will either pay someone to fix it for you, sell it or go back and check everything again.

Rick
 

Now we're getting somewhere I think. :)

I don't have an 8N but my Jubilee rotor runs CLOCKWISE!
Distributor rotation is "named" by facing the distributor itself, not from the driver's seat.

So . . .
He may have his distributor wires in a counterclockwise rotation while facing it as you are suggesting.

All the times I've asked about wire placement he has never actually said; he would only say that the wires weren't "crossed". He also wouldn't tell me if installing the timing and crank gears was a part of the engine work he did. So as you say, helping becomes somewhat of a crapshoot.

In short, if the rotor rotation is the same in an 8N as it is in my NAA then an 8N also has a CLOCKWISE rotor rotation.

Terry
 
"....if the rotor rotation is the same in an 8N as it is in my NAA ...."

It's not.

It's counterclockwise.
DSC03473.jpg

75 Tips
 
Just an observation here.........

Over the past four days, you've had about 11 different people offer you assistance. Some of us more than once.

As oldtanker & Tall T both observed, you are not being responsive to our suggestions. I'm not going to say you are ignoring us because you may well be trying some of what has been suggested......but you are not communicating that at all.

The end result is that those trying to help you will run out patience. And I'll guarantee you that the answer to your problem has already been provided by at least one of us.

So what say you go back & read the replies & tell us what you've done & what you haven't done.

The picture is the firing order off the cap.
DSC03473.jpg

75 Tips
 
Timing marks on my cam and crank do not line
up on my ford! The cam gear and the crank gear
marks are/is 4 teeth apart from each other and
the tractor runs perfect fires up as soon as I hit
the starter now! My tractor is out of time when
the marks are aligned!
 

Happy for you!

Only thing that comes to mind is the meshing (fitting) of the cam shaft worm gear and the distributor shaft gear -- because it is not mechanically logical for the marks to not be aligned on the cam sprocket and crankshaft gear.
 

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