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Ford 9N, 2N & 8N Discussion Forum
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Re: point

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Author  [Modern View]

05-09-2013 17:22:04

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Not when you apply E=MC2. The larger the coil, the more EMF coming out of it with the same imput.

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05-10-2013 04:27:18

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 Re: point in reply to teddy52food, 05-09-2013 17:22:04  
I am a mathematician/physicist by training but I must have missed the class where they covered this application of E=mc2. My only experience with this formula was in a class on General Relativity and I don't recall anything in our discussion of General Relativity about how this relationship would be applied to the operation of a coil. We did however discuss EMF, inductance, and coils in a freshman class on Electricity and Magnetism. Can you give me a brief mathematical description of how Einstein's energy/mass equation is applied to explaining the behavior of a coil? Don't pull any punches with the mathematics - if I can't handle it I'll ask for additional tutoring.


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05-10-2013 09:07:39

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 Re: point in reply to TheOldHokie, 05-10-2013 04:27:18  
You didn't miss anything because conventional teaching doesn't explain it. I am not able to explain in a few sentances what is in a book. In my mind it is simple and obvious. If you are serious about it, get the book The Energy Machine Of Joseph Newman & study it for yourself.

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05-10-2013 05:42:08

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 Re: point in reply to TheOldHokie, 05-10-2013 04:27:18  
Here is an example from the E&M section of my trusty Halliday and Resnick demonstrating how coil energy is computed using simple inductance. What I'm looking for is something similar from you showing how it would be done using Einstein's relativistic mass/energy relationship (e=mc2).
A coil has an inductance (L) of 5.0 henrys and a resistance (R) of 20 ohms. If a 100 volt emf (E) is applied what energy (U) is stored in the magnetic field after current has built to it's maximum?

Maximum current: i = E/R = 100 volts/20 ohms = 5.0 amps Stored energy: U = 1/2Li2(5.0 henrys)(5.0 amps)2 = 63 joules
Also note that the total energy stored by the coil is less than the total energy input by the power source - some of that energy is lost as heat due to the electrical resistance of the coil. (First Law of Thermodynamics)


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Indiana Ken

05-11-2013 06:04:29

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 Re: point in reply to TheOldHokie, 05-10-2013 05:42:08  
Mr, TOH: Oh yes - the Halliday and Resnick, Chapter 32, page 604. I also enjoyed your post of the NBS report on the Newman device.

Nice job

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05-11-2013 14:43:21

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 Re: point in reply to Indiana Ken, 05-11-2013 06:04:29  

Indiana Ken said: (quoted from post at 09:04:29 05/11/13) Mr, TOH: Oh yes - the Halliday and Resnick, Chapter 32, page 604. I also enjoyed your post of the NBS report on the Newman device.

Nice job

Thank you. My personal copy of Halliday and Resnick is the 1960 edition purchased for my freshman year in B'burg and that particular problem may be found in Chapter 36, pp 909 of that edition. I came on board at NBS in 4/87 so I missed the Newman tests but I hung on for another 25 years. Lots of good experiences there and a great opportunity to learn what I don't know from world class scientists.
This post was edited by TheOldHokie at 14:45:38 05/11/13.

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05-10-2013 13:34:55

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 Re: point in reply to TheOldHokie, 05-10-2013 05:42:08  
whoops.. I was wrong .. i postulated earlier that we had a few engineers and technicians here.. but maybee no physicists.

I was wrong. :)

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05-09-2013 19:14:12

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 Re: point in reply to teddy52food, 05-09-2013 18:51:31  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to seeHey, teddy.........I'm just going to help you out a little here........can you explain to these folks what the E and the M and the C stand for.... might help them, too.

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05-09-2013 19:29:42

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 Re: point in reply to JMOR, 05-09-2013 19:14:12  
E is energy, M is mass, C is the speed of light. It not only applies to fizzle physics and bombs but magnets too.

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