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1952 8n w/ 12v generator

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carltonwebb

07-26-2013 21:41:18




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Last weekend, I found a good deal on this tractor. It had an almost rollover new box blade, decent 4 ft rotary, and a 4 ft disc with it.

Sheet metal all good and not terribly rusted. A good wash and it will look pretty good to be a 1952. It did not run. Today I drained the gas, cleaned out the fuel shutoff so gas would pass, and filed the points. The wiring is a little on the hacked up side where the ignition switch should be.

In place of the ignition sw on the lower left under the ammeter is an off/on toggle. On the other side, where i think, the proof meter should be, is a rocker switch that I think was for the headlights but they are not present. Those are the only things missing. I thought the ignition switch on these were just under the side of the hood but maybe those are just the jubilee tractors.
This tractor is a 12 v conversion but has a 12 v generator (marked 12v). I have no power to either the regulator or the generator. Does anyone know if this wiring would be the same as the ones for the 6v generators? Or is there another schematic someone knows about? I have wired jubilee tractors with the one wire gm style alt. but figured if this one works, I would re-wire it. I tried to find out through the search and did not find it.

But Happy times , I ran heavy welding jumper cables from my 250 to the tractor. My heavy jump box was dead. Anyway, since the toggle ign switch is all hacked up, i ran jumpers to power up the distributor (well the resistor block) and the other hacked up wires at that toggle, and she spun over a few times and fired right off. Oil psi gauge is not accurate as it sits at about 50 when the tractor is off but did move up to 80 or so while running. It sounded good. The lift will almost bring the rotary cutter off the ground but stops. Fluid is yucky so maybe a good cleanout will fix? I did engage pto and rotary engaged and the 1st and rev worked good too as far as i dared go without a real battery.

On batteries, what size are y'all using for those. I am really excited to get one tomorrow and fix the wiring and take it for a spin now that I heard it run. I need to free up the choke butterfly too. I only put out 700 for it and the implements. I figured the implements and the sheet metal would cover the cost if the engine was bad when i bought it

Thanks in advance for anyone that helps out.. :D :D

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DollarBill

08-05-2013 01:30:12




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 Re: 1952 8n w/ 12v generator in reply to carltonwebb, 07-26-2013 21:41:18  
Glad you're onto a solution - Post back if you need help.



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carltonwebb

08-04-2013 19:42:20




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 Re: 1952 8n w/ 12v generator in reply to carltonwebb, 07-26-2013 21:41:18  
Today i dove off into the lift.

It appears to be mostly the draft control lever pin/linkage. The 4 bolts that hold all that together are shifted all the way back. If it reach in and grab the linkage engaging the pump or push on the draft control handle to make it wiggle a little, it will lift strong and nice. I have little leak from the cylinder inside but very little. Its hard to tell if its the nasty oil or the cylinder but i am going to order the stuff to fix it all next weekend.
I am going to try to adjust the brakes next weekend too and see if they will stop a little stronger. They do look wet on the back of the hubs so we will see. I will probably have to rebuild them though.

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DollarBill

07-29-2013 01:28:13




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 Re: 1952 8n w/ 12v generator in reply to carltonwebb, 07-26-2013 21:41:18  
There are a couple of other locations to check that will help identify the age of your tractor. The hydraulic pump and trumpets have unencoded date markings.

Other items with date indicators include:
Cylinder Head - Between the #2 and #3 plug holes

Oil pan -Bottom

Transmission case - Right side, forward, down low

Rear end housing - Left side under PTO shaft, upside down

Engine - Starter bump out

These date markings are coded. "A250" would break out to Jan 25 1950.

Legend

Month - A=Jan, B=Feb, etc.
Day - one or two digit number

Year - one digit number

The late 52 thick wall lift arms may have been changed over sometime during its life.

Another clue would be the serial number stamped into the block - Does it have diamonds or stars? The thin sheet metal sleeves were replaced at S/N 433578.

Good idea to work on one thing at a time - Lift problems could be several things but you will need the tractor running to properly diagnose it.

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carltonwebb

07-28-2013 13:24:04




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 Re: 1952 8n w/ 12v generator in reply to carltonwebb, 07-26-2013 21:41:18  
http://s1322.photobucket.com/user/Carlton_Webb/library/8n

i think you may be right. Today i took the carb off and cleaned it up. It has he marvel carb on it still. I need to get the internal bowl gasket for it but i did put it back together and it runs better. The tag on the side of it where the pin for to choke butterfly has a 49 on it. I as able to get the s/n an found it to be 8n432061 which i think makes it a 51. It does have the proof meter dash. I am going to recheck s/n in a littlebit and make sure the 3 is not really an 8. I am not sure about the lift arms so i posted that pic too.

I think you are right about the switch. I have power to the batt wire now on the regulator. The switch has a wire that comes off it and goes to the black wire on the generator. I posted a pic of it and there is also a link in this reply. I have not washed the tractor and have been scared to run it too much until i get the new fuel line for the carb. Leaking right on top of engine and exhaust. I do not know if it will show up in the pics but they Generator has a stamp of NTP on it and then 07. That is the stamp of a local rebuilder and where i would have taken it to have it built.
In your experience, would you say if it tries to lift and stops with the weight of the load, it is prob the cylinder? I figured once i got it running, i would pull the side covers and check for leaks but one thing at a time. I just like to think ahead.

The only other thing i am second guessing myself on is I have this hooked up as a neg ground 12v. I think this is correct but would anyone disagree?[/img]
This post was edited by carltonwebb at 13:27:31 07/28/13 3 times.

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JMOR

07-28-2013 13:52:04




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 Re: 1952 8n w/ 12v generator in reply to carltonwebb, 07-28-2013 13:24:04  
I see the NTP marking on the generator but not the 12v marking? Pos or neg ground? It came from factory as POS ground, BUT it is clearly not "factory" with 12v battery & generator and whether 6v or 12v, it is a simple matter of swapping battery cables & polarizing the generator & reversing ammeter to make all function just as well either way. Some would throw in 'reverse coil' too, but that is a "don't care" as it runs the same either way.

Also, you say, "The switch has a wire that comes off it and goes to the black wire on the generator.". The black wire on gen is generator case ground. A switch typically has 2 wires or more, so what about the other switch wire?
This post was edited by JMOR at 14:18:06 07/28/13.

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carltonwebb

07-28-2013 14:33:43




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 Re: 1952 8n w/ 12v generator in reply to JMOR, 07-28-2013 13:52:04  
I came back to edit it. Originally, i thought they were using the original headlight switch location for the ignition switch. The mystery switch in the proofmeter hole must be for headlights which i do not have right now. I traced the wires again and they go to across the top of the engine and then to each side where the headlight should mount. Its strapped to the same wires as the generator. It is a different gauge wire than the black one on the generator. That is the only cobbled up mess on it. I think next weekend when i get back, i will pull the hood completely off. It will allow me to get all the acorns and straw out of there and see all the wires really well. The voltage regulator has ants coming out of it so I think it is probably toast.
I am going to order the parts i know i need tonight (fuel line, carb gasket, oil filler cap etc) and I hope they will be here by next friday and i can actually drive it across the field.
I will get a better pic of the markings on the gen and add it to the album. I cannot get the fuel to completely shutoff with the valve so I guess i will look at getting a replacement fuel shutoff too. It would not be that big of deal if it were not for the pin hole in the fuel line.
This post was edited by carltonwebb at 14:35:58 07/28/13 2 times.

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carltonwebb

07-28-2013 20:10:58




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 Re: 1952 8n w/ 12v generator in reply to carltonwebb, 07-28-2013 14:33:43  
i added the gen marking picture to the original album.
It says:

NTP "nash truck parts=local rebuilder"

007 "2007"

12v.

It is completely possible all it is wrong is the regulator or i missed a wire. The black wire in the middle of that picture is the one i pulled down when tracing the mystery switch that should go the headlight. The mystery switch as 3 wires on it-b+, common and ground for the light in the switch. It is one of the rocker type switches with the light in it like a wrecker would have to show you its on.
This post was edited by carltonwebb at 20:14:21 07/28/13.

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JMOR

07-28-2013 20:31:33




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 Re: 1952 8n w/ 12v generator in reply to carltonwebb, 07-28-2013 20:10:58  
From what I can see of it, it has the outward appearance of an 8N10001 generator & probably stamped 12v because rebuilder changed out field coils & maybe armature to convert it to 12v. Any indication as to it being a 12v VR?



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carltonwebb

08-02-2013 19:08:27




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 Re: 1952 8n w/ 12v generator in reply to JMOR, 07-28-2013 20:31:33  


Its friday so that means i returned home and worked with the tractor today after completing the other chores.

I got my box of parts and have everything installed except the proof meter b/c i wanted to wash the tractor first.

I got the key switch installed and everything seems to be working as it should. I have to remove the mystery headlight switch in the morning and wires and installed new wire to run headlights. It cranked in a half a turn with the new fuel line and carb gaskets. You can turn the throttle really low and it still will idle with that model a sound. The only thing i noticed is if you come down real fast with the throttle, it may hiccup and die sometimes.

I will look at other locations for s/n tomorrow as well

Back to the charging circuit, the voltage regulator is marked 12v. I did not get to go get another today but its pretty rusty and the tractor cuts off with the jump box removed. Will any 12 v voltage relay work?
There is no power to the generator wires. I just found how to test voltage regulator and going to do that in the morning. I have power going into the vr but nothing coming out.
This post was edited by carltonwebb at 19:09:01 08/02/13.

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JMOR

08-02-2013 20:47:09




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 Re: 1952 8n w/ 12v generator in reply to carltonwebb, 08-02-2013 19:08:27  
Its friday so that means i returned home and worked with the tractor today after completing the other chores.

I got my box of parts and have everything installed except the proof meter b/c i wanted to wash the tractor first.

I got the key switch installed and everything seems to be working as it should. I have to remove the mystery headlight switch in the morning and wires and installed new wire to run headlights. It cranked in a half a turn with the new fuel line and carb gaskets. You can turn the throttle really low and it still will idle with that model a sound. The only thing i noticed is if you come down real fast with the throttle, it may hiccup and die sometimes.

I will look at other locations for s/n tomorrow as well

Back to the charging circuit, the voltage regulator is marked 12v. I did not get to go get another today but its pretty rusty and the tractor cuts off with the jump box removed. Will any 12 v voltage relay work?
There is no power to the generator wires. I just found how to test voltage regulator and going to do that in the morning. I have power going into the vr but nothing coming out.[/quote:6378080941]No, not any 12v voltage regulator will work. If your generator is, as was the original, the TYPE_A unit, then it must uses a TYPE_A VR. If it is a TYPE_B unit then it must use a TYPE_B VR.

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carltonwebb

08-03-2013 18:38:16




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 Re: 1952 8n w/ 12v generator in reply to JMOR, 08-02-2013 20:47:09  
Before doing the charging tests, I took the meter and checked the large termininal to ground. It had only 50 ohms resistance. According to the test procedure i found, if you hook the batt term to the arm terminal at the VR, it should increase in voltage which it did not. It dropped in voltage and the big terminal got warm to the touch. I am going to take it back to the local rebuilder this week and have him go through it.

Its unreal how much oil psi this tractor has. The new gauge they sent me only goes to 60 psi. The old one that did not work was an 80 psi. It will max out the gauge with oil psi at full throttle, even hot.

All the gears work as they should. The clutch may be a little weak but its been a while since i have been on a total mechanical clutch. The left brake works ok. The right brake does not work at all. I will have to check into that. With the new proofmeter installed, it will idle all the way down to around 350 with that model a sound.
Tomorrow is lift day. I bought a psi relief valve to put in. The lift will raise really fast until it gets the weight of the bushhog on it and it stops. Hopefully, the relief valve will fix it but I will look in there for leaks tomorrow.

My s/n is 8n432061 with stars on each end. I did look at that but it got dark before i made it to the other locations to look.
This post was edited by carltonwebb at 18:41:40 08/03/13 2 times.

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DollarBill

07-28-2013 02:00:30




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 Re: 1952 8n w/ 12v generator in reply to carltonwebb, 07-26-2013 21:41:18  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

I wonder if that's controlled by the mystery switch where the Proofmeter used to be.

As you can see in JMOR's most excellent wiring diagram that battery voltage comes off the distribution terminal directly to the voltage regulator by way of the solid yellow wire.



Soundguy gave you good advise on wiring specifics - Both the generator and voltage regulator should be marked and all you have to do is match them up.

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carltonwebb

07-27-2013 20:18:02




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 Re: 1952 8n w/ 12v generator in reply to carltonwebb, 07-26-2013 21:41:18  
dollarbill, thank you for posting that picture of your tractor. the only wiring that is messed up is where the ignition switch should be. I missed that hole the switch mounts in looking at yesterday. I was looking for it on the side like the jubilee. Its hard to find pics of the dash area that are closeups from when i tried to google the dash.
I am missing the proof meter and i am not totally sure what the switch that is there goes too. Someone filled that hole in with a piece of sheetmetal and installed a rocker switch I will have to trace the wires too.

I will take pics of the generator tomorrow. It looks just like the original 6v gen but is marked 12v. It has one bigger wire on the back and 2 smaller wires on the top.

I did not get to work on it today like i wanted too. I stayed up too late researching things about the tractor and lift and got a late start. I did crank it but i noticed in the daylight that the fuel line is cracked and leaking right on the exhaust manifold. Maybe i dislodged some rust yesterday on in it when i disassembled the fuel shutoff valve.
I tried to read the s/n on it but cannot see anything there. Its does appear to have late 52 lift arms on it but i have to doublecheck that against the pic where i saw that.

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soundguy

07-27-2013 15:24:43




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 Re: 1952 8n w/ 12v generator in reply to carltonwebb, 07-26-2013 21:41:18  
vregs and genny are foolproof to wire.

match up arm ( sometimes called gen )

match up field

match up ground if it has a spot for it.



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DollarBill

07-27-2013 01:53:42




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 Re: 1952 8n w/ 12v generator in reply to carltonwebb, 07-26-2013 21:41:18  
Welcome to the wonderful world of old Ford tractors!!



Original location for Ignition & Headlight Switches

Without knowing exactly which generator you have installed, it would be a shot in the dark to give wiring advise - Photo or more info in the way of terminals and their location.

For 12 volt battery recommendation - Whatever will fit in the battery box - Take your measurements with you to Wal Mart.

You got a steal of a deal for $700.00!!!!

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