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Ford 9N, 2N & 8N Discussion Forum
Show Parts for Model:

Re: 9N will NOT Start!

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JMOR

02-13-2014 06:44:28
72.181.173.171



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Seems like you have covered most bases. That said, fuel to & out carb drain does not mean any fuel reaches cylinders. One way to test that is to use starting fluid, which you did, BUT, if previous starting attempts flooded the engine & washed down the plugs with liquid gasoline, then the contaminants will often leak off the spark energy without producing a spark. Fresh plugs or burn existing plugs off with a propane torch & re-try starting fluid with gasoline valve turned OFF.

Your numbers look nominally OK, either points or EI. You have a good spark, so no need to root around in that area anyway.

One uncovered base is likely a long shot, but I don't know the total history since last ran. That is when is the spark occurring? Yes, I saw the 1/4 inch timing note, but there is still plenty of opportunity for the spark to NOT be occurring at TDC-compression stroke. Need to verify that. A starting point would be that wires in distributor are CCW, 1243 and cylinders are numbered 1234 radiator toward steering wheel.

[URL=http://s192.photobucket.com/user/JMOR_photo/media/Ign/fire_order-1.jpg.html][/URL]
This post was edited by JMOR at 06:57:57 02/13/14.

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Ray PA

02-13-2014 07:23:12
151.213.56.126



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 Re: 9N will NOT Start! in reply to JMOR, 02-13-2014 06:44:28  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

Thanks Guys, I did verify the correct firing order and have tried both burning the plugs and brand new ones. I havent manually verified TDC (old screw driver in the cylinder trick i guess?) but will. Two questions:

1. Have you ever heard of the camshaft gear stripping/skipping/breaking? There have been no unusual noises while cranking etc but just a thought

2. Is it worth trying to adjust the static timing so it's significantly before or after TDC? as I recall (but not sure)original points were adjusted way up (ie advanced) almost to limit of adj travel

BTW, it's a balmy 22 deg here today, 15 deg warmer than last week or so. Maybe the heater???

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JMOR

02-13-2014 07:36:24
72.181.173.171



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 Re: 9N will NOT Start! in reply to Ray PA, 02-13-2014 07:23:12  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to seeYes, gears jump, slip, shear, etc. Don't worry with timing as far as run or not run, as the range of adjustment on these are so limited that they will run at just about any setting you try.

No screwdriver in cylinder as spark plug is over valves & not over piston. With a mirror & good light though you can observe the valves & even probe them with a stiff wire.

[URL=http://s192.photobucket.com/user/JMOR_photo/media/Engine/sparkplug_location.jpg.html][/URL]

[URL=http://s192.photobucket.com/user/JMOR_photo/media/Engine/combustion_chamber.jpg.html][/URL]

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Ray PA

02-13-2014 08:09:09
151.213.56.126



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 Re: 9N will NOT Start! in reply to JMOR, 02-13-2014 07:36:24  
Thanks JMOR, Henry sure made troubleshooting this "simple" tractor quite hard!! I guess next step would be a compression check with actual gage (eliminate valve timing posibility) and verifying spark at TDC +/-. Can you "feel" the piston move with a stiff wire? Otherwise how do you manually verify TDC???



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JMOR

02-13-2014 10:41:33
72.181.173.171



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 Re: 9N will NOT Start! in reply to Ray PA, 02-13-2014 08:09:09  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to seeCompression test can be informative. Wire to feel piston for TDC is "iffy" & you will most likely feel that you can't be sure trying that method. Wire has to be snaked thru hole around edge of cylinder & is subject to movement by valves. Pee poor method. Generally if there is a cam/crank timing problem , it is gross, not just a few degrees one way or another, so simply 'carefully' & as 'slowly' as possible, feel for beginning of compression & then for end of compression. Then look to see if rotor is pointing at least generally toward #1 at distributor. I can give you a full 6 or 7 methods of finding TDC-compression with varying degrees of precision, but most all are too much trouble, take too long, etc. Point is that close is generally good enough, since one cam/crank gear tooth will change ign timing by 16.36 degrees. If gear problems result in such misalignment so as to make it not run, it will likely be large enough that you will eyeball that by observing rotor position. You can try multiple observations until you feel confident that you have a good average that either looks OK or not.

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Ray PA

02-13-2014 19:12:52
151.213.58.185



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 Re: 9N will NOT Start! in reply to JMOR, 02-13-2014 10:41:33  
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Found something interesting on the compression check but it doesn't seem to me it would prevent it from starting. cylinders 1,2,3 hit around 90 psi but 4 was only 35 psi. Obviously problems there but it should still fire on 1,2,3. I will try the autolight plugs but if the H-12s are already sparking I don't see what difference it will make. thoughts??

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JMOR

02-14-2014 07:01:12
72.181.173.171



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 Re: 9N will NOT Start! in reply to Ray PA, 02-13-2014 19:12:52  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to seeAgree, should start & run on three, but you will have to address 35 eventually. Different brand plugs won't make a non runner run, but different fresh plugs of any brand might. What are the odds of buying 4 plugs & getting 4 bad plugs? Even if a couple were OK, it would fire. There is more that you haven't found yet, or more likely something that you have declared OK that isn't.

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Ray PA

02-15-2014 07:02:36
151.213.58.185



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 Re: 9N will NOT Start! in reply to JMOR, 02-14-2014 07:01:12  
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OK, thanks to all for the suggestions. One last way out there thought, is it possible the plugs are NOT grounding when screwed in? There is some rust around the plug hole but threads look ok. I'll take the following steps and let you all know:

1. Stiff wire chk for TDC

2. Try adv/retarding timing to limits

3. Spark checker (if I can find one)

4. Wait till Friday (supposed to be 50 deg here, if starts then block heater prob best winter solution)

5. Recheck elec/fuel systems

6. Push it off a Cliff!!

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Ray PA

02-13-2014 11:26:04
208.101.142.238



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 Re: 9N will NOT Start! in reply to JMOR, 02-13-2014 10:41:33  
I'll try the compression check and feel for TDC and get back to you but probably not till tomorrow. Got to go to work now. Thanks all, keep the ideas coming



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