8N transmission locked up.

hotdawg22 · Jul 7, 2013

I need some hands on prior experienced expert advice on this tractor and have had good luck on this forum before, so here goes.
I bought this 8N that the trans was locked up on. Went to smiths old tractors and followed his advice and I was then able to put all shifters back into neutral or so it seems.
The thing is still locked up. Nothing will move it.
I can turn the engine by hand using big screwdriver thru the timing hole in the housing. However, while it did take the pressure off enough for me to put the shifter arms all in the neutral position the tractor just will not budge.
I can turn the engine backwards or forwards by the screwdriver method but it will only turn about a half revolution before it just stops, locks up and won"t go any further.
There is zero movement of the drive shaft between the transmission and the rear end.
Jacked up rearend and the wheels will turn in opposite directions.
Pulled shifter arms out of trans and can see that the shifters all seem to be in neutral but??
Does anyone have any idea or have had such trouble before and share the solution with me.

Royse · Jul 7, 2013

I've not had that problem, so I'm speculating here.
You say the engine will only turn 1/2 of a revolution?
Is that with the clutch engaged or disengaged? Both?
If the engine won't turn on it's own, probably not just a tranny problem.
Another thought, specially if it only does that when the clutch is engaged
and while you still have the tranny cover off, have you checked for a broken gear?

Bob · Jul 7, 2013

Possible broken and jammed ring gear and pinion teeth. BT,DT.

hotdawg22 · Jul 7, 2013

Yes i did try with the clutch engaged and that was when it would just turn so far. I went out now and pushed the clutch in and the motor turns freely, soooo it has to be in the trans.
The rear end won"t move and the limited movement i can get out of the trans is limited to the trans cause the driveshaft is absolutely frozen and will not move.
Soo, from what i am hearing it my be both the trans and the rear end locked up.
There were a couple of chipped teeth but nothing that would lock it up, or at least i dont think it would. I have checked all the gears that are moving for anything stuck in the teeth but nothing.
I don"t know the history of the tractor but i am now guessing that the guy that owned it tried to unlock it and just messed up more stuff.
Guess i will pull left axel etc tomorrow and see what the spider and pinion looks like.

Royse · Jul 7, 2013

"The rear end won"t move"

I thought you said when you jack it up the rear wheels turn.
Turning opposite directions would be normal.
Spin one forward, the other turns backwards.

JMOR · Jul 7, 2013

Guessing was a good word. IF the transmission is actually in neutral, then it would not matter, even if the drive shaft were welded to the housing, the transmission input shaft & clutch would still be free to spin.

Bob Harvey · Jul 7, 2013

Not clear to me. Is the trans shifter housing off ? Just having the 'gate' aligned doesn't mean the gears below are in the correct orientation. Have another look. Got the manual ?? HTH b

Anonymous-0 · Jul 7, 2013

Bob, when you find problem call me as I have several parts tractors. Jim in FL 813-six nine five 7039

hotdawg22 · Jul 7, 2013

I did. I jacked rear completely off the ground and the wheels spin in oposite directions, the drive shaft does not move.
I jacked up one side and tried to turn wheel but drive shaft will not move, not even a wiggle.
Locked up.

hotdawg22 · Jul 7, 2013

Yes, i got the shifter housing off, the shifting forks are out and the hydraulic cover is off and visably everything looks OK.

hotdawg22 · Jul 7, 2013

So in your opinion what do you think could be the problem as i have scrated my head on this one and can not figure what has happened and what is the solution. I hate like L to break all this down but guess i am going to hafta do dat.

hotdawg22 · Jul 7, 2013

OK. I think i might have answered this but here again. I did try to turn engine without engaged clutch and engine spun freely. Let clutch out and it actually turns less the 1/2 turn in either direction and locks up. Took out the forks and made sure the slide were not in 2 gears and still the same thing.
Suspected that a broken tooth lodged in the cogs was to blame but discounted that when it locks in both directions, highly unlikely that broken tooth metal is lodged in two places causing the same block in both directions???

hotdawg22 · Jul 7, 2013

This is hotdawg22 and am interested in your parts. Email me with what you have and prices.
thankls

hotdawg22 · Jul 7, 2013

You know, i just thought of something and you may have the answer. If the trans is locked up for what ever reason, could that also lock the differential into position giving the illusion that it was locked up too??
I mean, if the output shaft fron the trans to the drive shaft was locked would that not also keep the differential from turning?

Royse · Jul 7, 2013

(quoted from post at 23:26:36 07/07/13) This is hotdawg22 and am interested in your parts. Email me with what you have and prices.
thankls

What parts are you wanting to buy?
As far as I can tell we don't know what's wrong yet.
Rear end/differential turns, engine turns. Transmission does not. Yes?
Transmission is in gear, blocked or otherwise broken it would seem.
You have the cover off, have you drained the oil out so you can
really see what's in there and what may be in the bottom?
Are you absolutely sure its in neutral?
Can you post some pictures of what you're seeing?
A lot of times folks will glance at them and go "Oh, here it is".

JMOR · Jul 8, 2013

(quoted from post at 23:33:02 07/07/13) You know, i just thought of something and you may have the answer. If the trans is locked up for what ever reason, could that also lock the differential into position giving the illusion that it was locked up too??
I mean, if the output shaft fron the trans to the drive shaft was locked would that not also keep the differential from turning?

es & yes. Also on your "half turn" question, due to the fact that the ratio between meshing gears may be as much as 11:1 (low) or as little as 3:1 (4th gear), then it is clear that with a piece of tooth wedged in a particular gear, then 1/11th fwd to 1/11th back would see lock to lock. Similarly for 1/3 fwd & 1/3rd back.

hotdawg22 · Jul 8, 2013

Good point and i did not think of that. It would have to be one of the small gears at the bottom of trans that i can"t see without taking it apart so guess that is next move.
I will post what i found.

JMOR · Jul 8, 2013

Another thought: sounds like you bought it in this locked up condition. If so, then it could be that one or more of those gears that should be free to rotate on its shaft is not free (rust/corrosion/etc.). Roughly half of total gear count is free to rotate relative to shaft they ride on & the other half are fixed to & always rotate with shaft. Couplers all rotate with shaft they ride upon. Are you sure all 3 couplers are disengaged, i.e., in non-coupling neutral positions?

8N transmission locked up.

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