8n Funk 6 cyl 12 volt wiring - 4 post solenoid

I bought a non running Funk without a starter or solenoid awhile back and still haven't figured out the wiring to get it running.

Good or bad I bought and installed a new 12 v mini starter with internal solenoid and installed a 4 post solenoid. I installed and wired the starter and solenoid as per the instructions that came with the new starter. I had tried a 3 post but when I went back and looked at the pictures the PO gave me of the original starter and solenoid (that was lost) I noticed the solenoid in the pic was 4 post, which makes more sense.

This is what I have.

At (new-just like the old one) key switch - 2 terminals, 4 wires
-at one terminal- (one wire) -red wire to ampmeter
-at other terminal- 3 wires
---1 to a kill switch that then goes to the coil
---1 to alternator but I don't think they're hooked up because it dangles at alternator.
---1 to starter area (orange). Has smaller connector at starter area which makes me think it went on a smaller middle post at solenoid.

At amp meter- 2 posts, 3 wires
-One post: one wire
---one wire- red to alternator
-second post: 2 wires
---1 red wire from key switch
---separate 2nd red wire to starter area. At starter area it has a larger connector as if it was on larger BATT post of solenoid.

That puts 4 wires at starter area (plus 1 wire from internal solenoid):
-1- battery ( +)
-2 - black directly from push button starter. It has smaller connector as if it was on the smaller middle post of solenoid.
-3- orange wire from key (smaller connector)
-4- red from amp meter (larger connector)

I think at 4 post external solenoid:
- at Batt post=
---batt (+)
---amp meter (red)
---cable to post of actual starter

-at one small post (for "starter") =
---black push button starter button (SO WHAT SHOULD HAPPEN: pushing button = completing ground, opening circuit, and energizing wire on other external solenoid post that goes to internal solenoid, spinning starter. When let go of starter button, ground is interrupted and starter SHOULD stop spinning)

-at other "4th" small post (for "ignition") =
---orange key wire

Other large external solenoid post= wire to internal solenoid plug.


WHAT HAPPENS-
-turn key and nothing

ALSO-
-starter spins when you jump it from internal solenoid to starter post
-if I hook orange wire from key to "starter" post of solenoid and turn key and starter spins WITHOUT PUSHING STARTER BUTTON!

I put in a new key switch (same as old).
I put in a new starter button, mini starter with internal solenoid, 4 post solenoid.
Tested ammeter and it's good, but does not jump when turn key.


How am I to wire this?
What am I doing wrong?

Head hurt yet?
Mine does.

Thanks in advance!

trying photos

wiring diagram

trying 2nd photo

photo

Before anyone can help you, you need to find out what pins are in that plug on your new starter & what signal each requires to activate the starter. Anything short of that is a guessing game.

JMOR - it's just a blade plug in thingy. I'll try to post a pic.
Starter seller said it's just a basic set up and didn't mention
anything about pins etc.

OK, then try applying battery power to that starter spade lug and if that doesn't activate it, try applying ground. One orthe other should make it try to crank over the engine. BE SURE TRANSMISSION IN NEUTRAL.

(quoted from post at 17:11:17 04/21/14) OK, then try applying battery power to that starter spade lug and if that doesn't activate it, try applying ground. One orthe other should make it try to crank over the engine. BE SURE TRANSMISSION IN NEUTRAL.

Click to expand...

K, never mind that last question, I re-read your initial post & see where batt pos applied to new starter spade activates it. Do you have a part number for the new 4 post solenoid?.........and, what is this "kill switch"??

Thanks so far JMOR.
Sorry for delays. Work gets in the way of everything.
NAPA solenoid part number - ST81SB
I even tried - STH404 originally but felt ST81SB was a cleaner
mount and set up. Same response with both.

Kill switch is in line between key switch and coil. (Please see
crude wiring diagram.)

(quoted from post at 18:53:52 04/23/14) Thanks so far JMOR.
Sorry for delays. Work gets in the way of everything.
NAPA solenoid part number - ST81SB
I even tried - STH404 originally but felt ST81SB was a cleaner
mount and set up. Same response with both.

Click to expand...

an you mark up your earlier schematic to reflect the wiring around st81 of your latest photo? Also, what is the kill switch? How about pictures of it?

Later: I marked it up according to my understanding of your picture & written description. If this is the way you have it wired, then it is nearly OK. Needs the ammeter change (back to the way you had it before hashed out). Being the 1-wire alternator, it only needs the one wire I marked & dump the small black from ign sw.
Now the BIGGIE! Wrong solenoid! You need ST-542.
I still need some info on the "kill switch", which I expect is a ballast resistor.

Then you should be all set to crank it up.

I"ll try post pic of kill switch. All I know is it"s inline between key
switch and coil - as in wiring diagram. Up is "on". Not that that
matters.

I do know from the guy that"s helping me that we have had spark
at the points.

Today"s the day: I picked up the new ST-542 solenoid last night
and will install it and wire it up as in your diagram. Yes, your
finished diagram at the solenoid / starter is primarily how I tried to
wire it, but when it didn"t work I tried different things. I can"t
remember how the ammeter and key switch were originally wired
but I can go back and look at original pictures I took. I believe it
was as you diagramed.

Wish me Luck!
I"ll keep you posted.
And many THANKS!

Success!
THANKS JMOR!!!

Success as far as wiring the starter goes. All I did was swap in the
new ST-542 solenoid you suggested and the starter worked as it
should!
I can't tell you exactly how I have the ammeter wired - I paid
attention but can't remember! I think it's the way I had it originally
drawn. If it isn't like your diagram I'll change the ammeter to the
way you have it. But if it works, does it really matter?

Also, we have the red wire from the ammeter going directly to the
post on the STARTER, because the copper solenoid post isn't long
enough to accommodate 3 wires (see your diagram) So, once
again, But if it works, does it really matter? My concerns are is it
charging the battery properly the way I have it wired or must I
make it like yours? AND, how do I wire up headlights and work
lights with this set up?

The ring gear is bad, so we didn't want to beat the new bendix up
too bad so we drug the Funk with the other tractor to bump start
it. But it wouldn't start because the plug wires were wrong at the
distributor. The firing order was correct but we had to move them
back counter clockwise one. Then she ran fine after warming up
and doing a little brush hogging for about 20 - 30 minutes. But
then she died as if she ran out of gas. I think there was enough
gas but I put 5 gallons in anyway. Ran for less than 5 min then
died again. Restarted and ran only one to three minutes several
times, enough so I could get it put away. So, a new problem. Other
problems are the 3 point won't lift, and the pto won't shift in and
out easily. I'll start new threads if I can't figure it all out.

Thanks again JMOR!!!!

(quoted from post at 12:45:55 04/29/14) Success!
THANKS JMOR!!!

Success as far as wiring the starter goes. All I did was swap in the
new ST-542 solenoid you suggested and the starter worked as it
should!
I can't tell you exactly how I have the ammeter wired - I paid
attention but can't remember! I think it's the way I had it originally
drawn. If it isn't like your diagram I'll change the ammeter to the
way you have it. But if it works, does it really matter?

Also, we have the red wire from the ammeter going directly to the
post on the STARTER, because the copper solenoid post isn't long
enough to accommodate 3 wires (see your diagram) So, once
again, But if it works, does it really matter? My concerns are is it
charging the battery properly the way I have it wired or must I
make it like yours? AND, how do I wire up headlights and work
lights with this set up?

The ring gear is bad, so we didn't want to beat the new bendix up
too bad so we drug the Funk with the other tractor to bump start
it. But it wouldn't start because the plug wires were wrong at the
distributor. The firing order was correct but we had to move them
back counter clockwise one. Then she ran fine after warming up
and doing a little brush hogging for about 20 - 30 minutes. But
then she died as if she ran out of gas. I think there was enough
gas but I put 5 gallons in anyway. Ran for less than 5 min then
died again. Restarted and ran only one to three minutes several
times, enough so I could get it put away. So, a new problem. Other
problems are the 3 point won't lift, and the pto won't shift in and
out easily. I'll start new threads if I can't figure it all out.

Thanks again JMOR!!!!

Click to expand...

ed starter to ammeter vs solenoid to ammeter does not matter.........it is just battery to ammeter connection any way you do it.
If you don't connect the wires on the other terminal (left on drawing), where two are on load side & ONLY one (battery) to other side, then your ammeter will register only charging current & never show any load current. The load current would come directly from battery via starter terminal & never pass through ammeter. Still charge OK, though.
For lights, pick up power at the left ammeter terminal, go to switch & from switch to lights. Stick a fuse inline if you like.

As for the assistance, you are very welcome!