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Ford 9N, 2N & 8N Discussion Forum
Show Parts for Model:

no hydraulic cylinders!!!

Author  [Modern View]
wmiller

01-24-2014 13:27:55
24.114.40.111



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OK, so further to my getting a replacement hyd cyl for the Dearborn loader.....CANT GET ONE!!!
thought this shop I went to the other day could hook me up, but they cant. So now I am left with a bucket cylinder that leaks and hold no pressure. Can you still get parts for these old cylinders? (loader is a Dearborn 19-23) I don't thin it would be too difficult to rebuild one of these providing the piston and cylinder itself isn't scratched. The old cylinder itself is structural to the frame of the loader so it would be very difficult to just fit an after market cylinder in its place. any thoughts as to what to do here guys? anyone rebuild one of these cylinders? Need help....loaders dead in the water.

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Hobo,NC

02-02-2014 18:47:54
98.17.178.20



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 Re: no hydraulic cylinders!!! in reply to Jor'NMo, 01-24-2014 13:27:55  
If these Cly will work I will call Bob and see what he can do about shipping them... He's a local transplanted Yankee :D
http://raleigh.craigslist.org/grd/4290021427.html



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Ed Douglas

01-25-2014 12:42:48
50.122.176.70



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 Re: no hydraulic cylinders!!! in reply to wmiller, 01-24-2014 13:27:55  
The boys gave you lots of good info for sure and options......I had two cylinders repaired by a local hydraulic repair shop.....when I figured my time....parts availability ...and so on...hands down.....the shop....
turned around in 3 or 4 days.....I remember thinking that the price was reasonable at the time.



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wmiller

01-25-2014 07:45:23
216.37.116.53



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 Re: no hydraulic cylinders!!! in reply to wmiller, 01-24-2014 13:27:55  
WOW....thanks guys, great info!!!
Looks pretty easy....will definitely give this a shot. I guess I should have mentioned that I live in Canada, so don't have access to the same names as far as suppliers go. But I could always order if I cant find something local. We have a huge chain up here called Princes Auto. Big mechanical supplier, kind of like Lee Valley.
But they have a big specialty hydraulics section.
I talked to them before about obtaining rebuild parts for cylinders and they said that they only carry parts for their own cylinders. But I am hoping that if the size is the same then the fit might be universal.

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TheOldHokie

01-25-2014 08:37:06
71.176.181.213



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 Re: no hydraulic cylinders!!! in reply to wmiller, 01-25-2014 07:45:23  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

Your parts are older generic style seals not commonly used in modern cylinders. Here is a source with Canadian distribution that should have everything you need:

Hercules Sealing Products

TOH



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howdy1960

01-25-2014 07:16:42
173.191.200.92



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 Re: no hydraulic cylinders!!! in reply to wmiller, 01-24-2014 13:27:55  
TOH gave a couple pics and they are spot on. No hidden springs to wonder where they came from where they went and no figuring out how to put tthem back once you find em lol

The cup with a hole in it you need 2 per cylinder and are #15 in the other pic. They are what permits the cylinder to move. The V-packing is is to keep the fluid inside the cylinder. I was able to replace the cups without removing the cylinder from loader frame. That was just me and don't have a real workshop to work in (My vise is currently under a ft. of snow) plus I only needed to remove 1 line. I figured using a large pipe wrench towards the end away from threaded part I was less likely to crush it. In my case I was successful. Reinstalling was the hardest part as 1 cup faces backwards and needs to be carefully inserted inside. Oil cup and take your time. Time outs when frustrated is a great idea!

I realize I babble saying how I do things but I'm not an ole hand at most this stuff. In fact the only hydraulic cylinders I have done are on my FEL

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TheOldHokie

01-25-2014 03:29:24
71.176.181.213



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 Re: no hydraulic cylinders!!! in reply to Dean, 01-24-2014 13:27:55  

wmiller said: (quoted from post at 01:26:12 01/25/14) Well, I really have nothing to lose by attempting a rebuild. Who knows, I may get lucky and be successful! If not I will have to figure out a way to modify the mount and install an after market cylinder......I guess the next move is to take it apart. I have done a lot of mechanical things but have never taken apart a hyd cyl before.
Any help, advice or tips would be appreciated!!

Thanks guy!!!


The parts diagram I posted should be pretty self explanatory and the parts are generic items avaiable form a good MRO supplier - I get most of my stuff from Mcmaster Carr.

The trunion simply unscrews from the rod end of the cylinder and the piston cups (item #14) are sandwiched to the threaded end of the rod with some spacers/washers and a nut. Measure the old cups and get yourself a couple new ones.



Replace the chevron packing rings (item #8 ) with new packing. Measure the total height of the old stack and order a top and bottom ring plus enough intermediate rings to get the required thickness. The rings seal under compression and the new stack should be about 1 ring taller than the old one.



The rod wiper (item #6) may be harder to match up but it is not a pressure seal and if McMaster doesn't have one that will work and the old one is not badly damaged I'd reuse it. Total cost for the parts is probably about $30-$40 including the shipping.

TOH

PS> The o-ring is also a generic part available from the same source. Probably have to buy a bag of five ;-)
This post was edited by TheOldHokie at 04:27:09 01/25/14 3 times.

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howdy1960

01-24-2014 21:04:18
173.191.200.92



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 Re: no hydraulic cylinders!!! in reply to wmiller, 01-24-2014 13:27:55  
Have same cylinders on my 19-61 Wagner FEL. Just went to hydraulic shop got 4 cup packings and replaced them myself. Real easy repair. Bucket no longer settles.



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wmiller

01-24-2014 21:26:12
24.114.39.215



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 Re: no hydraulic cylinders!!! in reply to howdy1960, 01-24-2014 21:04:18  
Well, I really have nothing to lose by attempting a rebuild. Who knows, I may get lucky and be successful! If not I will have to figure out a way to modify the mount and install an after market cylinder......I guess the next move is to take it apart. I have done a lot of mechanical things but have never taken apart a hyd cyl before. Any help, advice or tips would be appreciated!!
Thanks guy!!!

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ZANE

01-24-2014 18:58:15
98.83.60.67



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 Re: no hydraulic cylinders!!! in reply to wmiller, 01-24-2014 13:27:55  
First though I would pull the cap off the cylinder and see what kind of seal it has on the piston. Does'nt seem to be leaking outside???

If it hsa the old Chevron type packing you can probably have the piston fixed in a machine shop to accept O ring seals. When that one was made O rings probably were not invented yet.

Zane



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ZANE

01-24-2014 18:55:03
98.83.60.67



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 Re: no hydraulic cylinders!!! in reply to wmiller, 01-24-2014 13:27:55  
Go to Surplus Center or Northern Hydraulics and get one that will work. Measure the full length and the stroke.

Zane



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Bob

01-24-2014 15:56:40
64.255.159.192



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 Re: no hydraulic cylinders!!! in reply to wmiller, 01-24-2014 13:27:55  
What is wrong/broken/non-repairable on the cylinder you have?



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wmiller

01-24-2014 16:45:30
24.114.41.163



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 Re: no hydraulic cylinders!!! in reply to Bob, 01-24-2014 15:56:40  

heres a few pics of the real thing.

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wmiller

01-24-2014 16:30:56
24.114.41.163



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 Re: no hydraulic cylinders!!! in reply to Bob, 01-24-2014 15:56:40  
The cylinder is actually quite functional. It leaks a little bit, but that I can live with that.
When there's a load in the bucket, it creeps down so you have to constantly feather the controller to keep from dumping your load. Course every time you do that it robs significant power from the motor. It becomes a very orchestrated manoeuver and is no doubt hard on the equipment. I have been living with it for awhile now, but it lately seems to be getting worse, so I thought I would finally fix it.

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Bob

01-24-2014 19:06:41
64.255.159.192



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 Re: no hydraulic cylinders!!! in reply to wmiller, 01-24-2014 16:30:56  
Baum Hydraulics in Omaha, (402) 345-4122 will have any possible seal or packing that could be in that cylinder.

Likely, it used some type of rubberized fabric/graphited packing.

That setup is pretty forgiving of scratches or imperfections in the bore or on the rod, vs. modern "O" rings.

The Baum folks can likely fix you up with a standard replacement packing, or an extra tough type.



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old

01-24-2014 18:11:17
209.86.226.40



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 Re: no hydraulic cylinders!!! in reply to wmiller, 01-24-2014 16:30:56  
A good and note I said good Hyds shop would be able to rebuild that cylinder. Most likely reason the bucket creeps down is a bad piston seal in the hyd cylinder or a bad control valve



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TheOldHokie

01-24-2014 14:54:36
71.176.181.213



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 Re: no hydraulic cylinders!!! in reply to wmiller, 01-24-2014 13:27:55  

wmiller said: (quoted from post at 17:27:55 01/24/14) OK, so further to my getting a replacement hyd cyl for the Dearborn loader.....CANT GET ONE!!!

thought this shop I went to the other day could hook me up, but they cant.
So now I am left with a bucket cylinder that leaks and hold no pressure. Can you still get parts for these old cylinders? (loader is a Dearborn 19-23) I don't thin it would be too difficult to rebuild one of these providing the piston and cylinder itself isn't scratched.
The old cylinder itself is structural to the frame of the loader so it would be very difficult to just fit an after market cylinder in its place.
any thoughts as to what to do here guys? anyone rebuild one of these cylinders? Need help....loaders dead in the water.


Yep - the 19-23 had a trunion mounted bucket cylinder that is a royal PITA to match. The parts diagram below is the 19-42 which used two of the suckers - not quite the same but similar setup and probably the same cylinder. Your choices are rebuild the old one, have someone fabricate a trunion for mounting an OTS cylinder. or redo the whole cylinder mounting scheme.

TOH


This post was edited by TheOldHokie at 14:57:39 01/24/14.

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wmiller

01-24-2014 14:52:17
216.37.116.53



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 Re: no hydraulic cylinders!!! in reply to wmiller, 01-24-2014 13:27:55  
Issue is not trying to find one that is the right size. Its figuring out how to mount it to the loader. The cylinder kind of just floats on the pivot point that is on the bucket, the only other spot that it is attached to is a few inches right below that point. Here it is held in place by 2, 1 inch diameter pins that hold the top of the cylinder to the loader. The top of the cylinder where these pins go into is part of the actual structure of the cylinder housing. I don't know how else you would attach a standard cylinder without building or machining a special bracket. I'll see if I can take a picture and send it

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old

01-24-2014 15:31:35
209.86.226.32



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 Re: no hydraulic cylinders!!! in reply to wmiller, 01-24-2014 14:52:17  
Ok I see your problem then. I have a loader on my 8N that has that type of set up and yep there hard to find if you can find them at all. My loader is a Deer-Born 19-71



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old

01-24-2014 14:22:34
209.86.226.58



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 Re: no hydraulic cylinders!!! in reply to wmiller, 01-24-2014 13:27:55  
Measure the cylinder center to center of the pin holes. Do that closed up and extended. Then with that info try the surplus center. You do not have to have an exact match just very close and it does not have to look like the one it has now. If your working with 2 cylinder it is better to replace both so thy are a matched set in case they are a bit longer or shorter

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indiana george

01-26-2014 07:41:16
76.16.114.221



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 Re: no hydraulic cylinders!!! in reply to old, 01-24-2014 14:22:34  
Hello there old,I have a question for you.Is the deer- born loader made by john deere?Never heard of this loader before.



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old

01-26-2014 08:23:42
209.86.226.54



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 Re: no hydraulic cylinders!!! in reply to indiana george, 01-26-2014 07:41:16  
Deer Born was a division of Ford



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TheOldHokie

01-26-2014 08:11:29
71.176.181.213



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 Re: no hydraulic cylinders!!! in reply to indiana george, 01-26-2014 07:41:16  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

I am not Old but the Model 19-71 loader was made by Dearborn Equipment Company - the tractor implements and accessories division of Ford Motor Company.

TOH



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old

01-26-2014 08:25:27
209.86.226.54



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 Re: no hydraulic cylinders!!! in reply to TheOldHokie, 01-26-2014 08:11:29  
Have one of those and boy oh boy is it fun NOT to get on with the back hoe one behind it



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Jimmyjack

01-24-2014 14:14:27
216.105.208.2



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 Re: no hydraulic cylinders!!! in reply to wmiller, 01-24-2014 13:27:55  
Did you try various hydraulic outlets like Surplus Center? I cant believe you cant replace that cylinder somewhere. there are thousands of sizes and I havent found one I couldnt replace somewhere. Put the size down here and I bet someone will respond.



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